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Right off the bat, this isn't necessarily a downgrade thread. This is more so a clarification thread. Upon rechecking some things, I believe some of the current points regarding our current cosmology set up needs fixing. To keep this somewhat simple, I will only tackle 3 topics in this crt
Four or so relevant prior crts:
Topic One: Soul Flow is stated to destroy the stars
ill talk about rukia and urahara's universe quote in topic 2. As for kakyo, the stars in question she wants to protect are not the ones in the sky.
By stars she means the good things in the world, The people. She says that the clouds want to take the stars away, in the same way how bad people take away the good things/people and she wants to preserve the good in the world.
Topic Two: The universe and 'Sekai"
Note I am inherently not trying to downgrade the size of the worlds accepted on size, only re evaluating specific parts of evidence.
This will most likely be the most controversial topic. Every usage of the word above is translated from the word "sekai". officially by Viz.
I will provide the raws for sekai in all of these, alongside an imgur folder of fan translations that chose to translate sekai as "world".
raws:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-obiymIIHcyOb_m5p9qLIWyqu3uGW52O8Q4zu7svWPc/edit?usp=sharing
fan translations:
So the important thing here is the meaning of the word sekai. Sekai is labeled by dictionaries such as jisho as being able to translate to universe, or world and society.
jisho.org
To quote someone:
“世界 means either "the world" or "the society" in regular usage, it absolutely does not mean "the universe" in the cosmic context of the word. It can only be translated into "universe" in a personal or social context like "my wife was my entire universe" and never to mean the actual physical universe.
In fact in Chinese 世界 almost always means "the society(usually human)" in a social context rather than any kind of physical world. Like for example 世界知名 means "world famous", and the "world" means human society, not the actual physical planet earth. Even if humans were a galactic civilization, 世界知名 still translates into "world famous" because "the world" means the entire human civilization, not the physical planet we're on, and it still means "famous in all human society" not "famous on planet earth".
A far more accurate English translation of that scene without ambiguities is almost certainly "the entire (soul? human?) society will collapse". In English "the world" has dual usage for both the physical planet and the social planet(ie human civilization) but in Chinese and almost certainly Kanji it only means the latter.”
大千世界 does not translate into "the boundless universe", it's a specific Buddhist metaphysical term.
For people here who don't know much about Buddhism, 大千世界 is usually translated into "three thousand realms" or "three thousand worlds" or "the infinite universe". But this is an extremely misleading and inaccurate translation because it doesn't even remotely mean what people usually think when they see these words.
In Buddhism a "world/realm" is actually an emotional state of being. There are ten states going from hell to buddha. The higher the state, the more freewill and happiness one obtains. They're not literal planets or dimensional or any such nonsense, they're metaphysical worlds within each living being.
The three thousand realms comes from basically really iffy ancient math. There are 10 "worlds" within each being, every being is capable of achieving all ten worlds, so 10x10 = 100 "worlds". This is multiplied by the ten factors of life(power, appearance, influence, etc) to get 1000 "worlds", and then this is multiplied by the actual three worlds(desire, form, formlessness) to get "three thousand worlds".
It's an extremely dense philosophical/religious term that is in no way intended for people to take literally that there are three thousand worlds."
Looking up sentence examples this seems to hold fairly true
jisho.org
Still, Viz is the official translator so I would like for this to be discussed in general here. Should we stick with these examples being treated as "universe" or "world"
Fully covered here:
Topic Three: The size of the realms during the senna feat
The realms in the film are not the dimensions, rather are in Other Dimensions
Furthermore
The dimension in question mentioned here can be the dangai itself. the ss and wotl are consistently called worlds in this film, both by urahara and mayuri:
It was also argued priorly that the color the worlds are shown as proves they cannot be planets in this film, due to what would be earth's color not matching up:
This ignores the fact its most likely the colorization from the interior of the dangai causing this color, as shown when senna's explosions go from a green colorization to yellow-reddish one when it pans out to the dangai.
Toshiro also uses hoshi when referring to both worlds in the film:
you might ask, "but cyber we know from the novels and other material they cannot be planets". That isnt entirely true, given yamamoto's bankai. The terms can refer to the central planets as well, which is visually supported to be the case here.
If you disagree with any of the three above takes, well that's why this crt exists. I'm more than open to discussion. Discuss!
Four or so relevant prior crts:
Topic One: Soul Flow is stated to destroy the stars
ill talk about rukia and urahara's universe quote in topic 2. As for kakyo, the stars in question she wants to protect are not the ones in the sky.
By stars she means the good things in the world, The people. She says that the clouds want to take the stars away, in the same way how bad people take away the good things/people and she wants to preserve the good in the world.
This will most likely be the most controversial topic. Every usage of the word above is translated from the word "sekai". officially by Viz.
I will provide the raws for sekai in all of these, alongside an imgur folder of fan translations that chose to translate sekai as "world".
raws:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-obiymIIHcyOb_m5p9qLIWyqu3uGW52O8Q4zu7svWPc/edit?usp=sharing
fan translations:
So the important thing here is the meaning of the word sekai. Sekai is labeled by dictionaries such as jisho as being able to translate to universe, or world and society.
sekai - Jisho.org
jisho.org
To quote someone:
“世界 means either "the world" or "the society" in regular usage, it absolutely does not mean "the universe" in the cosmic context of the word. It can only be translated into "universe" in a personal or social context like "my wife was my entire universe" and never to mean the actual physical universe.
In fact in Chinese 世界 almost always means "the society(usually human)" in a social context rather than any kind of physical world. Like for example 世界知名 means "world famous", and the "world" means human society, not the actual physical planet earth. Even if humans were a galactic civilization, 世界知名 still translates into "world famous" because "the world" means the entire human civilization, not the physical planet we're on, and it still means "famous in all human society" not "famous on planet earth".
A far more accurate English translation of that scene without ambiguities is almost certainly "the entire (soul? human?) society will collapse". In English "the world" has dual usage for both the physical planet and the social planet(ie human civilization) but in Chinese and almost certainly Kanji it only means the latter.”
大千世界 does not translate into "the boundless universe", it's a specific Buddhist metaphysical term.
For people here who don't know much about Buddhism, 大千世界 is usually translated into "three thousand realms" or "three thousand worlds" or "the infinite universe". But this is an extremely misleading and inaccurate translation because it doesn't even remotely mean what people usually think when they see these words.
In Buddhism a "world/realm" is actually an emotional state of being. There are ten states going from hell to buddha. The higher the state, the more freewill and happiness one obtains. They're not literal planets or dimensional or any such nonsense, they're metaphysical worlds within each living being.
The three thousand realms comes from basically really iffy ancient math. There are 10 "worlds" within each being, every being is capable of achieving all ten worlds, so 10x10 = 100 "worlds". This is multiplied by the ten factors of life(power, appearance, influence, etc) to get 1000 "worlds", and then this is multiplied by the actual three worlds(desire, form, formlessness) to get "three thousand worlds".
It's an extremely dense philosophical/religious term that is in no way intended for people to take literally that there are three thousand worlds."
Looking up sentence examples this seems to hold fairly true
世界 #sentences - Jisho.org
jisho.org
Still, Viz is the official translator so I would like for this to be discussed in general here. Should we stick with these examples being treated as "universe" or "world"
Fully covered here:
Topic Three: The size of the realms during the senna feat
The realms in the film are not the dimensions, rather are in Other Dimensions
Furthermore
The dimension in question mentioned here can be the dangai itself. the ss and wotl are consistently called worlds in this film, both by urahara and mayuri:
It was also argued priorly that the color the worlds are shown as proves they cannot be planets in this film, due to what would be earth's color not matching up:
This ignores the fact its most likely the colorization from the interior of the dangai causing this color, as shown when senna's explosions go from a green colorization to yellow-reddish one when it pans out to the dangai.
Toshiro also uses hoshi when referring to both worlds in the film:
you might ask, "but cyber we know from the novels and other material they cannot be planets". That isnt entirely true, given yamamoto's bankai. The terms can refer to the central planets as well, which is visually supported to be the case here.
If you disagree with any of the three above takes, well that's why this crt exists. I'm more than open to discussion. Discuss!
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