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Wew. Now Yama not scaling yeah.
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Bleach Revisions Part 3: Post-Timeskip (Fullbring, TYBW and CFYOW Novel) (Part 2)
- Thread starter USklaverei
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- bleach
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that's not a flaw though, it's logical powerscaling.
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You can though, make a thread discussing why the standard scaling is wrong. Going through each CRT and trying to convince each individual person of different scaling is ludicrous, surely it would be easier to just make a forum wide post discussing why the current scaling used by the Wiki is wrong.Damage3245 said:
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We have been using basic powerscaling since the dawn of time. We even have a ******* page dedicated to it but suddenly now its not usable. I can't.
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lol I typed in "via powerscaling" and found hundreds of profiles.
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@Sigurd; yes, and that's why it's such a big problem. You can't seriously be telling me that you're okay with hundreds of proifiles that don't explain what the powerscaling is, they just say "via powerscaling".
Also noticed that once again this has devolved to complaining about unfair treatement instead of focusing on any specific issue in AnonymousBlank's scaling.
Also noticed that once again this has devolved to complaining about unfair treatement instead of focusing on any specific issue in AnonymousBlank's scaling.
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Where did I even complain about unfair treatment recently lol? I feel like you're selectively reading my posts and disregarding 50% of what I say. It's not a matter of unfair treatment, we go by what the standard scaling is here, if you have an issue with the standard, don't attack the CRT, attack the wiki's form of scaling. Hence why I said you should make a thread discussing why the current scaling is flawed in general.
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@Damage
Sorry i'm not gonna sit here and act like there isn't some sort of double standard.
You're saying it's wrong, yet we have hundreds of profiles utilizing it from massively popular verses.
From a quick look alot of Pokemon and Digimon profiles scale "via powerscaling" "should be as strong as x"
Sorry i'm not gonna sit here and act like there isn't some sort of double standard.
You're saying it's wrong, yet we have hundreds of profiles utilizing it from massively popular verses.
From a quick look alot of Pokemon and Digimon profiles scale "via powerscaling" "should be as strong as x"
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More like if its been used why is it now an issue? Change the powerscaling page then.
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Mask isn't a god tier in anyway. I have no idea why you are equating speed with their standing in the verse. Renji's training made faster than Soifon by feats. Like I said, bring something that isn't your opinion.
Except Damage was never arguing superiority in any fashion but against it by asking for feats or statements that would let people scale. You know, what the scaling page says we need to scale characters.
I never said you did. Or am I not allowed to direct a paragraph to the general arguments of others? Soifon is the perfect example of your faulty reasoning.
Your entire argument hinges on "well they rank above these other people" and "well A was faster than B before so B should still be slower despite having better feats and nothing that puts them below A". Does Naruto being a Genin mean he can't scale higher than Chunin and Jonin? Guess Pain Kakashi is faster than Pain Naruto since he was faster before Sage Training. Don't even mention Naruto keeping up with Pain in base as a counter as that is the very same scaling I use that apparently goes against the standards of the wiki.
Except Damage was never arguing superiority in any fashion but against it by asking for feats or statements that would let people scale. You know, what the scaling page says we need to scale characters.
I never said you did. Or am I not allowed to direct a paragraph to the general arguments of others? Soifon is the perfect example of your faulty reasoning.
Your entire argument hinges on "well they rank above these other people" and "well A was faster than B before so B should still be slower despite having better feats and nothing that puts them below A". Does Naruto being a Genin mean he can't scale higher than Chunin and Jonin? Guess Pain Kakashi is faster than Pain Naruto since he was faster before Sage Training. Don't even mention Naruto keeping up with Pain in base as a counter as that is the very same scaling I use that apparently goes against the standards of the wiki.
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@Sigurd; can't fix everything at once.
@Purgy; if you think this is truly the standard that we should be operating at, then bring in some more staff.
@Purgy; if you think this is truly the standard that we should be operating at, then bring in some more staff.
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@Damage
Yeah you can, it's called making a crt which affects standards. Which will thus force people to fix the profiles based on new said standard if accepted.
Yeah you can, it's called making a crt which affects standards. Which will thus force people to fix the profiles based on new said standard if accepted.
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@Sigurd; can you point out where in the powerscaling page it states that "via powerscaling" is an acceptable justification?
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don't be silly now, you understand perfectly what i'm complaining about and you should know the protocol as a staff member regarding it.Damage3245 said:
Even One Piece has via powerscaling, a verse you're heavily associated with.
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@Sigurd; I've tried to remove some of those "via powerscaling" lines from several Naruto and One Piece profiles. Just haven't fixed all of them yet.
But can we please focus back on the actual revisions now? This is getting to the point of derailing.
But can we please focus back on the actual revisions now? This is getting to the point of derailing.
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@Sekkonds
This Ichigo feat is like low mach speeds I think crossing this distance in that time.
This Ichigo feat is like low mach speeds I think crossing this distance in that time.
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Ichigo isn't mentioned in any of the accepted lowballed calcs about the distance,what is assumed to be that low is normal shinigami shunbo for 7 daysSigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Ichigo went in his top speed
Lille>>>>that speed even if it's only travel speed that would be atleast FTL
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@Sekkonds
Well...
Ichigo crossed 88905600 m in 9 hours and 15mins I think which comes out to mach 7.7
Sure he scales higher, but i'm sure some people would argue his travel speed is lower based off the calc.
Well...
Ichigo crossed 88905600 m in 9 hours and 15mins I think which comes out to mach 7.7
Sure he scales higher, but i'm sure some people would argue his travel speed is lower based off the calc.
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@Sekkonds; Lille only fell that fast while he was in pieces after being destroyed by his attack. I don't think we can scale that his normal speed.
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I know Mask isn't a god tier, I'm glad we agree on that. I'm equating speed to standing in the verse due to that's how it's always been, as I said either in the last thread or very early in this one, I can't recall a single instance where somebody was able to physically overpower their opponent whilst simultaneously being blitzed by their opponent, it just doesn't happen, speed and AP usually go hand in hand. Stop mentioning Soifon, my issue isn't with her it's with Renji being assumed the fastest in the verse and that nobody can be faster than him because they didn't fight him and your form of scaling in general.
By asking for feats you're literally disregarding how superiority works in terms of scaling, again the Soul King example shows this nicely, if we disregard the fact that he's the supreme being of Bleach then we now have to assume he's slower than Nanao and Omaeda which is ridiculous, but since he doesn't have any speed feats of his own and hasn't fought anybody with speed feats, we have two choices, scale him based on his rank and placement in the verse or give him an unknown rating, the issue with giving him an unknown rating is that this wiki tries to avoid giving characters unknown ratings where at all possible, so it's logical to go with the former option.
You were telling me to explain why Soifon should scale, I didn't even mention Soifon once hence you're strawmanning.
Except that isn't my entire argument, it's just part of it. Part of my argument was that the Captains should scale to and above Nanao who is by all accounts just a Lieutenant, Renji at least is a Lieutenant with Captain level Reiryoku and has consistently been demonstrated to be comparable to some Captains, Nanao has literally nothing going for her and there is zero reason as to why people shouldn't scale to her. Using Naruto in your example doesn't really work, he's the protagonist and at this point in the series the story didn't focus on him taking the Chunin exams to be promoted, he's also academically a moron at this point, which is one of the requirements for being promoted through the Shinobi Ranks, it's not the same as Bleach Captains and Leiutenants, you can also only become a Chunin from the Chunin Exams, which Naruto only participated in once (Atleast prior to his fight with Pain) so it's no wonder he didn't get promoted. Hence you're using a false equivalency here.
By asking for feats you're literally disregarding how superiority works in terms of scaling, again the Soul King example shows this nicely, if we disregard the fact that he's the supreme being of Bleach then we now have to assume he's slower than Nanao and Omaeda which is ridiculous, but since he doesn't have any speed feats of his own and hasn't fought anybody with speed feats, we have two choices, scale him based on his rank and placement in the verse or give him an unknown rating, the issue with giving him an unknown rating is that this wiki tries to avoid giving characters unknown ratings where at all possible, so it's logical to go with the former option.
You were telling me to explain why Soifon should scale, I didn't even mention Soifon once hence you're strawmanning.
Except that isn't my entire argument, it's just part of it. Part of my argument was that the Captains should scale to and above Nanao who is by all accounts just a Lieutenant, Renji at least is a Lieutenant with Captain level Reiryoku and has consistently been demonstrated to be comparable to some Captains, Nanao has literally nothing going for her and there is zero reason as to why people shouldn't scale to her. Using Naruto in your example doesn't really work, he's the protagonist and at this point in the series the story didn't focus on him taking the Chunin exams to be promoted, he's also academically a moron at this point, which is one of the requirements for being promoted through the Shinobi Ranks, it's not the same as Bleach Captains and Leiutenants, you can also only become a Chunin from the Chunin Exams, which Naruto only participated in once (Atleast prior to his fight with Pain) so it's no wonder he didn't get promoted. Hence you're using a false equivalency here.
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Those pieces are him, he's a bird made of light.
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> Stop mentioning Soifon, my issue isn't with her it's with Renji being assumed the fastest in the verse and that nobody can be faster than him because they didnb't fight him and your form of scaling in general.
Good thing nobody is arguing that either...
> By asking for feats you're literally disregarding how superiority works in terms of scaling, again the Soul King example shows this nicely, if we disregard the fact that he's the supreme being of Bleach then we now have to assume he's slower than Nanao and Omaeda which is ridiculous
No, we don't have to.
What you're doing is pretty much the definition of a Strawman Argument.
> Part of my argument was that the Captains should scale to and above Nanao who is by all accounts just a Lieutenant
Since Lieutenants can be demonstrably faster than Captains, this argument doesn't hold any weight.
Good thing nobody is arguing that either...
> By asking for feats you're literally disregarding how superiority works in terms of scaling, again the Soul King example shows this nicely, if we disregard the fact that he's the supreme being of Bleach then we now have to assume he's slower than Nanao and Omaeda which is ridiculous
No, we don't have to.
What you're doing is pretty much the definition of a Strawman Argument.
> Part of my argument was that the Captains should scale to and above Nanao who is by all accounts just a Lieutenant
Since Lieutenants can be demonstrably faster than Captains, this argument doesn't hold any weight.
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By not scaling anybody above Renji you're essentially labeling him as the fastest in the verse, at least that's how I see it since we've already gone over people not needing to have fought each other to scale.
Explain how we don't have to and how I'm strawmanning.
Assuming you're referring to Renji, as I said, he's been consistently demonstrated as comparable to Captains, Nanao hasn't. Renji is an exception to the rule, that doesn't mean all Leiutenants and especially Nanao of all people should be aswell.
Explain how we don't have to and how I'm strawmanning.
Assuming you're referring to Renji, as I said, he's been consistently demonstrated as comparable to Captains, Nanao hasn't. Renji is an exception to the rule, that doesn't mean all Leiutenants and especially Nanao of all people should be aswell.
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@Sigurd This isn't about the distance everyone knows it's lowballed,it's about lille being higher than ichigo
@Damage People don't fall at FTL speeds,he turned into chiken men beams of light that went to SS and broke through seiretei barrier
Although kyoraku scaling to FTL mimihagi still holds
@Damage People don't fall at FTL speeds,he turned into chiken men beams of light that went to SS and broke through seiretei barrier
Although kyoraku scaling to FTL mimihagi still holds
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@Sekkonds; the scaling to Mimihagi doesn't work. Aizen stopped them with his Reiatsu; Shinsui didn't evade them.
And in Lille's case, yes, he did fall at extreme speeds. Lille hasn't demonstrated having that speed normally.
@Purgy; scaling a character's speed to Unknown does not mean you're scaling them to be slower than any other character.
And AnonymousBlank's proposal didn't say that nobody would be faster than Renji; he was just explainining the links between the characters for who would scale, or scale above.
And in Lille's case, yes, he did fall at extreme speeds. Lille hasn't demonstrated having that speed normally.
@Purgy; scaling a character's speed to Unknown does not mean you're scaling them to be slower than any other character.
And AnonymousBlank's proposal didn't say that nobody would be faster than Renji; he was just explainining the links between the characters for who would scale, or scale above.
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Unknown ratings should only be given when there is no other choice, so in this instance, I don't see the problem with scaling him above everybody else due to his superiority and standing in the verse.Damage3245 said:
That's my bad then, maybe I just misread his original post with the scaling, I apologize if that's truly not what he was going for.
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@Purgy
Damn and here I had a wall of text ready to go but this was all a misunderstanding. What a waste of time. But what Damage said. If people are confused by the scaling I posted above, this "->" means that they are at least relative to whoever is before them. The different bullet points is to separate the different chains where they split off as multiple people scale to characters and cause others to scale but not necessarily the same characters. My bad on not being more clear and assuming people should understand without explanation.
Damn and here I had a wall of text ready to go but this was all a misunderstanding. What a waste of time. But what Damage said. If people are confused by the scaling I posted above, this "->" means that they are at least relative to whoever is before them. The different bullet points is to separate the different chains where they split off as multiple people scale to characters and cause others to scale but not necessarily the same characters. My bad on not being more clear and assuming people should understand without explanation.
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Anyway, to give some feedback on the actual scaling AnonymousBlank; I think that Äs Nodt + Bazz-B would only scale in their Vollstandig forms.
Shikai Rukia was blitzing As Nodt until he transformed, and Bazz-B only fought Rukia and Renji with his Vollstandig active.
Shikai Rukia was blitzing As Nodt until he transformed, and Bazz-B only fought Rukia and Renji with his Vollstandig active.
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I agree on Vollstandig As as he clearly speed amps but do we have a comparison for Bazz? We know his base is faster than base As and he doesn't seem to show an amp afaik.
Also would we give Vollstandig speed amps the x5 and back scale from the Renji calc or leave them at whatever the Captains scaled to at the start of TYBW in the event the back scaling is value is higher?
Also would we give Vollstandig speed amps the x5 and back scale from the Renji calc or leave them at whatever the Captains scaled to at the start of TYBW in the event the back scaling is value is higher?
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@Anon
femritters were forcing Mayuri to use prep tactics to fight them, even forcing him to use tech to counter the explosions. If he was FTL to their Relativistic, he would blitz the F out of them and their bombs and their Zombies, yet he didn't
doesn't this sound iffy to you? by your scaling Mayuri will be in the same league with TS Ichigo,yet TS Ichigo Blitzes the F out of Femritters, and Mayuri is not even close to doing that
i get,that he has scaling from Pernida, but this sounds more like an outlier for Mayuri, than a feat
femritters were forcing Mayuri to use prep tactics to fight them, even forcing him to use tech to counter the explosions. If he was FTL to their Relativistic, he would blitz the F out of them and their bombs and their Zombies, yet he didn't
doesn't this sound iffy to you? by your scaling Mayuri will be in the same league with TS Ichigo,yet TS Ichigo Blitzes the F out of Femritters, and Mayuri is not even close to doing that
i get,that he has scaling from Pernida, but this sounds more like an outlier for Mayuri, than a feat
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Regarding Pernida seemingly scaling to Kenpachi, didn't both times that it attack were accomplished through borderline invisible nerve attacks which took him by surprise?
Mayuri definitely implies that Pernida's speed is not on Kenpachi's level at first since its nerves need to evolve to reach his state.
Mayuri definitely implies that Pernida's speed is not on Kenpachi's level at first since its nerves need to evolve to reach his state.
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Grimmjow has 1.29c (FTL) at the base of Blitzed Urahara, therefore, at the Resurrection, it rises to 6.45c (FTL).
Hikone base scale for Resurrección Grimmjow for having success with him and the others, being 6.45c (FTL).
Base Shinji can accompany Hikone, so he moves up to 6.45c (FTL) and with Hollowfication goes to 32.2c (FTL +).
That on the CFYOW key, in the arc of war, he must be at least Relativistic+ with Hollowfication.
Hikone base scale for Resurrección Grimmjow for having success with him and the others, being 6.45c (FTL).
Base Shinji can accompany Hikone, so he moves up to 6.45c (FTL) and with Hollowfication goes to 32.2c (FTL +).
That on the CFYOW key, in the arc of war, he must be at least Relativistic+ with Hollowfication.
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Sorry if this is slightly off topic, though it's to do with scaling so I think it will be okay, but anyways, was the scene where Ichigo blitzed the Quincy girls ever calc'ed? When he crashes into the tower and then is in front of Kenpachi before it can even register in their minds? I always wondered how fast he would be going there, but I don't really know where to look to see if it was answered before.
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So, it means, Shikai Ginjo(CFYOW) also have 1.29c?Also, if multipliers for upgraded arrancars is 5x, should they have 6-A in ressurection? We already know, that they in base much stronger than base femritters(who can't even scratch Hikone).USklaverei said:
And again about Ginjo, he should be "possible" high 6-A , for his feats in novel(have a chances versus Hikone), yes?
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@AnonymousBlank; I know you've done a lot already, but for the characters you've listed in the speed scaling up above can you write out their ratings and justifications as the next step?
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They were at the Resurrección, so there is no way to be 6-A.Baldurgate said:
The thing about Ginjo may be, since he mentions that he would have a chance and the rest were just Kenpachi, Ichigo and Aizen.
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Nah. They beat Hikone in base.
Hikone damaged Grimm's arm--> Grim entered ressurection--> Ikomikidomoe opened Garganta and they run away.
Oh, good about Ginjo. Thx.
Hikone damaged Grimm's arm--> Grim entered ressurection--> Ikomikidomoe opened Garganta and they run away.
Oh, good about Ginjo. Thx.
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The Hikone who fought Grimmjow should not be the same one that lost to Hisagi. Hisagi won't be scaling to Shikai Kenpachi in durability with his bankai. Hikone became stronger overtime, so the most you can scale Hikone to is Hallibel from Arrancar arc.
EDIT: I'm referring to the first key to base Hikone before the final battle against Tokinada.
EDIT: I'm referring to the first key to base Hikone before the final battle against Tokinada.
