Bleach: None Existent Physiology

[Reio35]

Guenael Lee is already excepted as having NEP. However this before the new types were added.

Guenael Lee

I don’t know how many times I’m going to have to say this before we’re done... but let me just say, it’s a pleasure to make your acquaintance. I am Sternritter “V”... Guenael Lee the “Vanishing Point”. And I’m afraid... you will not be able... to see... feel... or even... remember... my...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Guenael Lee is able to erase the existence of his soul
Should get none existent physiology. Nature type 1 and Aspect type 1.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/856250680817877012/916228875078475786/0571-011.png

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/856250680817877012/920810950121111552/0571-014.png

Gremmy should also get NEP as Guenael Lee was created from his imagination. Yhwach and prime soul king as well who are expected as having all these abilities.

 

[Damage3245]

Yhwach and prime soul king as well who are expected as having all these abilities.

No. We don't allow speculation to that degree.

 

[AKUTO123]

For the first time, I agree with damage.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

No. We don't allow speculation to that degree.

For the first time, I agree with damage.

Pretty sure Yhwach was the one who gave Gremmy visionary ability. I am neutral on yhwach though i will decide once everyone gives their opinion.

But SK should get the NEP.

 

[AKUTO123]

Pretty sure Yhwach was the one who gave Gremmy visionary ability. I am neutral on yhwach though i will decide once everyone gives their opinion.

But SK should get the NEP.

The brain of the gremmy soul king so it makes sense to get the soul king. as if I can naturally do what my arm can do. I'm closer to not having this ability with yhwach or not.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

General Lee having Type 1, Aspect 1 seems fine.

But why would Gremmy get Nonexistent Physiology for creating General Lee? Unless Gremmy can do it to, he wouldn't receive that ability... same goes for Yhwach and Soul King.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The brain of the gremmy soul king so it makes sense to get the soul king.

Hm. Also SK transcendency is on whole verse which includes everything so I think he should get this fodder character abilities.

as if I can naturally do what my arm can do. I'm closer to not having this ability with yhwach or not.

Sorry didn't understand what you meant are you telling yhwach should get the ability or not. I am neutral on yhwach end for now.

 

[AKUTO123]

General Lee having Type 1, Aspect 1 seems fine.

But why would Gremmy get Nonexistent Physiology for creating General Lee? Unless Gremmy can do it to, he wouldn't receive that ability... same goes for Yhwach and Soul King.

It does not have type 1 but can come into contact with type 1 characters. What does it gain by contacting type 1 characters here?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

It does not have type 1 but can come into contact with type 1 characters. What does it gain by contacting type 1 characters here?

Non-Physical Interaction on the level of interacting with Nonexistent Physiology of General Lee's type.

 

[Reio35]

General Lee having Type 1, Aspect 1 seems fine.

But why would Gremmy get Nonexistent Physiology for creating General Lee? Unless Gremmy can do it to, he wouldn't receive that ability... same goes for Yhwach and Soul King.

Gremmy created him from his imagination and gave him all his powers

No reason to assume he can't do it himself

 

[Reio35]

No. We don't allow speculation to that degree.

Yhwach granted them all their abilities and took them back.

 

[Duedate8898]

Gremmy created him from his imagination and gave him all his powers

No reason to assume he can't do it himself

Yhwach granted them all their abilities and took them back.

Just because you can great a power doesn't mean you can or will apply/give it to yourself. Especially since neither Yhwach or Gremmy ever show these abilities. It's better to stick with what each of these characters actually does then giving powers they never show. Helps cut down on needless fluff in profiles and sticks more in line with how they'd actually function.

 

[Reio35]

Just because you can great a power doesn't mean you can or will apply/give it to yourself. Especially since neither Yhwach or Gremmy ever show these abilities. It's better to stick with what each of these characters actually does then giving powers they never show. Helps cut down on needless fluff in profiles and sticks more in line with how they'd actually function.

I mean if i created a power and gave to someone else. Why would the person who made the power not be able to use it?

Gremmy was literally creating everything he was doing imagining his whole future.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/831450458353827853/932464012547985408/0572-008.png

 

[Deceived3596]

No. We don't allow speculation to that degree.

What do you mean "Speculation to that degree"? how is it that speculative when we have many-forms of supplemental evidence that Gremmy can grant himself abilities such as making his Skin as hard as Steel and even changing his Physiology, similarly to that of a slime to catch Kenpachi's Sword.

Honestly it takes more speculation to assume that he can't grant himself these abilities then that he can grant himself these abilities.

General Lee having Type 1, Aspect 1 seems fine.

But why would Gremmy get Nonexistent Physiology for creating General Lee? Unless Gremmy can do it to, he wouldn't receive that ability... same goes for Yhwach and Soul King.

Gremmy granted Lee that ability, through basic logical deduction he should be able to grant himself the same ability.

It takes more assumptions that he can't grant himself the ability compared that he can as i explained to Damage.

Just because you can great a power doesn't mean you can or will apply/give it to yourself. Especially since neither Yhwach or Gremmy ever show these abilities. It's better to stick with what each of these characters actually does then giving powers they never show. Helps cut down on needless fluff in profiles and sticks more in line with how they'd actually function.

He can grant himself abilities and them not in-character granting themselves the ability doesn't mean that they can't, that fallacious reasoning and would constitute an Argument from Ignorance. No? that doesn't make any-sense given Gremmy's capabilities which has shown the grant himself abilities. It would be illogical to assume some-sort of Objectivity when given such blatant statements and feats.

It isn't "Needless" as you claim, it's an ability that he most likely has and since this wiki profile indexing is entirely based around being most "Consistent" we should follow the most consistent argument which would be given Gremmy's Profile the ability because of what i explained to you and Damage.

 

[Reio35]

I don't understand how yhwach and sk have all the sternritters abilities on their profiles. Yet having Guenael Lee's abilities some how a stretch when he he's also a sternrriter.

 

[PrinceofPein]

If they were not shown to use it themselves, they don’t get it
It is as simple as that

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

If they were not shown to use it themselves, they don’t get it
It is as simple as that

SK Transcends the whole system in bleach so giving fodder character abilities to him makes sense.

 

[Teezar]

Gremmy should also get NEP as Guenael Lee was created from his imagination.

I'm iffy on this but agree with the rest.

 

[PrinceofPein]

SK Transcends the whole system in bleach so giving fodder character abilities to him makes sense.

We don’t scale people to hax or grant them hax they were not shown to use personally

 

[LordGinSama]

We don’t scale people to hax or grant them hax they were not shown to use personally

Yhwach has the Ritter powers despite never using them himself so this isn't always the case. Context is what matters first and foremost, and the SK has the Visionary as part of his literal biology.

I see no reason why the SK shouldn't gain NEP. Yhwach on the other hand shouldn't get it since he never absorbed the brain of the Soul King as far as I'm aware.

 

[Teezar]

Makes sense and I'm also iffy on gremmy getting it.

 

[ArachDusa]

Wouldn't Type 3 nature make more sense?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Yhwach has the Ritter powers despite never using them himself so this isn't always the case. Context is what matters first and foremost, and the SK has the Visionary as part of his literal biology.

I see no reason why the SK shouldn't gain NEP. Yhwach on the other hand shouldn't get it since he never absorbed the brain of the Soul King as far as I'm aware.

I am talking about the NEP not power bestowal
Of course the SK would have anything gremmy can do
But there is nothing that supports him gaining NEP of someone that gremmy created

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yhwach has the Ritter powers despite never using them himself so this isn't always the case. Context is what matters first and foremost, and the SK has the Visionary as part of his literal biology.

Yhwach kinda bestowed some things on himself like when his voice got cut down he bestowed voice. Possibly he can do the same well i am neutral for Yhwach

I see no reason why the SK shouldn't gain NEP. Yhwach on the other hand shouldn't get it since he never absorbed the brain of the Soul King as far as I'm aware.

Hey he never absorbed full body parts as per my understanding only one who he absorbed completely was Gerald body. Others we didn't see. Per example Jugram.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't see any reason why Gremmy would have this ability other than speculating "Gremmy could just imagine himself to have the ability".

Which is a horrific can of worms to open because then you can just say he can imagine himself to have any ability.

So it doesn't seem worth it to put it on his profile, and by extension Yhwach's or the Soul Kings.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I am talking about the NEP not power bestowal
Of course the SK would have anything gremmy can do
But there is nothing that supports him gaining NEP of someone that gremmy created

You are saying the man who Transcended everything in bleach cosmology can't bestow himself the same power that Gremmy gave it to some fodder character?.

 

[Xehanort1307]

It is logical that Gremmy should have this, i mean he created the dude with his powers


The Soul King also should have this by default since:

1) Gremmy is essentially his brain

2) He transcend everything in the verse so by logic he should have this


Yhwach also should since he was the one that granted Gremmy his powers

 

[PrinceofPein]

You are saying the man who Transcended everything in bleach cosmology can't bestow himself the same power that Gremmy gave it to some fodder character?.

I am not saying that, either you read to comprehension or ignore

 

[Damage3245]

2) He transcend everything in the verse so by logic he ahoukd have this

We don't give the Soul King the abilities of the entire verse based on this.

You need stronger evidence for characters to possess specific abilities.

It is logical that Gremmy should have this, i mean he created the dude with his powers

We don't give Gremmy an ability just because he could hypothetically gain it.

 

[Xehanort1307]

We don't give Gremmy an ability just because he could hypothetically gain it.

We shouldn't he have an ability he himself made?

 

[Damage3245]

We shouldn't he have an ability he himself made?

Yes.

 

[Xehanort1307]

Yes

So he created that power but he does not have it? For what reason?

 

[Damage3245]

So he created that power but he does not have it? For what reason?

Because he's never been shown to use it.

You could give him every power and ability in our list using the excuse "Well, he could have just imagined himself to use it".

We need to be strict with reality warpers, otherwise we go overboard with them.

So unless Gremmy used the ability himself, I am not in favor of just handing him abilities on the basis that he maybe could have done it.

 

[Xehanort1307]

Because he's never been shown to use it.

You could give him every power and ability in our list using the excuse "Well, he could have just imagined himself to use it".

We need to be strict with reality warpers, otherwise we go overboard with them.

So unless Gremmy used the ability himself, I am not in favor of just handing him abilities on the basis that he maybe could have done it.

I understand the reasoning, however it was stated that he himself created that power using The Visionary.

So i don't see why he should not have this power, since it is derivative of his own schrift.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I understand the reasoning, however it was stated that he himself created that power using The Visionary.

So i don't see why he should not have this power, sincs it is derivative of his own schrift.

Makes sense.

 

[Damage3245]

I understand the reasoning, however it was stated that he himself created that power using The Visionary.

So i don't see why he should not have this power, since it is derivative of his own schrift.

I understand you're point, but I don't think I have anything new to say on this. I've said my thoughts.

 

[Teezar]

He transcend everything in the verse so by logic he should have this

This isn't a good point to me.

 

[Xehanort1307]

This isn't a good point to me.

That is fine, i am mainly arguing from Gremmy at the moment

 

[Deceived3596]

Because he's never been shown to use it.

You could give him every power and ability in our list using the excuse "Well, he could have just imagined himself to use it".

We need to be strict with reality warpers, otherwise we go overboard with them.

So unless Gremmy used the ability himself, I am not in favor of just handing him abilities on the basis that he maybe could have done it.

That's an argument from ignorance and one that doesn't debunk any of are assertions given the context of The Visionary's capabilities.

Damage... this is a complete straw-man of everyone's positions, we're not arguing that "The Visionary" should have every ability ever we are arguing that given the supplemental evidence and the context of what "The Visionary's" capabilities are he should have this one specific ability.

Literally the argument is just "Visionary users have shown the ability to create and grant abilities onto themselves or others, as such Visionary users should be able to grant Lee's NEP onto themselves" Not "Visionary users can grant themselves and others abilities, as such they can grant themselves every ability ever"

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We are? that's why the entire thread is talking about one specific ability, not every ability under the sun.

Again this is fallacious reasoning as i explained previously, Damage you can't let your personal incredulity get in way of your logical thinking, you're basically saying "I rather abide by fallacious reasoning and argumentation rather then the context of the story and basic logical deduction"

 

[Damage3245]

@Deceived; Sorry, but I don't agree. Until I see more compelling evidence, I don't agree with giving Gremmy the ability himself.

Call it a strawman if you want, I don't particularly care. Call in more staff to give their opinions if you want.