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Bill Cipher correction/revision/downgrade

Sound of Infinity said:
And according to PaChi, Hakai is 4-D. I can assure you that if it was 4-D then Frieza would've never resisted it.
Click to expand...
A feat is a feat so it could be 4-D.

Limiting the haxs to specific level would be extremely convoluted by my experiences in revisions and would make most vs thread, CRT, and profiles a pain to evaluate.
 
If AD itself is totally transcendent of undertale, there's no reason for it's abilities to he beyond infinitely weaker than itself.
 
The 2-A via law doesn't make sense since Bill seems unbothered by the destruction of the multiverse so he logically is able to survive the destruction of the multiverse since he's deemed a threat to the multiverse. Bill not surviving the multiverse destruction would not make sense, so overall the 2-A rating makes sense.
 
Excuse me? The destruction is not done through an explosion. It litirally just falls apart.

In-fact, last time he was paet of a destruction of a reality he had to litirally run away.


And again, this is assuming that baby mean the multiverse as a whole.
 
Wokistan said:
If AD itself is totally transcendent of undertale, there's no reason for it's abilities to he beyond infinitely weaker than itself.
Click to expand...
Well, it's Ricsi who said that Doggo's haxes are 4-D. Plus Mxy doesn't have 5-D Plot and EE still stands.
 
Ignoring the several people who disagree with his tier, this is litirally like me telling a story. I have complete plot over the story, but it isn't aplicable to the real world.

The dog could program undertale, and it didn't even do it on porpuse, and it took it a lot of time, but programming doesn't give you reality warping in the real world.
 
Sound of Infinity said:
Wokistan said:
If AD itself is totally transcendent of undertale, there's no reason for it's abilities to he beyond infinitely weaker than itself.
Click to expand...
Well, it's Ricsi who said that Doggo's haxes are 4-D. Plus Mxy doesn't have 5-D Plot and EE still stands.
Click to expand...
Ricsi is not always correct. The problem seems to be about tiers and hax which could affect the ratings of hundreds of characters that something that you should take up with DarkLK, the expert on the topics.
 
Same with Beerus, who never hakai'd a 4D being

Can

You

Stop

Derailing.
 
Under the current system, Hax is rated to be Dimensional Tiering feats and usually AP feat is a great indicator of the hax ranking. So in this case, Beerus hakai is 4-D, Annoying Dog's hax is 5-D, and Mister Mxyzptlk's hax is 5-D. This is generally true for other characters unless other the situation contradicts it. So to be frank, either this hax tiering stay or a massive revision occurs that involves thousands of profiles occurs: Hax resistance during versus matchups
 
Nedge1000 said:
Under the current system, Hax is rated to be Dimensional Tiering feats and usually AP feat is a great indicator of the hax ranking. So in this case, Beerus hakai is 4-D, Annoying Dog's hax is 5-D, and Mister Mxyzptlk's hax is 5-D. This is generally true for other characters unless other the situation contradicts it. So to be frank, either this hax tiering stay or a massive revision occurs that involves thousands of profiles occurs: Hax resistance during versus matchups
Click to expand...
I mean, that was my point the whole time.

@Everyone what should be done with Bill?
 
I think that Ryukama is knowledgeable about Gravity Falls. You should probably ask him to comment here.

It is also good if you use the Knowledgeable Members List and the Gravity Falls verse page for the same purpose.
 
@PaChi How am I derailing? Beerus's hakai has never shown to be 4-D. It never erased a 4-D being.

If you consider this derailing, we can bring this to my wall or your wall.
 
Sound of Infinity said:
@PaChi How am I derailing? Beerus's hakai has never shown to be 4-D. It never erased a 4-D being.

If you consider this derailing, we can bring this to my wall or your wall.
Click to expand...
This is about Bill. About Bill. Beerus has nothing to do with Bill and I dont care if hakai is 4D, 11D or a googolplexD.
 
@PaChi

Are you talking about haxes should always be scaled to AP? Like Bill's haxes should be 4-D haxes because he has 4-D AP or sth like that?
 
@Sound

That's a discussion for a different thread.

This is about how powerful Bill is, it has nothing to do with Beerus
 
I agree that it is much better if everybody try to stay on topic.
 


But....

Beerus name pronounciation is "Bills". ovo

I chuckled.
 
I thought everyone was talking about Bill's haxes should be scaled to his AP so I was giving example. Because I watched GF and Bill never affected a 4D being. Sorry for derailing, but I'm confused about the situation here.
 
I just read this. I will elaborate my thoughts later if I have the time.
 
"Time Baby claimed that Bill could destroy the very fabric of existence" shows a video of Time Baby saying this while putting a hologram of X space thing exploiting as a side effect of Bill ripping the dimension continuities, Ricsi saying "Bill Cipher only has 4D power with one skill" is only from what Bill has shown. It would be a stretch and a headcanon to say that he's only 2-A via removing laws/chaos, is ripping the dimension continuities Law/Chaos Manipulation an affirmative yes?

>"I think he's second and third key should be simply fused. The only thing that the barrier did was limit his range"

I brought this before but everyone was too busy allowing both the wank and downplay of the profile to the point where is now an irreparable mess. This is accurate, and now we should not forget at all about it.

>"he's mindhax resistance should be either removed (since reddit clarifies that fiddle saw bill naked, and we don't give cthulhu resistance) or changed to resisiting madness manip."

I say removed, not against the other option tho.

>"[Some of the cases of lol inconsistencies therefore downgrades]"

I heavily disagree with this... Except his dura being unknown, because magic. In any case, if we are going to still sometimes allow inconsistencies and sometimes not and refuse to simply make a page explaining how to correctly deal with that then downgrade everything you guys want. I already discussed stuff for this verse based on unwritten rules, I'm not doing that sh*t again.

>"the only thing I want to know is why bill is in his profile with 2-A AP and Dura but in the vsthreads its alwaya "Bill cant affect 4Ds with his hax" or "Bill cant multiverse bust, its done through his law manipulation"."

For the first one, because he's a 3-D being with 4D power, no Higher-Dimensional Existence. For the second, I have never heard that before.

>"This rating is based on a statement, it assumes that the statement was referring to the multiverse as a whole"

"The very fabric of existence=Multiverse"=An assumption? What?

>"and it even goes out of it's way to assume that bill is ca0able of doing this at will."

Being a threat to the multiverse? Yes. Ripping the dimension continuities? Yes.
 
"the only thing I want to know is why bill is in his profile with 2-A AP and Dura but in the vsthreads its alwaya "Bill cant affect 4Ds with his hax" or "Bill cant multiverse bust, its done through his law manipulation"."

  • Seems like a downplay and it should not count as a vote or valid argument if nothing mentioned is directly stated on his profile.

>"This rating is based on a statement, it assumes that the statement was referring to the multiverse as a whole"

"The very fabric of existence=Multiverse"=An assumption? What?

>"and it even goes out of it's way to assume that bill is ca0able of doing this at will."

Being a threat to the multiverse? Yes. Ripping the dimension continuities? Yes.

 
>"the only thing I want to know is why bill is in his profile with 2-A AP and Dura but in the vsthreads its alwaya "Bill cant affect 4Ds with his hax" or "Bill cant multiverse bust, its done through his law manipulation"."

I mean can I see a scan where he affected 4Ds? Watched GF and never seen he affected a single 4D being.
 
Sound of Infinity said:
>"the only thing I want to know is why bill is in his profile with 2-A AP and Dura but in the vsthreads its alwaya "Bill cant affect 4Ds with his hax" or "Bill cant multiverse bust, its done through his law manipulation"."
I mean can I see a scan where he affected 4Ds? Watched GF and never seen he affected a single 4D being.
Click to expand...
@Sound of Infinity, the multiverse is 4-D. Hax feat is related to Dimensional Tiering and not the identity of what was affected; in this case, it is 4-D. So since Bill can affect 4-D construct like multiverse then he should be able to affect 4-D being. Changing this system, which has shown to be generally, would require a massive overhaul to thousands of profiles.
 
@Nedge The only hax he used to affect 4Ds is Time Manipulation (there are some more but I can't list them all). He never mindhaxed a 4D being or anything like that. I don't think hax should always be scaled to dimensional tiering.
 
1. Don't bump threads 3 hours after their last post.

2. This thread cannot be concluded until another thread has concluded, don't bump this until that thread's over.
 
I have no knowledge on GF but:

"The very fabric of existence=Multiverse"=An assumption? What?

Yes it's an assumption. It depends from how big "existence" is according to Time Baby. Does he know about the infinite multiverse?

Being a threat to the multiverse is not a 2-A feat. Never has been, and never will be. Any character with access to the entire multiverse and enough power to wipe out anything in its path is "a threat to the multiverse".

Or is DBZ Frieza 3-A for being a universal threat now?
 
Yeah, I know that thread. Honestly the only thing that bothers me is some evidence that Time Baby knows that the multiverse is infinite.

Because if he only knows his own universe, that's Low 2-C. If he knows there are 14788326889 universes, it's 2-B.

If he actually knows the entire cosmology, it's 2-A
 
Lol threat to the multiverse is for the sake of context, that is all for that part. There is no evidence that Time Baby knows that the multiverse has ∞ universes, but I can probably find evidence that he knows about the multiverse, would that be enough?
 
I wouldn't say that it would be enough for 2-A, but it would be enough for "Can destroy the amount of universes Time Baby knows about".

Granted, that stuff should probably be evaluated by staff members familiar with the verse, like Ryu and Azzy (Maybe they know some stuff I'm not aware of making 2-A legit)
 
Well, I mean... (this no evidence of nothing but:) Wouldn't it be super weird to have a conversation with someone and say something while believing it has a meaning while in reality has a higher meaning the other person knows but you don't?

Like, Bill knows the multiverse is infinite, so how does he sees Time Baby's claim? Low 2-C or 2-A? Surely he wasn't going to die by it, do we have to assume that he doesn't know that Time Baby isn't aware of the multiverse being infinite like he himself knows?
 
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