Ben 10 Cosmology Downgrades & Other Things (Yes, this is happening again)

[Antvasima]

My last response until later when free.


Derrick wasn't the one who answered the other questions, it was Duncan, a different creator. And those answers from Duncan differ from one where he answers that there are as many universes as there are ones in the multiverse, where different physicsts have different views on the multiverse, and that there could be as many as infinite to as low as 12. This one answer is the only answer from him that has any depth to it and this one doesnt give any confirmation of which is the case.

We then have another answer from one of the other creators apart of Man of Action, Joe Kelly, that doesnt mention anything about infinite universes.

These authors give different answers from each other that don't line up.

Okay. If there is no coordinated official consensus, that obviously greatly undermines the validity, and we should preferably stick to officially published information only in this regard.

 

[Reiner04]

And those answers from Duncan differ from one where he answers that there are as many universes as there are ones in the multiverse,

He said there are as many universes as there are in the multiverse. To the question how many universes there are in Ben 10? He was referring to that number of universes in Ben 10 is all are limited upto multiverse. Nothing much.

where different physicsts have different views on the multiverse,

It was statement about naljians dimensions iirc and shouldn't be link with dimensions as in sense universes.

and that there could be as many as infinite to as low as 12.

His later post gives the confirmation that it's infinite tho. Which is supported by all other authors and by the show.

 

[Reiner04]

Also I would like to say that OP doesn't have any proper evidence against 2A universe. So if you have found any yet, then kindly update it.

 

[Omegabronic]

The point is, the writer is being put into the position to give an answer specifically in relation to the topic, one they more than likely don't care about as something like this

can you prove that they don't care? considering that the massive plot points of ultimate alien and omniverse are about this, i would that they care very much

, especially if in response to a battleboarding question like these

how are any of these battleboarding questions? they are just asking an important part of the ben 10 lore and narrative

, isn't of concern to them and they don't have to answer truthfully with having the context of their series in mind when delivering an answer, but giving an answer to fans to get them to stop asking them questions like that. Aka, throwing them a bone.

see you would need to prove that they are doing that, we can say that Duncan at least isn't, since he consider twitter as a valid metod to give answers regarding the series

Since your side is the side that wants to use these social media answers as legitimate evidence, you are the one with the burden of proof proving they can be taken seriously and are not just some random, uncaringly made answers.

no, we have no reason nor proof of them being "uncaring" you are the one with the positive that they are "uncaring" so you are the one who has to prove it, i don't need to prove a negative

An example I can think of is Pokemon's case. There is a full on interview between one of the franchise creators, Junichi Masuda, and an interviewer when being asked questions about the Gen 4 Pokemon games, Diamond and Pearl.

In that interview (which is already a better source as, unlike social media, an interview allows for the creator to be asked questions, so it's permitted)

what is that supposed to mean?

, Masuda was never asked anything about the size of the Pokemon world or how big the cosmology is. Despite that, he gave a well clarified and detailed answer about what "the ultimate" was for Pokemon games, and spoke about what he tried conveying in the storyline for the Gen 4 games that involved the introduction of Space-Time to the series, where time and space were both infinite and that the deities (The Lake Trio, Dialga, and Palkia) were made to give balance.

That is an example as he came to that conclusion himself without being asked anything specific about the cosmology and it was well clarified.

and that makes the direct questions about the topic less valid because? both are doing the same thing in the end of the day, so again, i don't see the problem

This would then assume that Duncan and the other creators had the context of the series and it's storyline in mind when giving these answers on twitter, something that there's no evidence for.

you didn't adress my point, you said that the writers would likely not care about details such as the number of universes since it isn't important to the writing of the series, i explained why it is important in this case so by your logic they would care, i don't why being on twitter matter

But it's interesting you bring this up, so let's play devils advocate for a moment.

Look at one of Duncan's responses to a fan that I linked in the OP:

Notice how this answer to a fan is the ONLY answer Duncan gives, out of all the ones posted, that is actually clarified and thought is attempted to be put in the answer and isn't just some one quick vague "yes/no" answer. This could be argued to be allowed as it actually goes deeper than the others do.

excuse me? "the ONLY answer"? what makes this an answer and the others not? how is "yes/no" vague? if a question is simple, than then would only need a simple answer, if someone asks "are you a human being?" would say "yes/no" or would you explain why you are a human? same logic here, you have to explain this or else your point just doesn't make sense

But then also notice how this answer, unlike the one worded ones, is actually less clear and does the opposite? His answer here, unlike the others, speaks about physicist's having different ideas about the scope of the multiverse, where there could be infinite worlds but also be as low as only 12. This answer doesn't give any confirmation either way.

opposite? it coroborates, he says that the ben 10 multiverse would have as much as our own multiverse, to which he then explains what he means by that and talks about the different interpretations irl, what he says in in line with all the other answers and the show, since infinite is a posibility in real life, it is true in universe and it is the vision that they use for the show as shown in the other answers, since even in ultimate alien it is made clear that there isn't just 12 universes

If you want an argument beyond me just referring our site rule, then heres this. What's stopping me from arguing Duncan is unreliable because of his answers contradicting each other? Or how his only clarified answer out of them all doesn't give confirmation?

the fact that they don't contradict each other?
it does give confirmation, for their vision about the said multiverse in the series, that along with in universe statements and other answers from him and others, confirm that the "infinite" part of this explanation is the one used

Duncan's not the only one either. We can look at Joe Kelly's response to, which doesn't even speak about any number of universes.

this part was used for the "the universe is made of numerous space-times universal dimensions" argument

Then with Derrick giving a one worded infinite answer.

the problem with it being?

All these creators giving different answers that don't line up with each other.

different answers? the only one that it is different is Kelly's, and even then she is not talking about the wider multiverse so idk why that's relevant

Not unless "infinite" is referring to "Ad Infinitum", which is 2-B. Time being infinite would be time going on forever.

which from an outsider of time viewer would mean infinite universes, since it would be seeing all of the past, present and future, aka all the posibilities, from which are infinite, the whole reason for why ad infinitum is considered countless is because possibilities go on and stack endlessly and keep creating more more with each timeframe, with infinite time the time frame for possibilities is infinite so if someone goes out of time, aka ben 10's time stream, all the infinite possibilities that would be created in the future would already be there

See above. And if Ad Infinitum speaks about alternate timelines, that makes my above interpretation even more of a possibility, that it goes on forever and each possibility is being born forever as it goes on, but does not reach infinite in number.

read above

This also kind of goes back to what Paradox says too when explaining the multiverse to Ben and NW Ben. Why would Paradox say "many Ben Tennysons" and "Many universes" and "Many timelines" if there are supposed to be infinite ones?

for a present perspective there really isn't infinite timelines, they just keep being created with each possibility, but from an out of time perspective, and with time confirmed to be infinite, there would be infinite timelines since all possibilities would already exist from this perspective, similar to dragon ball xenoverse

No. You can't reach infinity flat out by stacking a bunch of choices on top of each other.

you can if time is infinite in length

Says the answer? If the answer was serious, more than a word would be said.

says who?

A proper answer is a well explained one.

read above

And I don't think I need to explain how saying yes or no is not an explanation.

Plus, you can refer to the answer Duncan gave thats beyond a simple "yep"

yes you do, the question is of yes or no, there isn't anything else they could answer instead of "yes/no"

did above

 

[DontTalkDT]

Alright, so I read the OP. One thing I don't understand is the whole section about whether dimensions are inside or outside of the universe.
Why is that relevant? I could understand if we were trying to calculate a specific (finite) number for the number of universes. But for the question of whether there are finite or infinitely many in total it wouldn't matter or would it?

Another question I have is regarding Null Void and Legerdomain and whatever else there is brought up: Are those confirmed to be universe sized dimensions?

Aside from that, could someone be so nice as to summarize the points of the opposing side as well? As someone who doesn't know the verse at all it's difficult for me to follow debates on the topic and stuff.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Alright, so I read the OP. One thing I don't understand is the whole section about whether dimensions are inside or outside of the universe.
Why is that relevant? I could understand if we were trying to calculate a specific (finite) number for the number of universes. But for the question of whether there are finite or infinitely many in total it wouldn't matter or would it?

To clarify, that entire section I wrote about is that right now, each universe in the Multiverse is considered a 2-A structure for housing infinite dimensions inside of itself. Basically a single universe right now is considered a kind of 2-A Macrocosm.

So the Ben 10 Multiverse right now is an infinite multiverse with each universe in the multiverse being a 2-A structure.

 

[Alexander]

To clarify, that entire section I wrote about is that right now, each universe in the Multiverse is considered a 2-A structure for housing infinite dimensions inside of itself. Basically a single universe right now is considered a kind of 2-A Macrocosm.

So the Ben 10 Multiverse right now is an infinite multiverse with each universe in the multiverse being a 2-A structure.

a megaverse if you want to talk.

 

[Alexander]

Another question I have is regarding Null Void and Legerdomain and whatever else there is brought up: Are those confirmed to be universe sized dimensions?

the first one is stated to extend forever,twice,and legerdomain is unkown in size,but the has a ''sky''that seems endless.

 

[Omegabronic]

Alright, so I read the OP. One thing I don't understand is the whole section about whether dimensions are inside or outside of the universe.
Why is that relevant? I could understand if we were trying to calculate a specific (finite) number for the number of universes. But for the question of whether there are finite or infinitely many in total it wouldn't matter or would it?

Another question I have is regarding Null Void and Legerdomain and whatever else there is brought up: Are those confirmed to be universe sized dimensions?

Aside from that, could someone be so nice as to summarize the points of the opposing side as well? As someone who doesn't know the verse at all it's difficult for me to follow debates on the topic and stuff.

basically there are two arguments for 2-A, with both being accepted, infinite dimensional layered universe(aka 2-A universe) and infinite multiverse(aka infinite timelines 2-A)
for the universe 2-A:
these two threads op summarize the reason for "the universe" in ben 10 being able to hold multiple dimensions with different space times
now the important part for the universe itself being 2-A is in the crossover(that it is considered canon here) of ben 10 and generator rex professor holiday says that there are infinite dimensions, and ben said that he had been in the "parallel worlds" all the time even with only being in dimensions like the null void and legerdomain, which are considered part of "the universe", so the dimension that are talked about in the crossover would be the "in universe" dimension, thus making "the universe" in its totality infinite dimensional
if you are still confused ask reiner and firestorm since they are the ones who made the threads in the first place

now for the multiverse being infinite:
different timelines/universes in ben 10 are created from the different possibilities, aka many worlds interpretation, which would be 2-B, but we have a confirmation that the time stream is infinite, with the different timelines branching from it, and with it being infinite in length, make it so that the number of universes in its totality infinite, since for someone outside or in the same plane as the time stream all the possibilities would already exist branching along the time stream, being only 2-B for a "present" perspective as in how many exist in the "now", and the totality, aka all of time would be infinite since the possibilities would branch infinitely
with these two Wog supporting infinite universes

if i made any mistake sumarizing it please tell me, i did my best

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

the first one is stated to extend forever

Where is this stated? Because the show outright says the Null Void is only a pocket dimension.

 

[Omegabronic]

Where is this stated? Because the show outright says the Null Void is only a pocket dimension.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

………….

First of all, why is Gwen, who at this point was a child, being taken as a valuable source of the Null Voids size?

Second, this isn’t even a solid statement. She says it LOOKS like it goes on forever.

And third, this statement was made in the original series. The Null Voids pocket dimension statement is made in the sequels involving the older versions of the characters, and made by a Galvian too IIRC. This is a super hard retcon.

 

[Omegabronic]

………….

First of all, why is Gwen, who at this point was a child, being taken as a valuable source of the Null Voids size?

she isn't, max is

Second, this isn’t even a solid statement. She says it LOOKS like it’s endless

with max confirming that it is

And third, this statement was made in the original series. The Null Voids pocket dimension statement is made in the sequels involving the older versions of the characters, and made by a Galvian too IIRC. This is a super hard retcon.

a pocket dimension can be infinite there is no retcon

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

she isn't, max is

I see that now, but my point still remains

a pocket dimension can be infinite

No it can’t. Then it wouldn’t be called a pocket dimension…..

A pocket dimension is literally that. A pocket dimension. An unquantifiable sized space-time. Endless would be an infinite universe

Show me one example of a pocket dimension being considered the latter on this site.

 

[Omegabronic]

I see that now, but my point still remains

no it doesn't? your point was "gwen is a kid, she is not reliable" but who confirmed it was max, so the point does not reamain

No it can’t. Then it wouldn’t be called a pocket dimension…..

A pocket dimension is literally that. A pocket dimension. Smaller than a universe.

the universe in ben 10 is infinite, so

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

no it doesn't? your point was "gwen is a kid, she is not reliable" but who confirmed it was max, so the point does not reamain

Stop nitpicking the statement please. The point does still remain.

What makes this credible?

the universe in ben 10 is infinite, so

Yeah, The normal universe is. A pocket dimension is not the same thing as a regular universe.

 

[Omegabronic]

Stop nitpicking the statement please. The point does still remain.

What makes this credible?

max knows about the null void, using it numerous times in the past, and being a top agent of the agency(don't what else to call the plumbers tbh lol) that regularly uses it

Yeah, The normal universe is. A pocket dimension is not the same thing as a regular universe.

with both being infinite means that one is a bigger infinity than the other

btw can you shown the pocket dimension statement?

 

[Firestorm808]

Another question I have is regarding Null Void and Legerdomain and whatever else there is brought up: Are those confirmed to be universe sized dimensions?

• Back with a Vengeance | Ben 10: Season 2, Episode 13
  • One
  • Two
  • Gwen in the Null Void: "This place looks like it goes on forever.
  • Max: "It does, so keep your eyes open."
• Legerdomain
  • Has a different time flow than the earth's dimension. 2 days in Legerdomain is just a few minutes on Earth.
  • The laws of this world are different in the sense that the ground and sky aren't parallel here.
  • All mana comes from Legerdomain in all dimensions of the universe.
  • It is safe to assume that if an artificial dimension is infinite, then a dimension that supplies mana to all other dimensions should be infinite as well.

Aside from that, could someone be so nice as to summarize the points of the opposing side as well? As someone who doesn't know the verse at all it's difficult for me to follow debates on the topic and stuff.

In-Show Material​

• The Space Beyond contains all Branch Universe Clusters.
• Per Paradox, the Clusters Branch to infinity.
• Per Paradox in both UA and OV, Each Universe is depicted as a cluster of dots in the Space Beyond.
• Per Paradox, there is only one Universe Branch Cluster where there is no Omnitrix (See No Watch Ben)
  • If the CTB only destroyed the branching space-time of Ben's Dimension, then the other dimensions/space-times (The various versions of the Null Void, Legerdomain, Rex, Dagon, etc.) should have remained in their place as clusters in the black void, but that is not the case. All but one cluster was gone.
• Per Vilgax, all but one Universe Branch Cluster has an Omnitrix.
• Each Universe Cluster shares the same parallel Dimensions
  • Null Void
  • Legerdomain
  • Dagon's Universe
  • At least 99 others that have been enslaved by Dagon.
  • Gourmand Trans-Spacial Bladder Dimension
  • Rex's Dimension
    • We know that Rex's Dimension is a parallel dimension to Ben's since it is in a universe cluster with an Omnitrix. Rex's Universe is not in its own separate cluster. Per the CTB aftermath, it's shared with a Ben Dimension. Paradox would not use Rex's dimension to determine if a Universe Cluster has a Omnitrix in it. He looks at the Ben dimension in the cluster.
    • Since Rex's Universe is considered the same type of dimension as the various other Parallel Dimensions, it makes sense to treat them as parallel space-time dimensions within the same Universe Cluster.
  • According to Doctor Holiday, there are theoretically infinite dimensions like Ben's, Rex's, and the Null Void Dimension, that are within the Universe Cluster.
• Each cluster represents a different universe timeline branch which, in turn, is a collection of space-time dimensions that make up that universe.
• This matches with how OV treats the term "the universe" collectively.

In summary, the primary source material alone supports an At least 2-C, possibly 2-A Universe Cluster, and 2-A total Clusters

Other Accepted Material​

The accepted secondary canon of the comic was used to confirm the At least 2-B, possibly 2-A Universe Cluster.

The accepted corroborated writer's statements are what was used to confirm the 2-A Universe Cluster theory by Holiday and support 2-A total Clusters.

 

[Omegabronic]

• Back with a Vengeance | Ben 10: Season 2, Episode 13
  • One
  • Two
  • Gwen in the Null Void: "This place looks like it goes on forever.
  • Max: "It does, so keep your eyes open."
• Legerdomain
  • Has a different time flow than the earth's dimension. 2 days in Legerdomain is just a few minutes on Earth.
  • The laws of this world are different in the sense that the ground and sky aren't parallel here.
  • All mana comes from Legerdomain in all dimensions of the universe.
  • It is safe to assume that if an artificial dimension is infinite, then a dimension that supplies mana to all other dimensions should be infinite as well.

In-Show Material​

• The Space Beyond contains all Branch Universe Clusters.
• Per Paradox, the Clusters Branch to infinity.
• Per Paradox in both UA and OV, Each Universe is depicted as a cluster of dots in the Space Beyond.
• Per Paradox, there is only one Universe Branch Cluster where there is no Omnitrix (See No Watch Ben)
  • If the CTB only destroyed the branching space-time of Ben's Dimension, then the other dimensions/space-times (The various versions of the Null Void, Legerdomain, Rex, Dagon, etc.) should have remained in their place as clusters in the black void, but that is not the case. All but one cluster was gone.
• Per Vilgax, all but one Universe Branch Cluster has an Omnitrix.
• Each Universe Cluster shares the same parallel Dimensions
  • Null Void
  • Legerdomain
  • Dagon's Universe
  • At least 99 others that have been enslaved by Dagon.
  • Gourmand Trans-Spacial Bladder Dimension
  • Rex's Dimension
    • We know that Rex's Dimension is a parallel dimension to Ben's since it is in a universe cluster with an Omnitrix. Rex's Universe is not in its own separate cluster. Per the CTB aftermath, it's shared with a Ben Dimension. Paradox would not use Rex's dimension to determine if a Universe Cluster has a Omnitrix in it. He looks at the Ben dimension in the cluster.
    • Since Rex's Universe is considered the same type of dimension as the various other Parallel Dimensions, it makes sense to treat them as parallel space-time dimensions within the same Universe Cluster.
  • According to Doctor Holiday, there are theoretically infinite dimensions like Ben's, Rex's, and the Null Void Dimension, that are within the Universe Cluster.
• Each cluster represents a different universe timeline branch which, in turn, is a collection of space-time dimensions that make up that universe.
• This matches with how OV treats the term "the universe" collectively.

In summary, the primary source material alone supports an At least 2-C, possibly 2-A Universe Cluster, and 2-A total Clusters

Other Accepted Material​

The accepted secondary canon of the comic was used to confirm the At least 2-B, possibly 2-A Universe Cluster.

The accepted corroborated writer's statements are what was used to confirm the 2-A Universe Cluster theory by Holiday and support 2-A total Clusters.

hello, i saw that you didn't mention the time stream and stuff, so i would like to have your opinion on my explanation of it, if it is okay to you

now for the multiverse being infinite:
different timelines/universes in ben 10 are created from the different possibilities, aka many worlds interpretation, which would be 2-B, but we have a confirmation that the time stream is infinite, with the different timelines branching from it, and with it being infinite in length, make it so that the number of universes in its totality infinite, since for someone outside or in the same plane as the time stream all the possibilities would already exist branching along the time stream, being only 2-B for a "present" perspective as in how many exist in the "now", and the totality, aka all of time would be infinite since the possibilities would branch infinitely
with these two Wog supporting infinite universes

do you think that this explanation of the time stream is correct? is it how it is already treat it? thank you advance

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

I think this is obviously wrong

 

[Firestorm808]

hello, i saw that you didn't mention the time stream and stuff, so i would like to have your opinion on my explanation of it, if it is okay to you

do you think that this explanation of the time stream is correct? is it how it is already treat it? thank you advance

Something like that, yes. We are using the supported WOG statements to support infinite universe branches based on information already supported by the show.

 

[Omegabronic]

Something like that, yes. We are using the supported WOG statements to support infinite universe branches based on information alread supported by the show.

ok thank you

 

[Reiner04]

Another question I have is regarding Null Void and Legerdomain and whatever else there is brought up: Are those confirmed to be universe sized dimensions?

Aside from that, could someone be so nice as to summarize the points of the opposing side as well? As someone who doesn't know the verse at all it's difficult for me to follow debates on the topic and stuff.

I'll within a hour

 

[Reiner04]

But for the question of whether there are finite or infinitely many in total it wouldn't matter or would it?

Yeah, I don't understand what OP meant by 2A is hard to get and all. Either it contains 6 dimensions or infinite of them will be equally fictional.

Another question I have is regarding Null Void and Legerdomain and whatever else there is brought up: Are those confirmed

We have statement of atleast 3 "in-universe" Dimensions to be infinite in size, and these 3 dimensions is in most important role in the crossover. But we don't know the size of legerdemain and series hasn't talked about it. But this is not a problem as it can be solved in my next reply. Or on second thought I can tell it here, doctor holiday said "there are infinite dimensions" and 3 of those infinite dimensions in this particular statement are infinite in size, so we can deduct all other dimensions to have same size as of known dimensions. Series can't go telling the size of each dimensions from infinite can they? We will have to rely on deductive reasoning in the end.

Aside from that, could someone be so nice as to summarize the points of the opposing side as well? As someone who doesn't know the verse at all it's difficult fo

Basically, OP has strawmmaned that in my crt,I didn't presented any evidence or anything to prove that all infinite dimensions are inside universe. I don't have hypnotism ability to control 5 staff and 18 regular members of the wiki to agree with do I? The crt was opened for 2 weeks and no one had presented any argument against my crt and now claiming shit about me. Regardless here is the point that why those infinite dimensions exist inside universe

I'll write one single post that includes all major evidences that all those infinite dimensions are inside the universe. After that if someone think it's not enough go ahead and do whatever you want.

• Dozens of those infinite dimensions are already "in-universe" Dimensions that includes legerdomain, nullvoid, ben's dimension, Rex dimension, Dimension 12, breach dimension, trans spatial bladder dimensions, etc. It's very illogical to say that few of those infinite dimensions are referring to "in-universe" dimensions while other are referring to universes. A simple formulation is that all those infinite dimensions are referring to same kind of dimensions rather than having formulation of infinite - 9 is referring to universes and 9 is referring to "in-universe" dimensions, since when we started to have such a complex thinking for a scan?
• Doctor holiday wouldn't have mentioned infinite dimensions if there is just 9 dimensions in the universe as they have no such devices that can connect universes but only device that can connect "in- universe" dimensions. The statement doesn't makes sense when they cannot even travel to seprate universes
• There is no brought up of universes at all in the entire crossover, each time Dimensions has been mentioned they were only referring to "Dimensions inside universes". We are Quoting single statement out of context of entire crossover.

OP hasn't provided any reasoning or evidences that they're referring to universes at all. Entire crossover contradict such reasoning unless we we Quote things out of context of even this single statement.

Heck even the context of infinite dimensions statement already was referring to "in-universe" dimensions because it already includes Rex dimension and Ben's dimension and nullvoid legerdomain etc. I am way out of way that why the single statement is being broken down to refer to 2 seprate things???

I never knew we have such a high standard
I Always saw that if a character has mentioning a "collection of dimensions" for instance "there are 100 dimensions" and even one of those dimensions is universal in size then all other dimensions should be as well.

But in this case, infinite dimensions includes atleast 6 to 9 "inside universe dimensions" already. Ben's dimension, Rex dimension, nullvoid, etc. Then why all other from this collection will refer to universes?? Anyone gotta answer?

vsbw is all about evidences not about personal beliefs and that one specific verse shouldn't be treated differently then all there is. I didn't gathered all these evidences and get it passed for someone to say "Dimensions can mean universes" and ignore the entire context.

It's not that "those dimensions can mean universes or not" but it's about there is 0% chance that they'll mean universes in this crossover.

These 3 posts of mine, say my part.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Basically, OP has strawmmaned that in my crt,I didn't presented any evidence or anything to prove that all infinite dimensions are inside universe. I don't have hypnotism ability to control 5 staff and 18 regular members of the wiki to agree with do I? The crt was opened for 2 weeks and no one had presented any argument against my crt and now claiming shit about me.

I’m going to be home soon to reply to the bigger responses to me, but I saw this and want to clarify something right now.

I would appreciate if you stopped using this victim card everytime I or anyone else makes a counter against you. I don’t care if your thread or whoever’s thread was “opened for 2 weeks”. I was not on the wikia when these revisions were decided upon, just because you and others here came to conclusions about something does not give you immunity from having your arguments be challenged against, nor does it disallow me to challenge them.

I acknowledge that these revisions went through the times they were made, but that doesn’t ban me from addressing what I have issues with. There’s no sudden hidden conspiracy involved with me making a revision thread against them, and no offense, but this amount of accusation in “claiming shit about you” is getting needlessly irritating to deal with.

Dont derail this thread with this.

 

[Reiner04]

I’m going to be home soon to reply to the bigger responses to me, but I saw this and want to clarify something right now.

I would appreciate if you stopped using this victim card everytime I or anyone else makes a counter against you. I don’t care if your thread or whoever’s thread was “opened for 2 weeks”. I was not on the wikia when these revisions were decided upon, just because you and others here came to conclusions about something does not give you immunity from having your arguments be challenged against, nor does it disallow me to challenge them.

I acknowledge that these revisions went through the times they were made, but that doesn’t ban me from addressing what I have issues with. There’s no sudden hidden conspiracy involved with me making a revision thread against them, and no offense, but this amount of accusation in “claiming shit about you” is getting needlessly irritating to deal with.

Dont derail this thread with this.

It's not my problem that you were ban? I am simply telling the truth? The OP has strawmmaned my crt by saying it doesn't contain any evidence and based of reasoning that all those dimensions are inside universe dimensions because there is no reason why they shouldn't be? It is wrong? It is needed to be fixxed? Go ahead and make a crt but don't go around claiming about a person or his work, Ppl aren't dumb to accept a reasoning like that. So I'll have to clear it up that there is a strawman in the OP and it doesn't mentions my points. It's not a derail if anything.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

It's not my problem that you were ban? I am simply telling the truth?

I wasn’t banned from here when these revisions went on, I was inactive because of things in my personal life to do that kept me from participating on the site.

And I never said it was your problem. I said that I’m not magically banned from making a thread to challenge these revisions just because I wasn’t active here when they happened.

 

[Reiner04]

Whatever.

 

[Lovemovies14]

Kukui can you add my name to the disagree list, I don't see it.

 

[Reiner04]

………….

First of all, why is Gwen, who at this point was a child, being taken as a valuable source of the Null Voids size?

Second, this isn’t even a solid statement. She says it LOOKS like it goes on forever.

And third, this statement was made in the original series. The Null Voids pocket dimension statement is made in the sequels involving the older versions of the characters, and made by a Galvian too IIRC. This is a super hard retcon.

Sorry, nullvoid has been accepted to be infinite in size already by everyone including @Zamasu_Chan who was defending the nullvoid being infinite in size as well. If you want to change it you need to make another crt. We don't have to convince you for each thing you find unconvincing rather you have to convince everyone and get it accepted that nullvoid is not infinite in size.

 

[Aachintya31]

And third, this statement was made in the original series. The Null Voids pocket dimension statement is made in the sequels involving the older versions of the characters, and made by a Galvian too IIRC. This is a super hard retcon.

pocket dimensions can be infinite size. wdym by super hard retcon

 

[Reiner04]

I think this is obviously wrong

Also Gua also disagreed with the crt. So don't forget to add him.

 

[DemonicDude]

max knows about the null void, using it numerous times in the past, and being a top agent of the agency(don't what else to call the plumbers tbh lol) that regularly uses it

with both being infinite means that one is a bigger infinity than the other

btw can you shown the pocket dimension statement?

Max is a reliable character who knows about The Map of Infinity and The Forge of creation as stated at 1:28 timestamp

 

[ProudLearner]

Nullvoid is High 3-A in size?

 

[Reiner04]

Nullvoid is High 3-A in size?

Yeah, been accepted long time ago and @Zamasu_Chan was the supporter of the upgrade as well.

 

[Vasco]

This isn't good evidence for High 3-A.

 

[Reiner04]

Well, this was supportive evidence in the crt and it has other scans as well and as I said it has been accepted long time ago by all supporters of the verse and even the staff present here. So it's fine. We can move on from nullvoid size part.

 

[Reiner04]

Short summary: Infinite dimensions statement include s nullvoid, Rex dimension, ben's dimension, legerdomain, Dimension 12, etc which are "in-univere" dimension and all of them as being a part of "same collection" can said to have infinite size as per our standards. And as the context is "in-universe Dimension" as obvious as it has been left w/o a doubt. We have 2-A universe.

seems easy to understand and reasonable? And this is just summary if I go over the details of the show then it has more fair amount of evidences than we need although this thing alone should be more than enough.

And as DonttalkdtDT said, 2C universe is as much harder to get as much of 2A universe, both are equally fictional and hence, it doesn't concern the credibility of the scans, as we already have a universe that can contain more than one dimension. So at the end of the day, either it contains multiple spacetimes or infinite spacetim's, doesn't matter.

 

[Reiner04]

@Maverick_Zero_X is neutral over 2A multiverse. Pls mention her in the neutral.

Also @ProfessorKukui4Life I think from your current arguements that those infinite dimensions inside universe can be pocket dimensions and you arguing that they're pocket dimensions means we are done over the part of those infinite dimensions exist inside the universe or not? Right?

And pocket dimensions in Ben 10 can be of infinite in size such as nullvoid. So I think your concern that universe will not scale to 2A because they can be pocket dimensions is also Done.

Anything else that is left here to do?

 

[Greenshifter]

And third, this statement was made in the original series. The Null Voids pocket dimension statement is made in the sequels involving the older versions of the characters, and made by a Galvian too IIRC. This is a super hard retcon.

Prove it's a retcon. Also Ben made the statement about "wow this pocket dimension is big" in AF, as if he never went to the Null Void before, so he's literally being an idiot in that instance.

And yes pocket dimensions can be infinite in size, it's a pocket dimension because it's only a part of the universe instead of the whole thing.