• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Bleach - accepting Memories of Nobody as canon

Status
Not open for further replies.
I have to retreat for the night due to college stuff, but I will reiterate my points for now that show the movie could not be non-canon.

1) Per Kubo's own words in Volume 69, Chapter 627:

ÕŽÞ░ÀÒü½ÒüñÒüäÒü»ÕèçÕá┤þëêþ¼¼õ©Çõ¢£ÕÅéþàºÒÇé

This translates to:

"For Valley of Screams, check out the first movie film."

So Kubo sees the movie as canon as he himself as said the film is important
Kubo Valley of Screams
Vol. 69 Pg. 96 Chapter 627

in canon information in regards to the Valley of Screams.
2) Supporting this we have Ichigo himself saying that he has been in the Valley of Screams. Ichigo has only been there in the Memories of Nobody movie, the exact movie that Kubo has said for readers to see for canon information.

3) To show that this fits into the Bleach timeline that Kubo made, Rukia already had her powers in this movie and no one had any power-ups from the Arrancar Arc training. This movie also occurs over a few days. This all leads to one spot in the Bleach timeline that it perfectly fits. The 1 month time skip after Grimmjow's invasion and before Luppi's invasion.


To sum up:

Kubo himself said to see Memories of Nobody as it holds canon information to the main Bleach manga. Ichigo has been to the Valley of Screams which only happens in Memories of Nobody that Kubo said to watch for canon information. And it fits into the timeline without any issues whatsoever.

In Conclusion:

The movie should be seen as canon, nothing contradicts it any way, WoG and characters accept it.

I hope the discussion remains civil while I sleep and wake up.
 
The fact that this is a Bleach Anime Movie made by the people who were animating the anime at the time?

You know, the same reason we consider every Dragon Ball Movie up until Battle of Gods an anime-movie. The same reason the same applies to all One Piece Movies and all Naruto movies up until The Last?


That's not how it works. The movies aren't based on the anime, movies are just that. Movies, the anime is the anime. It's pretty simple to understand, unless you wanna say that all this happened in the anime. Which clearly isn't the case. Memories of Nobody isn't based on the anime. And no, we don't use One Piece movies at all, let alone the anime.
 
AstralKing7 said:
bruh Blood prison has been mention in more than just a the manga or anime its also been mentioned Boruto and a light novel so it has more proof of being canon than Bleach does actually
Click to expand...
 
ProfessorLord said:
Correct, this doesn't inherently mean its canon. I understand this concept very well and how it applies in other works of fiction. However, him using it as reference for fans and writing about it while having no objections (like we've seen with Toriyama on GT) lends more credibility to it being canon.

I don't know if you understand this but not mentioning/forgetting important notable events characters and powerups do count as contradictions. This happens in every Dragon Ball movie I can think of.
Click to expand...
So why should we immediately assume it is just because it could be? Again, that's a leap in logic. There needs to be conclusive proof that it is. Saying that "It is a puzzle that fits!" is more like being dramatic about a basic thing: That filler is put in the gaps left in the original work. It doesn't mean we should automatically assume it is canon if there's no contradictions.

Toriyama has no objections on GT, btw. That is Toeiland Continuity. He has no say on what Toei decides there.

The Dragon Ball Z movies could fit with the anime a lot, but aside from three of them there's no confirmation so they aren't considered Canon.
 
Soldier Blue agreeing with you doesn't make you right,several times we in this thread have introduced new infromation to him that he didn't know about.

Every other Bleach supporter here agrees with it's canonicity.If that is your argument.
 
@Antvasima can we just take a vote on whether or not the movie is canon or not?

To clarify author hasn't said it was non-canon, it's just a baseline assumption, problem me and others still have is that we think there's enough evidence to warrant the author believes it is canon and therefore it should be treated as so.

I think this is the perfect scenario to vote on.
 
@IMade

Again, Kubo saying "Check the movie" isn't the same as him saying "The events of the movie happened". Kishimoto has done the same with the Naruto movies as they aired. Doesn't make them canon.

A lack of contradictions isn't an argument, as detailed time and again by myself and Everlasting. What is required is conclusive, positive proof.

Saying that it could fit, and then basically interpreting the scraps of reference that exist to mean that it is Canonical is a theory. It is not a valid thing to use. Your theory is that this all means that it is canon, but really nothing says that.
 
@Antvasima

He hasn't debunked anything.I'm gonna need you to cite a single debunk.Trying to shut down discussions and write rules against their creation again solves nothing.
 
It's hard to consider an argument as valid when there is zero proof supporting it other than what people assume about such movies.
 
Antvasima said:
Also, if this is a repeated discussion, perhaps we need a discussion rule after it has finished.
Click to expand...
This could be good. It would just be brought up again months later.

@Frantzy

Nope, no new information was given. Legit I brought up everything in my original post:

1. The statement about the Valley of Screams in the manga.

2. The Kubo comment in the end of the chapter.

Those are the only two things that are there to discuss. Everything else, such as "Oh, there's no contradiction", "Oh, it could fit here" prove nothing, and start reaching into speculation territory.

As long as there is no official confirmation that it is Canon, it isn't cano. This is just how it works.
 
AstralKing7 said:
when did Kubo say the movie was important canon information tho lol. Is that how it seems to you??
Click to expand...
The funny thing is that he didn't. His comment is literally "For the Valley of Screams, check the movie". It is literally him just referencing the fact that the movie exists and that's where he took the idea of putting it in the manga. It's a reference / nod, not a hard confirmation.
 
Js250476 said:
Unless Kubo straight up says it's canon then it won't be considered to be canon simple as that
And using a one off mention of a location that could be interpreted in many different ways isn't good enough evidence
Click to expand...
^^^^^
 
vote not going to fix this cuz it going to affect all vers

1.many manga author's are involve with movie, anime, game yet they are not canon if this filler movie become canon here then other vers's filler movie will become canon too .

2.i have seen in some manga they announce new anime/movie start but that doesnt make it canon does it ?

3. we have to make all filler movie canon if they they have reference/ announcement in manga.
 
He brough up the location because of where they were at the moment.Kubo tells us to go see it for more information to see what Ichigo did there,since he was in that location already.

4641403-8143071895-46398.png
4641404-3920221159-46398.png
4641405-5633118604-46398.png
4641406-4222121999-46402
 
And? A location being made canon =/= The movie being made canon. What exactly is your argument? This has been responded to dozens of times now by multiple people. This is literally circular reason.

Also, why are you still using the translation that has incredibly natural sounding senteces like "Someone like you that only cares for the cute and keeps whatever she finds cute there's no way you'd keep it after seeing it" (Sarcasm).
 
@ProfessorLord

We do not tend to put these types of discussions to a vote. It would be easy to stack the ballots with people who are biased for or against a certain franchise along with temporary accounts.

We go by who has the better arguments, and then the staff evaluate what seems reasonable.

@Matthew

Feel free to write a suggestion for a discussion rule when you think that it is appropriate.
 
What are you talking about, I posted each scan in order.

The point is Ichigo has been there,and the movie tells us what he did there.
 
@Frantzy

No? Ichigo saying that he went there before does not mean the movie happened. As an analogy, imagine if at some point in Super Goku and Vegeta had done the Fusion Dance and Gogeta showed up. And when questioned about it, Vegeta simply said that he learned the fusion Dance with Goku before.

Would this make Janemba / Fusion Reborn Canon? Absolutely not. In the years in the story he could have learned it at any given point.

@Antvasima

Will do.
 
Don't double post, Mysterious Man. And that is objectively false. If I was the only one arguing against that'd be something, but the majority including All Staff is actually against.
 
I do not care about other series an example,DBZ isn't Bleach.

It does mean it happened because it is the only time he has been there,you haven't debunked this at all.

All of your evidence is what other series have done,which has no meaning to Bleach itself since were discussing this series.
 
I'm still not understanding this logic. Kubo, the man that created Bleach, directly took the time to write a message to fans telling them to check out the movie for more information regarding the valley. In a chapter where Ichigo directly states he's been there. When nowhere in theanga(your canon source) has Ichigo gone to the valley, and yet the director is telling you watch the movie to fill in the gaps.. that stamp at the end of the chapter is basically a stamp of approval for the movie itself this includes the events that happened, as that is the ONLY creditable source of information regarding Ichigo being there.

This isn't about any other series but bleach so why are we referencing other series. Every director and writer is different and views there work different. You'll ask for an official statement or call out the make the movie canon...Kubo did just that by telling his fans to go watch a 8 year old movie to get more information on the valley and thus explains why Ichigo was there. Then by watching the movie today you find out why it's not mentioned as much in the series due to memory loss.

Maybe I'm not as popular on this site but I'd like to also get the opinions of more staff members and bleach context creators.

So even if it's not accepted as canon we should still calc the relevant feats as it does indeed matter. And that should extend to any anime.movie for a series. It could drastically change a battle in more way then one. Like people scaling over Senna.
 
That's not at all what's happening, Regis. all that's being done is that we reached a point where the discussion has become completely circular, while also there being no official statements that definitively prove the movie as canon.

Such rules exist to serve everyone the headache of making everyone go through this dance again 4 months from now.

@Lord

One, Kubo isn't the director of the movie. Secondly, for the last time the Valley being made Canon doesn't make the movie Canon. The reference about him bein there doesn't conclusively make the movie Canon. It might mean that, or it might not.

I'm not sure your point about authors and other series even is? We wouldn't do that for any other series either. We're being fair to Bleach. I even say that the moment Kubo says it's canon, it can be considered. Such a statement does not exist, however.

The feats were calced at NF tho. The Blanks' feat which would only scale to the Soul King is Low 5-B. Senna doesn't scale to anyone. She's a non-combative character who performs her feat due to her very specific role and it results in her death.
 
A staff member could argue that 2 + 2 = 1 and they'd still be right. So I can't say that I'm really surprised with the conclusion here. Anyway I'm about done here, see ya.
 
It's only become circular because one side is practically ignoring the arguments without reason and then they go and claim that the discussion's over.
 
Honestly, I dont even think a discussion rule is needed for this yet. Its just suprising on how there can be this much discussion after like a huge unanimus discussion was made the last time where practically everyone agreed to it being non canon on a well written detailed post.

That said, if the staff feels otherwise I have absolutely no problem with a new discussion rule.
 
I have a problem because it seems like they want to avoid discussing anything that goes against them under the idea that it's disruptive.
 
@Regis

Ignoring Arguments was what the side in support was doing.

"The Valley of Screams is in the Manga / Ichigo said he went there"

"Cool, but that doesn't mean the movie is canon because..."

"But the Valley of Screams is in the Manga / Ichigo said he went there"

^ This is the whole thread, minus the odd insult here and there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Bernkastelll
(1 more STAFF NEEDED) Murder Drones Low 2-C or 3-A upgrade.
2 3
Replies
80
Views
4K
Qawsedf234
Qawsedf234
Guacamolefletcher
  • Locked
New Bleach discussion rule - formally ruling against the non-canon film
Replies
22
Views
3K
IdiosyncraticLawyer
IdiosyncraticLawyer
Arc7Kuroi
  • Locked
Bleach Fade to Black Seireitei Statement
2 3 4
Replies
124
Views
10K
KingTempest
KingTempest
DontTalkDT
The Disastrous State of Saiki K.'s profile
2
Replies
56
Views
7K
Shadow-Ragna
Shadow-Ragna
StoneKillerz12
Star Wars Cosmology Revision (Part 1 of 4: Legends Cosmology Overview)
4 5 6
Replies
215
Views
13K
Qawsedf234
Qawsedf234
Back
Top