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They're not the same though. That's why this convo exists at all.
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Issues with Energy Equalization (Staff Only)
- Thread starter Elizhaa
- Start date
- Status
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I would appreciate no nonsense assumptions like this, because that's very insulting cal. I don't care about any hax fest, I doubt many of the people here do. But if that's what the characters do, are we gonna imagine that stops being a thing? Why do you even need to make this about characters winning by X move? Don't do that shit, please.The real cal howard said:
Also, the only thing I believe in is a rewording of the verse equal stuff to stop any misunderstandings about what it is meant to be from happening. Some still will, but if it happens less its an improvement.
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Not staff, but I want to make this clear. Ban me if you want. It be like that.
It's not giving a Ki user a resistance if their power works almost exactly the same way as what a Nen user would do to defend against Nen hax. It's not giving a person with high Ki/Spirit energy a resistance if Reiatsu crush doesn't work on people with High Ki/Spirit Energy. Those are weaknesses of the powers themselves. Rules of the Verse themselves.
I can concede respectfully to the possibility that Reiatsu Crush as the prime example, has Soul Manip qualities to it, but not only is ignoring the direct correlation between AP and Spiritual Power/Reiryoku deliberately in favor of acting as if it is pure hax with nothing else rather faulty, but it denies what the verse establishes. Unless you can list multiple examples and explanations that directly state that Reiatsu Crush resistance is irrelevant to being above a certain level of power, the safest assumption is that it works primarily on people who have low resistance and low Reiatsu, but not people who have high Reiatsu regardless of resistance, unless there are enough examples where people who have had high(er than the crushers') Spirit stuff have been Soul Haxed. There's a direct correlation between AP and Soul Resistance in Bleach due to not powers individually but the rules of the verse itself, so we either ignore Verse Equalization as a whole and just say all powers work on each other unless there's a resistance, regardless of how it would work in each verse if we applied all the rules equally, or we apply all the rules equally, and say, for example, that RC only works on people who have no soul resistance and weak spiritual power, but not on those with high spiritual power, regardless of resistance, because it's never been shown to affect someone with high power but low resistance. The fact that you likely can't show me an example of that kind of demonstrates how far off base the interpretation is from the verse itself. It's less about Hax and more about how high AP gives you hax resistance by default— or rather, it doesn't work on those with high AP and if we're not using the rules of that verse on everyone, why call it Verse Equalization.
HxH is another example. Despite the fact that all over fiction characters with life/Spirit energy use battle auras to fight, and some literally create them to defend against other energies— the EXACT same way as they do against each other in the HxH verse, the hax, that normally wouldn't work against someone who uses the same method, still goes through. Deliberately ignoring how the power works in HxH, even when another verse does the EXACT same thing. But they're not the same energies, and we don't give resistances, even though a universal method of defense that is NOT a power but an application of one isn't a resistance on the outsider but a weakness of the verse, and that using the weaknesses of the power isn't the same as giving them resistance.
Point is, the rules of the verses have to be respected and used properly, not viewed as out of context hax, if we're doing Verse Equalization. It's so incredibly easy to say, "Ok, if X character with the same type of power existed in Y universe where Z power gives you W benefits and weaknesses. And V rules create U phenomena that characters with Z power or use T methods of defense can overcome happens when all of that is true, X character would be able to do whatever to avoid that affect."
Goku would have high Reiatsu or something, and if we're against giving Goku Reiatsu hax, we should at least be fine with Reiatsu Crush not working on him, since it doesn't work on people with High whatever. But if your response is, "It's not— Goku doesn't have Reiatsu" then we're not Verse equalizing. We literally don't have to if you just assume all the powers work, so long as you can tie an affect that is slightly outside of AP and into Hax. Just treat Reiatsu Crush as Hax and ignore the obvious AP connection, because that rule only applies to Bleach characters.
If we're gonna do what we're doing, don't call it Verse Equalization, because it's not equal. It's not having the basic rules of their energies apply to both parties the way that they do in the show, it is just letting all of the powers work. Even if Genjutsu in Naruto is done by putting their energy into a target, not only does it still need to have Chakra circulatory systems, which no one has exactly, but they need them in the brain, etc. and even then, Senjutsu. There's no direct equivalent. This isn't Verse Equalization.
Ok. Done. You can ban me or delete this if you want. I don't regret shit.
It's not giving a Ki user a resistance if their power works almost exactly the same way as what a Nen user would do to defend against Nen hax. It's not giving a person with high Ki/Spirit energy a resistance if Reiatsu crush doesn't work on people with High Ki/Spirit Energy. Those are weaknesses of the powers themselves. Rules of the Verse themselves.
I can concede respectfully to the possibility that Reiatsu Crush as the prime example, has Soul Manip qualities to it, but not only is ignoring the direct correlation between AP and Spiritual Power/Reiryoku deliberately in favor of acting as if it is pure hax with nothing else rather faulty, but it denies what the verse establishes. Unless you can list multiple examples and explanations that directly state that Reiatsu Crush resistance is irrelevant to being above a certain level of power, the safest assumption is that it works primarily on people who have low resistance and low Reiatsu, but not people who have high Reiatsu regardless of resistance, unless there are enough examples where people who have had high(er than the crushers') Spirit stuff have been Soul Haxed. There's a direct correlation between AP and Soul Resistance in Bleach due to not powers individually but the rules of the verse itself, so we either ignore Verse Equalization as a whole and just say all powers work on each other unless there's a resistance, regardless of how it would work in each verse if we applied all the rules equally, or we apply all the rules equally, and say, for example, that RC only works on people who have no soul resistance and weak spiritual power, but not on those with high spiritual power, regardless of resistance, because it's never been shown to affect someone with high power but low resistance. The fact that you likely can't show me an example of that kind of demonstrates how far off base the interpretation is from the verse itself. It's less about Hax and more about how high AP gives you hax resistance by default— or rather, it doesn't work on those with high AP and if we're not using the rules of that verse on everyone, why call it Verse Equalization.
HxH is another example. Despite the fact that all over fiction characters with life/Spirit energy use battle auras to fight, and some literally create them to defend against other energies— the EXACT same way as they do against each other in the HxH verse, the hax, that normally wouldn't work against someone who uses the same method, still goes through. Deliberately ignoring how the power works in HxH, even when another verse does the EXACT same thing. But they're not the same energies, and we don't give resistances, even though a universal method of defense that is NOT a power but an application of one isn't a resistance on the outsider but a weakness of the verse, and that using the weaknesses of the power isn't the same as giving them resistance.
Point is, the rules of the verses have to be respected and used properly, not viewed as out of context hax, if we're doing Verse Equalization. It's so incredibly easy to say, "Ok, if X character with the same type of power existed in Y universe where Z power gives you W benefits and weaknesses. And V rules create U phenomena that characters with Z power or use T methods of defense can overcome happens when all of that is true, X character would be able to do whatever to avoid that affect."
Goku would have high Reiatsu or something, and if we're against giving Goku Reiatsu hax, we should at least be fine with Reiatsu Crush not working on him, since it doesn't work on people with High whatever. But if your response is, "It's not— Goku doesn't have Reiatsu" then we're not Verse equalizing. We literally don't have to if you just assume all the powers work, so long as you can tie an affect that is slightly outside of AP and into Hax. Just treat Reiatsu Crush as Hax and ignore the obvious AP connection, because that rule only applies to Bleach characters.
If we're gonna do what we're doing, don't call it Verse Equalization, because it's not equal. It's not having the basic rules of their energies apply to both parties the way that they do in the show, it is just letting all of the powers work. Even if Genjutsu in Naruto is done by putting their energy into a target, not only does it still need to have Chakra circulatory systems, which no one has exactly, but they need them in the brain, etc. and even then, Senjutsu. There's no direct equivalent. This isn't Verse Equalization.
Ok. Done. You can ban me or delete this if you want. I don't regret shit.
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You would be incorrect, Amexim, as I had already explained to you before in the previous Energy Equalization thread about Reiatsu and Reiryoku mechanics.
Reiatsu Crush (the soul aspect) is not dependent on AP as there are numerous instances showing us that (the High 6-C Starrk was destroying the souls of fodder Hollows who are tiered at 7-C, yet Orihime was perfectly fine in his prescence despite also being 7-C at her best keys). Quincies also don't have notable Reiatsu since they inherently don't have notable Reiryoku as they fight with Reishi, yet Quincy are fine in the prescence of Shinigami that have high Reiatsu through their high Reiryoku.
Reiatsu Crush (the soul aspect) is not dependent on AP as there are numerous instances showing us that (the High 6-C Starrk was destroying the souls of fodder Hollows who are tiered at 7-C, yet Orihime was perfectly fine in his prescence despite also being 7-C at her best keys). Quincies also don't have notable Reiatsu since they inherently don't have notable Reiryoku as they fight with Reishi, yet Quincy are fine in the prescence of Shinigami that have high Reiatsu through their high Reiryoku.
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For everyone who keeps discussing Reiatsu Crush here, for like the upteenth time, how about instead of people going back and forth with the "this was already explained" or "this is wrong", etc.
We actually post the thread where Reiatsu Crush was accepted as Reiatsu Crush here in the first place and go from there? It saves everyone here a whole lot of trouble by not needing to go back and forth with this once again.
We actually post the thread where Reiatsu Crush was accepted as Reiatsu Crush here in the first place and go from there? It saves everyone here a whole lot of trouble by not needing to go back and forth with this once again.
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I am willing to bet someone already posted it before, and some other people actually bought up to drop the issue or bring it somewhere else because it is entirely unrelated to this, which I agree with.
And I think you just went off on a deep ride to nowhere, Amexim. Allowing both parties to bring to bear what they can do and affect each other and resist as they've shown to do is pure equality. Its nothing more and nothing less than letting shit work because otherwise, we couldn't ever discuss much.
And I think you just went off on a deep ride to nowhere, Amexim. Allowing both parties to bring to bear what they can do and affect each other and resist as they've shown to do is pure equality. Its nothing more and nothing less than letting shit work because otherwise, we couldn't ever discuss much.
Heavens_Feel
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My one and only post on this delete it after the fact but this needs to be said because the filler comments are getting out of control
Regular members, stop god dam posting and let the staff decide what to do. We have already discussed this to death a gajillion times in regular member threads. Let it go and accept the discussion the staff make.
Regular members, stop god dam posting and let the staff decide what to do. We have already discussed this to death a gajillion times in regular member threads. Let it go and accept the discussion the staff make.
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Staff clearly don't care about regular users replying anymore, or else half of the replies in this thread would have been hakai'd a while ago.
So no, that really didn't need to be said. At this point it doesn't really matter.
So no, that really didn't need to be said. At this point it doesn't really matter.
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Irrelevant to the fact that the scans supporting your point clearly state that Staark hated being STRONG— making it absolutely clear and extremely difficult and pedantic to diverse AP from Soul stuff in Bleach, irrelevant to the fact that I was asking for an example of RC working on people with High Spiritual Power but "low resistance", not low power but high resistance, because that doesn't mean it works on people with High SP if they don't have resistance— it only means that you need resistance if you don't have high SP, and irrelevant to your appeal to tradition or more accurately an appeal to a previous ruling that doesn't inherently mean it's valid, the fact still remains that we either equalize or we don't.
Calling ignoring verse mechanics when it's "problematic" "Verse Equalization" is a huge misnomer. Instead of planting the characters in a neutral universe where both of their verse mechanics apply for them, strengths and weaknesses and all, we're pretending that the powers they have displayed due to verse mechanics or unique takes on Spirit energy is somehow not just unique powers they have, but powers that operate far different than they actually would in their verse, given similar circumstances. We're having characters who have actual defensive maneuvers that are seen as viable counters to hax effects being affected when they shouldn't, just because their profile doesn't list a resistance, and not because of the actual context of the power in the story.
It's at worse, blatant reinterpretation of mechanics in a story to squeeze out wins that don't even seem worth noting because they turn into stomps if everyone just assumes the hax is hyper potent, and at best, misinterpretation of how the verse works.
Not equalizing things is fine. Just have powers to win. Isn't that the bleach croud's response to anything concerning Soul Crush? Just have resistances. If Genjutsu doesn't work because, regardless of injecting Chakra in someone, they still need Chakra circulatory systems to flow the chakra in the brain, and no tenketsu means no Genjutsu. Oh well. That's a requirement of the power. It's like Soul Crushing people who lack souls.
Calling ignoring verse mechanics when it's "problematic" "Verse Equalization" is a huge misnomer. Instead of planting the characters in a neutral universe where both of their verse mechanics apply for them, strengths and weaknesses and all, we're pretending that the powers they have displayed due to verse mechanics or unique takes on Spirit energy is somehow not just unique powers they have, but powers that operate far different than they actually would in their verse, given similar circumstances. We're having characters who have actual defensive maneuvers that are seen as viable counters to hax effects being affected when they shouldn't, just because their profile doesn't list a resistance, and not because of the actual context of the power in the story.
It's at worse, blatant reinterpretation of mechanics in a story to squeeze out wins that don't even seem worth noting because they turn into stomps if everyone just assumes the hax is hyper potent, and at best, misinterpretation of how the verse works.
Not equalizing things is fine. Just have powers to win. Isn't that the bleach croud's response to anything concerning Soul Crush? Just have resistances. If Genjutsu doesn't work because, regardless of injecting Chakra in someone, they still need Chakra circulatory systems to flow the chakra in the brain, and no tenketsu means no Genjutsu. Oh well. That's a requirement of the power. It's like Soul Crushing people who lack souls.
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Ahh, so you're gripe isn't with Reiatsu Crush, nor your misunderstanding, rather it's with the standards we have with Verse Equalization.
It seems you would agree with Cal then because your bottom paragraph is pretty much his exact final comments in wanting to not equalize. Same examples too.
It seems you would agree with Cal then because your bottom paragraph is pretty much his exact final comments in wanting to not equalize. Same examples too.
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Yes. My problem isn't just bleach. I don't care that much. My problem is how we handle Verse Equalization. It's the same result, and same people because it's the same ******* problem that never gets properly addressed. But I swear too much and have no patience, so my opinion is out. Cal is too sarcastic to be taken seriously by people who already refuse to change their opinions no matter how well you phrase your argument, so he's out. Everything to do with our demeanor and nothing to do with the problem, and I understand how that makes people want to listen to you less, but people who don't want to agree with you just WON'T and that's reality. That being said, I would still voice my complaints until it becomes a universal rule to stop my free expression on the matter, because I can. Would. But this shit makes me avoid the site altogether— not because we don't agree, but because we can't— nvm.
The point I make is, call it something else if what we're really doing is allowing powers to work on people from different universes, context and what is reasonable be damned. Don't Verse or Equalization or Energy Equalization, because that's blatantly false advertising. If we're gonna verse equalize, then we gotta start from the premise that all of the rules and affects of the energies apply, on the basic level, and strip away from that point instead of starting at this bottom tier assumption that we equalize the powers but not really, even if they act the exact same or their existence and rules have obviously applicable ramifications on the fight.
What's the point in calling it Verse Equalization, when instead of having the overall rules and mechanics of similar concepts in the verse be applicable to both sides as if they inhabited the same verse where the same rules from both worlds applied to both of them equally or to some extent, we really mean none of that?
The point I make is, call it something else if what we're really doing is allowing powers to work on people from different universes, context and what is reasonable be damned. Don't Verse or Equalization or Energy Equalization, because that's blatantly false advertising. If we're gonna verse equalize, then we gotta start from the premise that all of the rules and affects of the energies apply, on the basic level, and strip away from that point instead of starting at this bottom tier assumption that we equalize the powers but not really, even if they act the exact same or their existence and rules have obviously applicable ramifications on the fight.
What's the point in calling it Verse Equalization, when instead of having the overall rules and mechanics of similar concepts in the verse be applicable to both sides as if they inhabited the same verse where the same rules from both worlds applied to both of them equally or to some extent, we really mean none of that?
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Allowing myself a moment of anger which I shouldn't, what is the ******* problem with not agreeing with you? Or other people?
Can't I have my own opinion on shit and disagree "no matter how well written your argument is" without someone having to make it sound like I have some sort of imaginary, moronic, non existent agenda or some incapability to see reason and logic that "obsviously" only exists in the other side of the argument?
I am getting tired of that kind of stuff, its really not needed and tiresome. Anyway, most do seem to agree with Elizhaa about this.
Can't I have my own opinion on shit and disagree "no matter how well written your argument is" without someone having to make it sound like I have some sort of imaginary, moronic, non existent agenda or some incapability to see reason and logic that "obsviously" only exists in the other side of the argument?
I am getting tired of that kind of stuff, its really not needed and tiresome. Anyway, most do seem to agree with Elizhaa about this.
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Amexim did voice part of my opinion quite well. So much so that I did have a small epiphany. And this isn't me being sarcastic. This isn't specifically about Bleach, no. In fact, I take back the harshness I've given it before and saying I disliked it because of RC. That's childish and I'm sorry for being childish. And the issue isn't specific to them. They're just at the forefront.
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Nothing is wrong with not agreeing with me. What I hate, oh so much, is not just being tone policed, not even that, but having discussion be so emphasized, and also immediately disregarded. You can disagree with me all you want to, but there's no discussion to be had if there's no willingness to budge. I can let you have Reiatsu Crush having Soul Manip Shit, I can come to my own middle ground on it and say that it is some "AP = Hax" type shit. But the last thread I made had people claiming a weakness of a power is the same as the target having a resistance to it.
At that point, I got sick of it, because we fundamentally do not speak the same language. Yet the only way to get anywhere is to continue this facade of fair arguments when all things made by group decision are ruled by the mob mentality, sans situations where people in power can veto you based on their level of authority.
You wanna sit here and act like we can come to any rational decisions through debate, and yet maintain the position you have, not just because you think I am wrong irrelevant to that being true or false, nor because you consciously have an agenda— everyone is suspect to have one, and often times it is unconscious— but because it's your opinion and nothing else. And we're supposed to have discussion somehow? How can I convince you that you're wrong, if you don't want to no matter what I say?
And all of that is fine. I don't even so much feel that you need to agree with me, more than I need people to not take advantage of the rules and interpret things in ways that are neither accurate, nor unbiased. I have people arguing that verse mechanics from a story that they seem to not fully understand work completely different than what they actually work as, AND ignore the fact that the defensive actions those characters take to avoid those affects are done in other verses, all because of a rule that isn't even applicable in every scenario they think it does. But I can't say shit, nor be abrasive about it, despite many staff members getting away with murder in comparison, but imma just be Kermit and mind my ******* business.
At that point, I got sick of it, because we fundamentally do not speak the same language. Yet the only way to get anywhere is to continue this facade of fair arguments when all things made by group decision are ruled by the mob mentality, sans situations where people in power can veto you based on their level of authority.
You wanna sit here and act like we can come to any rational decisions through debate, and yet maintain the position you have, not just because you think I am wrong irrelevant to that being true or false, nor because you consciously have an agenda— everyone is suspect to have one, and often times it is unconscious— but because it's your opinion and nothing else. And we're supposed to have discussion somehow? How can I convince you that you're wrong, if you don't want to no matter what I say?
And all of that is fine. I don't even so much feel that you need to agree with me, more than I need people to not take advantage of the rules and interpret things in ways that are neither accurate, nor unbiased. I have people arguing that verse mechanics from a story that they seem to not fully understand work completely different than what they actually work as, AND ignore the fact that the defensive actions those characters take to avoid those affects are done in other verses, all because of a rule that isn't even applicable in every scenario they think it does. But I can't say shit, nor be abrasive about it, despite many staff members getting away with murder in comparison, but imma just be Kermit and mind my ******* business.
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Just for the sake of clarification, I am willing to apply the non-staff users comments rule, but if the other staff members don't think it's necessary atm then I'm okay with it.
With that being said, I don't feel like going around in circles and falling in potential fallacies and heating this thread more than it currently is. I'm going to ask both sides to calm down because this can get out of control really quick and this isn't supposed to be the case in a staff-only thread.
With that being said, I don't feel like going around in circles and falling in potential fallacies and heating this thread more than it currently is. I'm going to ask both sides to calm down because this can get out of control really quick and this isn't supposed to be the case in a staff-only thread.
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I want to know what the point in making matches that are just auto decided by a mechanic like reiatsu crush.
I think those should be filtered out. That's my only personal problem here.
I think those should be filtered out. That's my only personal problem here.
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You guys completely missed my point. I said characters should not get resistances. All I said is that if, say, genjutsu is allowed to work on someone that doesn't have chakra due to their energies being equalized, then the caveat of genjutsu (if any) would also apply because of the same logic.
You can't just cherry pick and say this ability works due to energy being equalized but the caveat is not applicable because they have different names even when they are similar. If you're making the energies capable of interacting with each other, then you'll have to do it for both the effects and limitations of said ability.
You can't just cherry pick and say this ability works due to energy being equalized but the caveat is not applicable because they have different names even when they are similar. If you're making the energies capable of interacting with each other, then you'll have to do it for both the effects and limitations of said ability.
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those type of fights are not counted already
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Oh if they aren't counted as actual matches then I have no problem here.TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
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yea if a character can just RC at the starts it is a stomp so those type of fights are not counted here
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Genjutsu is another weird topic because unlike Reiatsu or Nen, Genjutsu not only requires the same energy (Chakra) it requires the same biological functions and anatomy (the Chakra Network System).AKM sama said:
So you propose that actually include the caveat of the needed anatomy? Thus we no longer allow Genjutsu to work since we are including the caveat as well?
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I think he's more saying that we either accept the caveats and apply whatever shit not in the opponent naturally to them for the sake of Verse Equalization or we don't Verse equalize. In order for the Gentle Fist and Genjutsu and the like to work, they need Tenketsu. We SHOULD just add that to the opponent via Verse Equalization, putting their energies as the same or similar enough for all of the powers to work properly.
With Nen having caveats related to how the hax affects targets— being defended against by having a literal shroud/aura around you to shield you from the emotions and bloodlust transmitted by the opponent and amplified by the gap in power (since i'd Be more scared of something that can effortlessly crush me than not), and other things, we'd allow any Life/Spirit/Esoteric Vitalism Energies to be that stand in for Nen Chi/Aura if they work the same in that defensive maneuver.
If we don't make things even on both ends, nothing works on the other. We presume a bunch of things like Reiatsu Crush works on other verse's souls in the first place. It's just another axiom.
With Nen having caveats related to how the hax affects targets— being defended against by having a literal shroud/aura around you to shield you from the emotions and bloodlust transmitted by the opponent and amplified by the gap in power (since i'd Be more scared of something that can effortlessly crush me than not), and other things, we'd allow any Life/Spirit/Esoteric Vitalism Energies to be that stand in for Nen Chi/Aura if they work the same in that defensive maneuver.
If we don't make things even on both ends, nothing works on the other. We presume a bunch of things like Reiatsu Crush works on other verse's souls in the first place. It's just another axiom.
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In genjutsu's case, that is also handled by energy being equalized because the main objective in that case is that it should work on the opponent otherwise it would never work.
You again missed my point, it was just an example to say that if the efficiency of any ability depends on the energy that is being equalized, that would be a caveat of the ability, and it will be applicable in case of energy equalization.
You again missed my point, it was just an example to say that if the efficiency of any ability depends on the energy that is being equalized, that would be a caveat of the ability, and it will be applicable in case of energy equalization.
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I fail to see how this is cherry picking in any way.AKM sama said:
Literally for all of the examples I have seen so far, and I want anyone to mention any that wouldn't fall on this, X's caveat of not working because this and that has always been because of a reason beyond "I have 1000 points of mana". Reiatsu Crush doesn't work any less because it works less on people with more Reiyoku, it works less because people with more Reiyoku get soul resistance as a side effect.
The first is a weaknesss, the second is not. There's no caveat for an equalized energy to benefit from because it is no general weakness, it is no open ended weak point that we can generalize by equalized energy.
EDIT: As far as I am aware, in a case of a caveat like you say existing is a thing, we take count of that so I don't see what's the issue.
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"Reiatsu Crush doesn't work any less because it works less on people with more Reiyoku, it works less because people with more Reiyoku get soul resistance as a side effect. "
Soldier Blue would disagree with that line of thought. Plus this is a ridiculous argument that is used to hide the weakness of the ability and disguise it by giving resistances to other people. It's literally the same as saying "more ki=more resistance" in DB.
If people can't deal with applying the caveats associated with energy equalization, then I'm with Cal and don't think energy should even be equalized.
Soldier Blue would disagree with that line of thought. Plus this is a ridiculous argument that is used to hide the weakness of the ability and disguise it by giving resistances to other people. It's literally the same as saying "more ki=more resistance" in DB.
If people can't deal with applying the caveats associated with energy equalization, then I'm with Cal and don't think energy should even be equalized.
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Soldier Blue is not the main eminent person on the subject of Bleach, though I can understand why he thinks that.
We've had extensive discussions about the subject before, so I don't know why the threads in question can't be linked and the matter not be brought up constantly.
Like, again, we see Yammy use Gonzui to absorb a bunch of souls. We see and are told that Tatsuki, who only has a little more than the usual person, resists this because of her Reiyoku. This doesn't get more straight forward.
We've had extensive discussions about the subject before, so I don't know why the threads in question can't be linked and the matter not be brought up constantly.
Like, again, we see Yammy use Gonzui to absorb a bunch of souls. We see and are told that Tatsuki, who only has a little more than the usual person, resists this because of her Reiyoku. This doesn't get more straight forward.
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Her having more Reiryoku means she's stronger than those other people. Her surviving an attack that crushes fodder effortlessly doesn't suddenly make the argument based in Soul Resistance any stronger. She wasn't destroyed by an attack that was only enough to kill fodder it seems. You keep providing these same examples, and most of those examples only imply what the opposition believes. That Reiatsu Crush is AP based or some variant thought. Staark talks about how he envy's the weak, who die around him due to his strength. Him using the word soul to describe himself as a strong individual spirit with powerful spiritual pressure doesn't necessarily definitively mean that he's talking about his soul specifically, but even if that's splitting hairs for you, it negates none of the implications that AP has a lot to do with it, and there's not enough clear clarification to make it explicitly known that it's hax only and not AP or AP = Hax.
Tatsuki surviving that what seems to be a garbage power Soul Succ move used on garbage fodder isn't an indicator of hax resistance distances and meaningfully distinguished from "high enough Reiryoku". It's like attributing a slight flex of Jiren's muscles being enough to kill all but one fodder villain, and claiming that villain to be universal. No, he was just slightly better than what the casual attack meant to be weak and easy could kill...
Tatsuki surviving that what seems to be a garbage power Soul Succ move used on garbage fodder isn't an indicator of hax resistance distances and meaningfully distinguished from "high enough Reiryoku". It's like attributing a slight flex of Jiren's muscles being enough to kill all but one fodder villain, and claiming that villain to be universal. No, he was just slightly better than what the casual attack meant to be weak and easy could kill...
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Meh, just the other thread again ƒñªƒÅ¥ÔÇìÔÖé´©Å. Anyways, I agree with Elizhaa and with that I'm outta here.
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Tatsuki isn't stronger than regular people, she still has human level physicals, such as coming 2nd in a Karate tournament.
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Like, even when you break it down, what you all even agree to as the source of the resistances is the Spiritual Power itself. The energy that comes from the Soul— Which, since it's refered to abs explicitly stated to be what causes Reiatsu Crush, and not some Soul Hax that comes from the Soul itself, but rather from the Spiritual Energy— seems to be what Staark refers to when going on about having a Strong Soul. Not the actual esoteric subject, but himself, and his Reiryoku. You'd call your body strong if you had lots of physical strength, but that doesn't mean you have body manipulation or something. Same principle, talking about his Soul as a source of his Reiryoku— but go ahead and say "that's not what the thread said" as if that isn't already contested.
It's arguably purely AP based, if the power comes from the energy released from the Soul rather than the Soul itself, and that energy is a measure of strength. It then follows that individual Soul resistance has nothing to do with it, but rather the limitations of the mechanics of that energy.
It's arguably purely AP based, if the power comes from the energy released from the Soul rather than the Soul itself, and that energy is a measure of strength. It then follows that individual Soul resistance has nothing to do with it, but rather the limitations of the mechanics of that energy.
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Probably not enough to be noticeable, but unless you're now gonna tell me Reiryoku or Reiatsu isn't the same as AP or strength, i'mma have to say that her being spiritually aware, and having enough Reiryoku to be spiritually aware, and surviving that attack only demonstrates that she's strong enough to survive fodder attacks meant to kill fodder. Which, you know, makes sense, given that she is special in comparison to those fodder...
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And once again, Tatsuki is not physically stronger than fodder humans. She's still human in physicals. Your argument falls apart on itself when you're using Tatsuki to try to justify your reasonings.
The Quincy also lack notable Reiatsu (low Reiryoku) despite contending with Tier 6-C to Tier 6-B characters with Reiatsu feats and strong Reiryoku.
The Quincy also lack notable Reiatsu (low Reiryoku) despite contending with Tier 6-C to Tier 6-B characters with Reiatsu feats and strong Reiryoku.
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If you feel the need to drive in circles all over again, knock yourself out.
I have no actual care for repeating the same thing again when the evidence is clear.
I have no actual care for repeating the same thing again when the evidence is clear.
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I'm beginning to agree with you Lancelot. I'm refraining from commenting now, I've linked my comments from the previous thread with actual scans and I've gave my piece of mind.
The voting is already underway so let it proceed regularly.
The voting is already underway so let it proceed regularly.
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I agree with Amexim on that if the attack was meant to kill normal humans, her having a little more spiritual energy would obviously distinguish her.
And there can always be exceptions to norms. Just because an ability works effectively due to characters having a big gap in spiritual energy doesn't mean a character can't possess innate resistance against that particular ability despite not having a high spiritual energy.
This is basically arguing for if every character above base Goku gets resistance to existence erasure and every character above SSB Goku gets resistance to time stop because it is evident that these abilities can be resisted by having enough amount of ki, but it won't be applicable to other characters in vs matches because ki is different.
And there can always be exceptions to norms. Just because an ability works effectively due to characters having a big gap in spiritual energy doesn't mean a character can't possess innate resistance against that particular ability despite not having a high spiritual energy.
This is basically arguing for if every character above base Goku gets resistance to existence erasure and every character above SSB Goku gets resistance to time stop because it is evident that these abilities can be resisted by having enough amount of ki, but it won't be applicable to other characters in vs matches because ki is different.
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