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I've sent a message to AKM for a comment since they left a summary of the issues on the previous thread. Just waiting on a response.
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Can you show these "many" similarities please?The counterargument for this point is that an addition of a word in the base name makes it different. No, it just makes it a powered up version, it doesn't make it an entirely different attack with entirely different mechanics when there are so many similarities between the two directly shown to us.
Mask doesn't exaggerate about his attacks. He does say star at the beginning of his attacks but that's just the name. he adds to it. For example "star hea" butt is an actual head butt,Star eagle kick is an aerial kick. Star rocket head butt is him lunching himself at high speed doing a head butt. Star Flash an actual flash/beam of light. Mask calling himself a hero is not a debunk. He clearly says it's a beam of light coming from the hero which is him. Also considering most qunicy can create light it's not far fetched to say it is light.This again.
To recapitulate my main issues:
1. The statement used to justify it being light is as follows:
"The villain shall die... by the hero's beam of light"
Notice the use of extravagant language here. The villain, the hero, the hero's light. This could be easily interpreted as being symbolic and used for hype alone. This isn't stated as some matter-of-fact thing. This is literally a "hero" telling a "villain" (associated with "darkness") that he will be defeated by his "light". If it would have been something like "beam made of light", it would have been much more matter-of-fact.
This sentence has the same energy as "the villain shall be defeated by the hero's punch of justice". It's not meant to be taken literally. The idea that this is light speed should be rejected due to this point alone, as the premise itself isn't strong.
The only counterargument to this point is "it's literal just because".
2. KingTempest brought up some anti-feats regarding the same energy attack / technique performed by the same character. It resembles the aforementioned technique in almost every way, be it the color, the star shaped pattern, the impact crater, vaporization effect, etc. It even has the same base name, with only an extra word. Similar attack in every way, yet it bends and has different speed, which destroys the notion of it being real light.
The counterargument for this point is that an addition of a word in the base name makes it different. No, it just makes it a powered up version, it doesn't make it an entirely different attack with entirely different mechanics when there are so many similarities between the two directly shown to us.
Also, it behaving differently (in the sense of direction and speed) is the entire point of the anti-feat. The same point that is being refuted by bringing up the anti-feat cannot be used to counter the anti-feat. That's circular logic. "This similar attack is working differently in given manner" is not countered by "since it is working differently in given manner, it is not a similar attack".
The revision of light standards do not address these issues. So I am still in disagreement.
i agree with thisThis again.
To recapitulate my main issues:
1. The statement used to justify it being light is as follows:
"The villain shall die... by the hero's beam of light"
Notice the use of extravagant language here. The villain, the hero, the hero's light. This could be easily interpreted as being symbolic and used for hype alone. This isn't stated as some matter-of-fact thing. This is literally a "hero" telling a "villain" (associated with "darkness") that he will be defeated by his "light". If it would have been something like "beam made of light", it would have been much more matter-of-fact.
This sentence has the same energy as "the villain shall be defeated by the hero's punch of justice". It's not meant to be taken literally. The idea that this is light speed should be rejected due to this point alone, as the premise itself isn't strong.
The only counterargument to this point is "it's literal just because".
2. KingTempest brought up some anti-feats regarding the same energy attack / technique performed by the same character. It resembles the aforementioned technique in almost every way, be it the color, the star shaped pattern, the impact crater, vaporization effect, etc. It even has the same base name, with only an extra word. Similar attack in every way, yet it bends and has different speed, which destroys the notion of it being real light.
The counterargument for this point is that an addition of a word in the base name makes it different. No, it just makes it a powered up version, it doesn't make it an entirely different attack with entirely different mechanics when there are so many similarities between the two directly shown to us.
Also, it behaving differently (in the sense of direction and speed) is the entire point of the anti-feat. The same point that is being refuted by bringing up the anti-feat cannot be used to counter the anti-feat. That's circular logic. "This similar attack is working differently in given manner" is not countered by "since it is working differently in given manner, it is not a similar attack".
The revision of light standards do not address these issues. So I am still in disagreement.
Considering the attacks have separate names…
By that logic all irl missiles are the same because they are all “missiles”.It's an expansion on the original name.
It reflects, the perspective we are shown is a funky perspective sure, but it reflects nonetheless.The attack "reflecting" off of the blade is a questionable property since we don't see the beam itself actually going anywhere else in a cohesive path, or see it striking some other target. It seemingly just hits Renji's blade and stops there. Cyber did a breakdown of it in the previous thread here. To some people, I'm sure that what's been presented is more than enough for saying it reflected, but the fact that we don't see the beam itself go anywhere else puts some doubt in it for me.
If it's called a beam of light so why are we arguing.So even if I accept Mask describing his Star Flash as a "beam of light
I didn’t see any energy beam from his Star Kick or Star Punch. But is nice that you accept the “made of light” statements as an argument.There is precedent in Bleach for attacks being "made of light" and not being anything like lightspeed, so the burden of evidence need to be a bit better in my books.
The attack "reflecting" off of the blade is a questionable property since we don't see the beam itself actually going anywhere else in a cohesive path, or see it striking some other target. It seemingly just hits Renji's blade and stops there. Cyber did a breakdown of it in the previous thread here. To some people, I'm sure that what's been presented is more than enough for saying it reflected, but the fact that we don't see the beam itself go anywhere else puts some doubt in it for me.
So even if I accept Mask describing his Star Flash as a "beam of light" as a solid requirement, that's only one solid requirement from my perspective and not enough for the requirements page.
Personally I would say that this could be a case where we need more information; an anime adaptation could expand on the scene to make it clear where or not the attack should be treated as lightspeed or not. We're already waiting on the anime for a few other controversial points for Bleach, so waiting for more information on this before going through a massive revision seems best to me as a compromise.
It's an expansion on the original name.
Damage …….. Cyber had a whole CRT made using that reflection and his breakdown of it as the basis and everyone who came on that thread unanimously agreed that his breakdown was absurdly strict and that it would stop literally all feats with reflections from qualifying since it isn’t perfect.There is precedent in Bleach for attacks being "made of light" and not being anything like lightspeed, so the burden of evidence need to be a bit better in my books.
The attack "reflecting" off of the blade is a questionable property since we don't see the beam itself actually going anywhere else in a cohesive path, or see it striking some other target. It seemingly just hits Renji's blade and stops there. Cyber did a breakdown of it in the previous thread here. To some people, I'm sure that what's been presented is more than enough for saying it reflected, but the fact that we don't see the beam itself go anywhere else puts some doubt in it for me.
So even if I accept Mask describing his Star Flash as a "beam of light" as a solid requirement, that's only one solid requirement from my perspective and not enough for the requirements page.
Personally I would say that this could be a case where we need more information; an anime adaptation could expand on the scene to make it clear where or not the attack should be treated as lightspeed or not. We're already waiting on the anime for a few other controversial points for Bleach, so waiting for more information on this before going through a massive revision seems best to me as a compromise.
It's an expansion on the original name.
I deadass talked with Cyber in dms about that too oh so long ago, and after a lengthy deliberation he was like "yeah I was being a headass, that should be treated as reflection".Damage …….. Cyber had a whole CRT made using that reflection and his breakdown of it as the basis and everyone who came on that thread unanimously agreed that his breakdown was absurdly strict and that it would stop literally all feats with reflections from qualifying since it isn’t perfect.
We do see it go off in other directions after it's reflected, that's how we know it reflected in the first place...To some people, I'm sure that what's been presented is more than enough for saying it reflected, but the fact that we don't see the beam itself go anywhere else puts some doubt in it for me.
Why does the direction matter? It's not even in the qualification for light speed beams.@Arc7Kuroi; just because a person making an argument changes their mind doesn't mean that everyone else who agreed with the argument should also switch as well.
Doesn't Mask say the attack was diverted?
Coming from his forehead
Scans shows the trail coming from his wings
not every oneI’m pretty sure every Quincy gets one when they enter vollstandig.
The light from his wing is from his head dude what? The light from his wing is from his wing man lol. Imma read the fight again because it’s been a while and for all I know you could be rightHow did you miss the point?
The Light from the wing you claim is from his head, forms a wing and uses it to draw a star shaped sign for his technique, unless he can form different properties of light in his head then no it was the same property that formed star flash that did this too.
Edit: Let me Edit my post cause you know people tend to see what they want to see
That’s what I was trying to tell him. I just did a quick read through on chapters I know they show vollstandig and I can confirm that at least Quilge, Candice, and Bazz B all have the halo above their heads. Factor that in with Mask’s star flash supernova coming completely from his wings and his points are debunkedYou are aware of what Vollstandig does right? It gives you Pentagram halo and a pair of wings. They are two separate things.
Nah you are right, i just read the fight again, but then i got new things, i will update my original post nowThe light from his wing is from his head dude what? The light from his wing is from his wing man lol. Imma read the fight again because it’s been a while and for all I know you could be right