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Shuumatsu 4-A
- Thread starter Demon_Lord18
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I pretty much just woke up and I'm honestly not entirely convinced with this upgrade and the comments aren't making any better. So to make this easier for me to understand, can the OP quote the reasoning for 4-A (Not 3-A) first. I specifically mean the feat/statement that suggests 4-A because the this discussion is confusing me ngl.
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I'm with Griffin on this.
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Well, let me recap 4-A for you.
Let's start by introducing the "vahalla" being every location and "world" where the gods live
In the CRT what I observed was the doubt among people about whether Vahalla is just a planet, however the manga is extremely important that Vahalla IS THE ENTIRE WORLD where the gods inhabit.
Valhalla is shown to us several times with a vast starry sky
Zeus in his final form is said to have the ability to destroy the entire "sky" this being vahalla.
PrinceofPein
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"Don't go destroying heaven now you hear"Well, let me recap 4-A for you.
Let's start by introducing the "vahalla" being every location and "world" where the gods live
In the CRT what I observed was the doubt among people about whether Vahalla is just a planet, however the manga is extremely important that Vahalla IS THE ENTIRE WORLD where the gods inhabit.
Valhalla is shown to us several times with a vast starry sky
Zeus in his final form is said to have the ability to destroy the entire "sky" this being vahalla.
He went all out and did not hold back and still did not destroy the arena
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Does this also include 4-A?
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If it covers 4-A, I won't bother with this damn topic anymore, if not, I've proven everything I claimed, the rest is up to Griffin and US69
Demon_Lord18
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This only includes universal levels, it doesn't say anything about 4-A
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Yes
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Demon_Lord18
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Since you guys changed the main topic of the CRT and it already has 3 pages, I recommend doing another thread
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Fr fr wall level RoR
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I'm not sure if this is necessary
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Does anyone have a dislike button?Fr fr wall level RoR
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Fr fr wall level RoR
Oh, but they are so right
Scaling based on feats actually shown in the series rather than half-assed statements (This was a waste of time and little to do with the QRT, but **** it we ball)
Lü Bu: City Level+, possibly Mountain Level (This recalc hasn't been accepted yet, but it does show that people want to update it with the new rules changes0
Thor: City Level+, possibly Mountain Level
Adam: City Level+, possibly Mountain Level (Able to keep up with Zeus in his Adamas Form)
Zeus: Unknown (in all form accept Adamas), likely wall level (Should be superior to the rest of the cast). City Level+, possibly Mountain Level (True God's Right is considered the strongest strike. Tanked several hits from Adam)
Sasaki Kojirō: Wall Level
Poseidon: Wall Level (Tore through Adamas's body with ease, broke Kojirō's sword, crushed his own severed hand)
Jack the Ripper: Wall Level (Can crush cannonballs with his barehands and is superior to Mother Goose member Humpty Dumpty, survived attacks from Arthur Gray who can tear through steel with ease), possibly Small Building Level with divine weaponry (Can pierce Heracles's skin)
Heracles: Small Building Level (Considered massively superior to Jack the Ripper in physicality, smashed apart buildings in London in his battle with Jack the Ripper)
Tameemon Raiden: Wall Level (Has the strongest muscle in all of humanity, is the best sumo wrestler to ever exist) likely higher when shifting muscles at fullpower and speed (Tore Shiva apart, able to keep up with Shiva while in Tandava Karma)
Shiva: Wall Level (A young Shiva was superior to Rudra who can leave imprint of his fist in a stone wall), likely higher (Shiva and Rudra created a large shockwave that cleared the clouds around them???? Were able to degrade to the peak of Svarga over a long period of time)
Buddha: Wall Level (Casually kicked Zerofuku hard enough to cause him to bleed, clashed with Pāpīyas), possibly higher (Confident about fighting Zeus and later Odin)
Zerofuku: Wall Level (Attacks are strong enough to force Buddha to have to defend himself against them, smashed up the arena with his attacks)
Pāpīyas: Wall Level (Tore a hole through Asura Realm, Avalokitesvara: Shield of Ahimusa, broke the blade of Petra Realm, Thousand-Armed Avalokitesvara: Warscythe of Salakaya and later shattered Buddha's Six Realm Staff) possibly higher (Buddha considered him a threat, created a storm above the arena upon his resurrection)
Qin Shi Huang: Wall Level (Survived a fight with Chi You, tore Hades arm with a kick, broke the rules of his own series by somehow managing to stab Hades with his zhijiatao despite it not being a divine weapon)
Hades: Wall Level (Smashed the arena up with his normal attack, cut Qin Shi Huang with just the wind from his attacks, defeated the army of escaped Titans all by himself)
Nikola Tesla: Wall Level (Tore apart the arena from how badly he whiffed his attacks, {Beelzebub considered a strike from Tesla to be comparable to a casual strike from a Hades who wasn't trying to kill Beelzebub while he was in a weakened state}, crushed Beelzebub's fingers with his
Beelzebub: Unknown physically, Wall Level with vibration (Tore through the arena and Tesla's suits with casual attacks), likely City Level+, possibly Mountain Level with Chaos (A move so strong its considered taboo to perform, caused Zeus to panic upon seeing Beelzebub perform it)
King Leonidas: Small Building Level
Apollo: Unknown Physically, possibly Wall Level (Hurt Python with his physical strike who is superior to Ares's soldiers), Small Building Level with Threads of Artemis (Able to hurt Leonidas with his attacks)
Over all, the whole "Don't go destroying Heaven" line seems more like hyperbole rather than an indication about Zeus's true power, its just Shiva telling Zeus not to over do it/go wild. It matches the scene where Loki talks about how its rare that Zeus goes all out like that and how Zeus is fight battle lustful in this series.
PrinceofPein
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What else is left to do here? This should be closed and if there is any other argument for 4A, it can be made
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From where? There is nothing related to 4-A in the topic rule you created, and I'm currently waiting for Griffin and other moderators to look at the arguments I presented.
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terrible
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Tis the truth
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Anyway, let's avoid filling this topic with unnecessary comments. Also, if there is anyone who thinks it should be closed, they can send me a link to a topic rule for 4-A ror.
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Nobody is saying there's a topic rule against 4A. People are saying that this thread is already filled up with stuff irrelevant to 4A which makes it unnecessarily hard to read through. So it's better to open a new thread specifically about 4A and focus on it there.
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Additionally, there's also a lot of arguments against 4A. There's a few people that agreed with it but I've only seen one or two people actually argue for it
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What arguments are directly against it?
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Mostly that the statements are just hyperbole with no real backing to them
Things like Tandava Karma burning down the world and rebuilding it in ashes, doesn't work since its either overtime since Shiva slowly burns his body while using the form or just not true since this is first time Shiva used the form and for some reason already has an excerpt about the ability. It also relies on mythology to back up the idea of the world meaning heaven and not the planet, which is pretty unreliable given that Record of Ragnarok barely follow mythology
The other is the Zeus statement which is just Shiva say "Don't go destroying Heaven". I've already said why that a bad argument for 4A since its just banter
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Is there any evidence that the statements are just hyperbolic? If no then it's not really an argument.
Do you have any evidence for why that's just banter? Also you forgot about this.
"capable of shattering earth" sounds pretty straight forward. Overall thats at least 3 different planet destroying statements so it looks pretty consistent.
As for the lack of visual evidence that should be pretty simple. The plot of the series is restricted to an arena made out of an unknown substance. There's no room for destructive feats so statements are the only way the author can give us a scale of power.
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"Capable of shattering earth" is via the narration, which makes it slightly more believable...If it weren't for the fact that its a quote from the Prose Edda which got disproven multiple times in the series. In fact it was in the very fight where they said the Prose Edda had misinformation about the gods in Record of Ragnarok.
Shiva's statement has little to no weight to it. Its more of the equivalent of "Take it easy, man" rather than "Holy shit, Zeus is going to shatter all of reality if he ***** a little too hard."
The entire argument for 4A relies on the quote for Shiva's Tandava Karma form, "the whole burn the world to ash and rebuild it", which doesn't work for the reasons mentioned before
And there's what Shiva said about Zeus... Which has so little backing it up that there's no way it possibly be used to justify any higher scaling than what he already has.
All this QTR did was prove that, yes, Heaven in Record of Raganrok is a universe. Sadly, that doesn't upgrade anything cause nothing scales to the cosmology as of now. The new rule that was established was basically put in place to stop the repetitive attempts to upgrade the series based off the same points, it says universal cause that what people had tried to do in the past, this QTR is just trying to do the same thing but with 4A instead.
This is a verse that barely supports Planet Level, unless new evidence is shown off later, Solar System and Universal are just plain unbelievable. Record of Ragnarok shows feats in the flashbacks and spin-offs, so just trying to justify a lack of showings to them being limited to the arena is just wrong. The series dedicates a whole ass flashback to just show off how strong Sky Eater was
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this thread seems to be finished. Also the downgrading the verse via lack of visuals/hyperbole was already rejected, so it would just be a necro crt anyways
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Planet level is fine for now, it just trying to upgrade with the information we have now that is the problem
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I agree with you, with the current evidence displayed, 4-A or higher isn't reliable. On the wiki we should stick to Planetary for now as its what constantly portrayed.
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Doesn't matter since it was used to describe in-universe Thor.
That's just an assumption tho.
I don’t think the rest is really relevant and I'm too tired to go reply to it so I'll leave it at that
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The calculation has problems that I have not had time to fix, it will be lower
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I can see the problem with 4-A. While he's telling him no go and destroy heaven, it's still unknown how it would actually happen, like if a single punch will obliterate all of heaven or would it be the collateral of multiple strikes preformed by him. Without extra feats or more clear cut statements I don't think 4-A is plausible at the moment. If their more in line with 5-B through statements (even if casual), even a possible 4-A rating is practically out the window. I don't know the series so there isn't much else I can say but I'm on the disagree side. At it's absolute best he'd/they get possibly higher from this statement in my opinion.
PrinceofPein
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He already has a "Higher" on his profile due to the adamas form. He has a single new ability with the adamas form, so it is not enough to give it a new key
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Wouldn't it be possible to count how many attacks Zeus can throw in his Adamas form before running out of juice and dividing the 4A value by it? I can't find the calc in the common feats page but iirc destroying a dimension with a starry sky calcs at around 10^61J. Even if it took Zeus 200 punches to do this it should still land around 5e58J which is still 20x above baseline 4-A
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Or we can just wait till the fights are done. We have like 2 more left so waiting for further fests should be our best bet before we make anymore statistics changes.
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I mean, on one hand I agree it's best to scale a verse after the series is over, but on the other that might take actual years. A single round is often around 12 chapters long with even the shortest round being 7 chapters long, and the Manga is monthly. Even if there's no major content besides the 2 more rounds (which seems unlikely as we have at least 3 Gods left to fight and a premordial god + Bruns boyfriend plot lines set up) we could still have to wait for well over 2 years.
+ we already have 2 spin offs, one for Lu Bu and one for Jack so we could also very much get another spin off and have to wait until that's over.
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