Bleach Revisions Part 3: Post-Timeskip (Fullbring, TYBW and CFYOW Novel) (Part 2)

[Purgy]

"Getting a group of Bleach fans together to agree with massive upgrades"

What was even the point in saying this? It achieves absolutely nothing and it was just a cheap way of trying to discredit the fact that the overwhelming majority agree with the original scaling instead of your scaling. I understand your scaling Damage but I disagree with it, mostly due to the fact that it's completely devoid of logic in my opinion, I'm not just saying this in hopes of Bleach receiving a few upgrades, rather I'm saying it because it's what I believe to be most accurate.

 

[USklaverei]

@USklaverei; I already left a comment responding to several points in your proposed scaling to Renji, and that went mostly unanswered.

I didn't answer because you are just going to ignore it and force your interpretation, so I'm telling you to do your scale.
So far, you haven't even given an idea for the solution, you've just postponed it.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

My interpretation of for example Shunsui saying Nanao can keep up with her is that she can keep up with his speed. And I asked several people about it like IMade who knows the series like the back of their heads. I even asked Xulrev about it.

Your interpretation of this simple statement is

What's the wind velocity?

What's the starting distance?

How far did they travel?

Wait at those speeds Seireitei would be millions of KM!!

How do we know she was right behind him?

 

[Damage3245]

> What was even the point in saying this? It achieves absolutely nothing and it was just a cheap way of trying to discredit the fact that the overwhelming majority agree with the original scaling instead of your scaling.

It's just an accurate summary of the current picture. It's pointless to say that the majority of people agree with the original scaling and not mine; because the majority of people participating in the thread anyway are all Bleach supporters.

@Sigurd; the problem is not just the statement by itself, it is then going on to say that Nanao has FTL combat speed, so therefore everyone else does to, just because she's a Vice Captain.

So yeah, a single statement with no supportive feats isn't very convincing.

@USklaverei; the solution is to deal with the characters who don't scale to Renji first. If we can't agree on those, how can we agree on the characters who do scale to Renji?

 

[USklaverei]

Those who do not climb are totally useless, since if you are going to name everyone you will have to make it for more than half of the cast, DO ONE FOR WHOM SCALE and stop rolling.

 

[Purgy]

> What was even the point in saying this? It achieves absolutely nothing and it was just a cheap way of trying to discredit the fact that the overwhelming majority agree with the original scaling instead of your scaling.
It's just an accurate summary of the current picture. It's pointless to say that the majority of people agree with the original scaling and not mine; because the majority of people participating in the thread anyway are all Bleach supporters.

So that means their opinions are now invalid lol? I mean, you're just calling people who disagree with you Bleach supporters, by the same logic I can just call you a Bleach hater and disregard your arguments like you're trying to do.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Because Shunpo is a combat skill and is used to get around the massive Seireitei And used for combat as well?

Obviously which is where the logic seems to crumble for you. You've never seen someone superior scale to relative fodder before? Although im not surprised since you did suggest earlier the supreme being should be rated unknown in speed lol.

 

[Damage3245]

@Sigurd; if a character has no feats, no statements, and no characters that they can be scaled to directly, then an Unknown speed rating sounds fine to me.

@Purgy; opinions are not invalid, but opinions alone aren't going to be what determines the ratings on the profiles.

The arguments are not being disregarded because they're presented by Bleach supporters, but because they're faulty or devoid of logic.

My point is that saying "Well, all the Bleach supporters on the thread think they're okay" is not a supportive argument for why they should be accepted.

 

[AppleLord]

Hey, guys, let's be more civil about this and stop treating Damage3245 so badly. He is willing to help with this procedure and remember that he took time off to come here and help us with some "fictional characters" so let's not be ungrateful. If you don't agree with his measures try to explain more civilized in an answer that makes sense with scans to back up thy arguments.

 

[Purgy]

@Sigurd; if a character has no feats, no statements, and no characters that they can be scaled to directly, then an Unknown speed rating sounds fine to me.
@Purgy; opinions are not invalid, but opinions alone aren't going to be what determines the ratings on the profiles.

The arguments are not being disregarded because they're presented by Bleach supporters, but because they're faulty or devoid of logic.

My point is that saying "Well, all the Bleach supporters on the thread think they're okay" is not a supportive argument for why they should be accepted.

It is when it's our only choice, you disagree with the original scaling and the majority disagree with your scaling, you're not going to change your mind so at this point all we can do is go by majority. Either that or we just continue disagreeing with each other until the topic becomes forgotten or the thread gets closed.

 

[MetalGearRaiden]

why do we act like post RG shikai renji is Top tier,again?

if it made no sense to scale him to top tier captains before, why do we act like he is some sort of milestone,that only top/god tiers should scale to?

 

[Damage3245]

@Purgy; that is not the only choice. You haven't even got a single staff member who supports the proposed ratings yet.

@MetalGearRaiden; you do know that Renji currently has the absolute best speed feat in the entire verse, assuming we do treat his FTL feat as being legit.

 

[Purgy]

@MetalGearRaiden I'd imagine it's because Damage doesn't want to so many FTL characters in the verse, I don't think he ever had an issue with the Captains scaling to and above Renji before. Renji is apparently a God tier now even though everybody except Damage knows he isn't.

 

[Purgy]

@Purgy; that is not the only choice. You haven't even got a single staff member who supports the proposed ratings yet.

I can't force staff members to post here, this is the 2nd thread and it's almost half way through, if no staff members other than yourself have posted you have to wonder if they're just avoiding Bleach related threads.

 

[Damage3245]

@Purgy; I wouldn't be surprised at that. Naruto and Bleach have tended to garner a huge number of bad threads in the past, so eventually staff members just started avoiding them more and more.

How many staff members have you asked to participate?

 

[MetalGearRaiden]

@Purgy; that is not the only choice. You haven't even got a single staff member who supports the proposed ratings yet.
@MetalGearRaiden; you do know that Renji currently has the absolute best speed feat in the entire verse, assuming we do treat his FTL feat as being legit.

his feat is "the best" only cause other light dodging feats were dismissed,and haters simply couldn't debunk Mask's Light.

nowhere in story is Renji stated to be extremely fast , to the point of blitzing captains

also,both Mimihagi and Yhwach do have some possible FTL calcs as well, depending on how do we treat SS to SKP distance

 

[Purgy]

@Purgy; I wouldn't be surprised at that. Naruto and Bleach have tended to garner a huge number of bad threads in the past, so eventually staff members just started avoiding them more and more.
How many staff members have you asked to participate?

None, honestly when the thread was first created I kinda just thought staff members would post on their own given it being a Bleach thread, which is a fairly popular verse, but I guess not. If staff members aren't interested in this thread, I don't think it would be fair for me to go around wasting their time asking them to read through it.

At this point though, the whole thing just seems pointless, you're clearly not going to change your mind and neither are myself and the others arguing for the original scaling, we're at an impasse.

 

[Damage3245]

Users being at an impasse with each other is exactly when more staff members need to be asked to participate.

 

[AppleLord]

Purgy if you do not ask for help no one is gonna know that you are injured or sick. Same with this. If you need input kindly ask staff members to verify and leave their decision in this thread.

 

[Sekkonds.]

Where the hell did this thread go

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I also think the best way to move forward is to ask for more input, because this is clearly going nowhere with both sides not budging at all. This revision will never end this way, so let's get more opinions to shake things up.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Hey, guys, let's be more civil about this and stop treating Damage3245 so badly. He is willing to help with this procedure and remember that he took time off to come here and help us with some "fictional characters" so let's not be ungrateful. If you don't agree with his measures try to explain more civilized in an answer that makes sense with scans to back up thy arguments.

This. Agree with him or not, Damage is at least contributing as a staff member here. With no staff input, nothing here would be accepted at all.

Not blaming anyone or anything for the lack of staff, but if staff on their own dont come, thats when you need to just simply message them and ask to come. Now if you ask them and they still dont come, that becomes a problem.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I asked Elizhaa. since he's already familiar with the verse.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Can I just ask Damage the reason why Nanao can't simply backscale ? She would be slower then Shunsui but in context considering the fights she partakes aren't things that the absolute minimum works so well...Why would Lilie not attack at his fastest against Shunsui and Nanao ? Besides those are dodging feats, short bursts not full blown running around the place

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Lille doesn't even matter, only Shunsui and his words matter regarding Nanao scaling.

 

[Damage3245]

@Dangai Ichigo: Nanao doesn't actually dodge Lille's attacks or fight against him in a meaningful way.

She tries to cut him and he stands there watching her approach until the last moment where he easily blocks her attack. Then, recognizing that could actually cut him with her blade, he charges up his Trumpet attack which is reflected back him after he fires it.

So Nanao does nothing against Lille that would suggest she scales to him.

 

[Vertius_x]

So yeah, a single statement with no supportive feats isn't very convincing.

I don't understand this logic. What are we supposed to go by if not the Manga written by Kubo? Why does it matter if there is only one feat as long as their are no anti-feats? In the case of Nanao, you have two feats, one where she keeps up fairly well with both Kyoraku and Ukitake in the Soul Society arc, arriving just barely after them, and in the TYBW arc, Kyoraku himself vouches for her saying that she can keep up. So again I ask, what are we supposed to go on if not for what the author himself has decided?

As Sigurd reiterrated earlier, you were bringing up questions like: What's the wind velocity? What's the starting distance? How far did they travel? How do we know she was right behind him?

And if I may be blunt, you're being overly nitpicky. Most authors don't think so deeply about things like this, only communities like this do, and that's fine, but you have to take a step back and ask yourself what the authors intent was.

The Shinigami are in enemy territory and Shunsui has just entered combat with Lille (a guy who immediately showed his immense long range combat power), just with those two pieces of information we can say with near certainty that Shunsui isn't going to be just dicking around out there with lazy Shunpo like he's out for a sunday stroll, and that Shunsui said quite clearly that for Nanao to be able to follow him in that fight, her skills must have improved quite a bit.

I don't understand what's up for debate here. You have two supporting feats and a supporting statement from one of the oldest, most powerful, and wisest Captains (and zero anti feats that I'm aware of), why are his words not trustworthy?

 

[Damage3245]

> As Sigurd reiterrated earlier, you were bringing up questions like: What's the wind velocity? What's the starting distance? How far did they travel? How do we know she was right behind him?

In case you couldn't tell, some of those questions weren't actually asked by me.

And you say two supporting feats, but one of those is from a completely different arc.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

The only one was wind velocity but you did ask everything else.

Also Shunsui is relatively the same throughout the series, him and Jushiro don't do anything. He's lazy and Jushiro is always sick. Or do you believe the likes of Yama and Unhoana secretly train ?

 

[Damage3245]

@Sigurd; then why did you insert something completely unrelated when quoting me? Isn't that a bit dishonest?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Nope, was to point out how ridiculous you were being over analyzing everything and asking things we wouldn't possibly know in a manga unless drawn or stated.

 

[The_Causality]

And if I may be blunt, you're being overly nitpicky. Most authors don't think so deeply about things like this, only communities like this do, and that's fine, but you have to take a step back and ask yourself what the authors intent was.

My thought Exactly, Bravo.

 

[PandarianOda]

I feel like being overly nitpicky is actually a good thing when trying to be objective and get the most accurate and well objective rating for a verse.

If we just let everything in cause well, you like the verse or you think it would be great if everyone scaled or such then we get seththeprogrammer honestly.

Anyway, I dont think everyone should scale to renji after his training just because they were stronger prior or because they are captains or the such. It would make sense they would have to actually showcase feats for such to be an actual thing.

Yes renji isnt yama level, but also he clearly has better feats than most of the cast with the calc after his training. Which no one else really showcases so I feel it's a little weird to say everyone scales to him just cause he wasnt that great previously

 

[Ovrhide]

Can people get more staff members in here instead of "calling" each other out?

you guys already know this isnt going anywhere if damage is the only staff member arguing here.


or are you guys not confident enough in the thread at all?

 

[Qawsedf234]

So what are the problems here exactly? Just the size of various areas or is it the universal multipliers?

 

[Naeblis495]

right now it's the speed scaling . Damage have a problem with it.

 

[Damage3245]

@Qawsdef234; can't give a detailed summary at this time but in a nutshell there are a few issues with the speed scaling being proposed in the OP.

Issues like trying to scale Sui-Feng to post-training Byakuya/Toshiro, or trying to scale half the captains to Nanao.

 

[Vertius_x]

So what are the problems here exactly? Just the size of various areas or is it the universal multipliers?

The one we were most recently discussing was Nanao and whether she should scale to Shunsui in speed.

There are two feats for her, the first being in the Soul Society arc where she keeps up fairly well with both Kyoraku and Ukitake in the Soul Society arc, arriving just barely after them, and in the TYBW arc when Shunsui begins his fight against Lille and Nanao keeps up with him, Shunsui says quite clearly that for Nanao to be able to follow him in that fight, her skills must have improved quite a bit. I'm of the opinion that two feats and a statement from a respectable character like Shunsui coupled with the fact that there are no anti feats for her is enough to give her a comparable speed rating to him, but Damage doesn't seem to agree.

 

[Qawsedf234]

What chapters do the feats/statements happen in? I'll reread them to properly weigh in.

For Sui-Feng if she doesn't have scaling she just doesn't have scaling. Sucks but its what happens sometimes.

 

[Zezu1995]

bruh just scale sui to renji/rukia and theres nothing wrong with scaling captains to nano who can keep up with shunsui.. most of these captains are almost as strong as each other, if it wasnt for royal training byakuya wouldnt be much different than the others, as for toshiro that adult buff has to be 10x only way it would make sense for him to get that strong