Bleach: Renji and Mask

[Cyberblader90]

A few months ago I made this thread:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/bleach-pts-speed-downgrade.112335/

In it I contested this calc for now admittingly bad points. Towards the end of the crt I was fine with the calc remaining though it was axed due to a change in light speed standards. As of this month, the most important change has been reverted, and "beam of light" was agreed to mean "made of light". As such I am here to petition to the return of the Renji calc.

Why is this lightspeed?

The beam is called light
Refracting in a reflective material (Zanpakutô already demonstrated to be reflective)
Travel straight
Does not explode, simply burns / vaporizes what comes in contact

The Calc itself is already accepted, it just needs to be reapplied.

 

[Dalesean027]

Blessed once again I agree

 

[Reio35]

Yup

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Well you got it being made of light and reflecting which are 2 valid points. It moving in a straight line and not exploding is helpful as well. The only concern would be the speed of the attack since one of our requirements are having something state or support it's speed being that fast.

I'm fine with it being accepted but I'd like to know if any slow characters have reacted to it and by "slow", I mean characters who cap out around Massively Hypersonic at their best when going all out. If there aren't then I don't really have an issue and agree with it being added.

 

[Cyberblader90]

renji reacted to it after his soul palace training. He was notably above most of the lower tier characters. he has no anti feats against it at this point.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

renji reacted to it after his soul palace training. He was notably above most of the lower tier characters. he has no anti feats against it at this point.

If he did training and got faster than before I'm ok with him reacting to it since it's he doesn't have any anti-feats.

 

[Reio35]

Well you got it being made of light and reflecting which are 2 valid points. It moving in a straight line and not exploding is helpful as well. The only concern would be the speed of the attack since one of our requirements are having something state or support it's speed being that fast.

I'm fine with it being accepted but I'd like to know if any slow characters have reacted to it and by "slow", I mean characters who cap out around Massively Hypersonic at their best when going all out. If there aren't then I don't really have an issue and agree with it being added.

Only renji who's miles above captain level fighters like kensie and rose.

 

[Allmighty991]

Yes FTL Bleach, Big agree

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

If he did training and got faster than before I'm ok with him reacting to it since it's he doesn't have any anti-feats.

Yup Mask mercs some captains with it, then Renji comes down like the giga chad he is, after training in the Royal Palace, intercepts the beam, then kicks Mask's ass.

We were previously fine with using the feat, but then LS standards changed, but now they changed again back to what they were when we accepted Mask/Renji's feat.

 

[Arcker123]

Seems simple.

 

[Purgy]

I was curious why this was removed a while back given that I was one of the people who argued for it to be accepted originally and it met several of the requirements, so of course, I agree and feel it shouldn't have been removed in the first place to be honest.

 

[Mister6ame6]

Agree.

 

[Purgy]

I think it might be worthwhile to link the original thread that had it accepted in the OP, might save some people the effort of making arguments that were already discussed.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Well if 2 requirements are still enough should be fine

 

[EinelRendezvous]

Since there's no anti feats for this and it's fullfil the requirements consistently it should be pointed out that it is valid. I agree.

 

[AKUTO123]

Agree

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Lightspeed standards got reverted? Easy agree.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I agree...

 

[Bernkastelll]

 

[Cyberblader90]

bump

 

[Ovy7]

You either die a villain, or live enough to become a hero. Cyber is the latter xD

Anyway, I agree with the OP.

 

[Loyd]

i agree

 

[PrinceofPein]

Me waiting for the usual bleach CRT violence

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Me waiting for the usual bleach CRT violence

Quite positive

 

[Teezar]

I absolutely agree

 

[AppleLord]

 

[Voltairee]

I agree.

 

[Damage3245]

There was another reason for why it was rejected beyond just only having a couple of things in support of it. I'll go through the thread for the exact post.

IIRC it was that the energy Mask used was shown to not behave like light in other panels.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

You mean the attack that is fired differently, has properties Star Flash doesn’t and has a different name? Yeah, Star Flash Super Nova is irrelevant.

 

[Damage3245]

Here is the original post where the issue was brought up.

I haven't seen anything new be presented in the OP that would change my stance on this, so I still thing that the calculation should be rejected.

 

[AppleLord]

Reishi = Ray of Light = Light (Arrow of Light) = Reishi Light > Kishi Light

Renji dodged a single ray of light

Light novel > Quincy arrow are called a single streak of light.

Arrow of Light > reishi rays of light from the reishi sun

The original world was made of reishi. Ichibei and the others are souls made of reishi and Soul King turn Menos into sands of reishi aka he reduced him to spiritual particles. Ichibei was present when this happened. Kishi World was split from the Reishi World.

Every point of evidence from the author points at reishi light been the progenitor of normal light. What evidence is offer that says reishi light is inferior to its offspring?

 

[AppleLord]

Mask De Masculine reishi attack is called a beam of light.

Lille Barro's reishi is called light.

Yhwach's Reishi Auswhalen is called light.

No, Jugram did not said that Aushwalen was not reishi.

Hikifune's statement was about reishi attacking the tree and how it uses it to self-regenerate.
2. Yhwach wasn't attacking the tree with Auswhalen, so it didn't needed to absorbed the spiritual particles in Auswhalen to regenerate.
3. Jugram is talking about the "Power" Aushwalen is carrying back up there, in case her tree can play offensive and try to absorb it to prevent the power up. Jugram is not talking about the physical particles of the Auswhalen.

Cero are called spiritual light (light of spiritual particles):

Negacion is called a Beam of Light:

If I had enough time I could make a volume for each time the author told us that reishi is light.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

That isn’t what Damage’s issue is. He is bringing up how Mask leaves behind a reishi trail to fire Star Flash Supernova and thus it doesn’t act like light.

On the SFSN, that isn’t Star Flash, they are two separate attacks and it has different feats/properties compared to SF. The only things that connect the two attacks is having Star Flash in the name and the beam being star shaped. The latter is completely irrelevant as everything Mask does involves star shapes which only leaves the former, different names = different attacks. This is further compounded by

• Mask needing to create a star to fire Supernova while he doesn’t for SF
• SF never involves bending while Supernova does
• SF burns what it hits while Supernova explodes
• SF gets used twice and the same thing happens both times
• Supernova gets used once and does something different compared to the consistent showings of SF.

 

[AppleLord]

As Nodt Reishi spikes are also called Light:

 

[Purgy]

Why are Star Flash and Star Flash Super Nova being considered basically identical? They function almost entirely different?

• Is it because they're named similarly? That's an association fallacy
• Is it because they're made of Reishi? Great, so is literally almost every attack ever in Bleach, we're not going to start applying antifeats of a Cero to Mask's Star Flash for example nor are we going to say Cero's are lightspeed if this gets accepted.
• Is it because they're both comprised of blue glowy energy? Great, so are almost all Quincy attacks, we're not going to start applying those antifeats to Star Flash either nor are we going to make all Quincy attacks lightspeed.

Just seems like a really weird way of rejecting something that clearly meets two of the requirements and multiple of the supporting requirements.

I didn't partake in that thread and only just scanned through it moments ago, so some of this might have been discussed already.

 

[Cyberblader90]

This is easily solved by the fact different moves by quincies can have different properties

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Apple can we keep it focused on Mask here.

Remember being light =/= being the speed of light on this wiki.

 

[Damage3245]

It would mean that something being called "... of light" is not indicative that it has properties of lightspeed. As Nodt's spears certainly don't have evidence of lightspeed, nor does the Cero which was able to be blocked by beginning of series Ichigo.

If things can be made "spiritual light" and not be lightspeed, then that puts serious doubts in place for the validity of the feat.

 

[AppleLord]

That isn’t what Damage’s issue is. He is bringing up how Mask leaves behind a reishi trail to fire Star Flash Supernova and thus it doesn’t act like light.

On the SFSN, that isn’t Star Flash, they are two separate attacks and it has different feats/properties compared to SF.

What reishi trail of fire?

Does Damage mean the blue flames of reishi that Quincy can use?

Damaga is this shinigami confusing reishi light with blue reishi flames.

 

[Purgy]

If things can be made "spiritual light" and not be lightspeed, then that puts serious doubts in place for the validity of the feat.

No it doesn't though, there's a reason why being called light alone isn't enough, the other attacks haven't shown what Mask's Star Flash has, thus they're not argued to be lightspeed.

You can't just apply the antifeats of other Quincy abilities to Star Flash, especially when Star Flash itself hasn't demonstrated any of these antifeats, the various Quincy abilities behave entirely different from each other, which is why this thread isn't trying to argue that they're all lightspeed, rather just the attack that has the most evidence.