BB Avatar Addition (Another BB Revision)

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Alright, the actual change itself is simple on the surface but this actually drasticly changes on how characters can be scaled.

Let's jump right into it. BB's humanoid body that we see walking around, is not her true form. That is her cyberframe, and can be best thought of as an Avatar of her true form. Her true form is a mass of digital cancers with a bunch of jet engines and nuclear reactors shoved into it, all floating in Imaginary Numbers Space. Basically, the true BB went to the far side of the moon beyond the concept of time, and grew her power so much that she was basically a mass tumors. Even when she had reached that point, she wasn't strong enough, so she grew even further.

Throughout Passionlip's interlude, she calls Passionlip her avatar, which naturally implies the other Alter Egos would be her avatar as well. The Alter Egos were parts of her that she deemed unnesary, and she could not properly control them, so she fashioned them into Avatars. BB even displays that when her main cyberfame is destroyed, she just spawns a new one, which she refers to as a retry. She implies the only way to stop her would be to "Make the frame rate drop," which I guess is 4th wall breaking? I mean, unless digital spaces in the Nasuverse can experience lag lol.

Presumably, this higher form is what we previously refereed to as her Higher dimensional mind. It is not just her mind that watches all of history like a book, it is her higher self within the higher dimensional imaginary numbers space.

Now, for the actual ramifications of this. It was obviously BB's true form that merged with the Moon Cell, not the humanoid form we see walking around in most of Fate/Extra. That's just her cyberframe. This is why we actually see BB walking around in the moon cell after she had merged with it. That means that outside of hax, almost no one would scale to 2-A physically. For alternate scaling, I would suggest we instead scale everyone to Kama being able to burn the entire universe, which is infinite in the Nasuverse based on the Moon Cell's reproduction of it being infinite (Someone check me on that last part).

Tl;dr: Your Waifu probably looks like this. a New key for True Form BB will be 2-A for being one with the moon cell. Everyone else that is 2-A will be 3-A/High 3-A/Low 2-C, but will still have 2-A hax depending on where they fall within the Hierarchy of Authority. The Sakura 5 keep their 2-A hax as well.

 

[Schnee_One]

So is this 2A only for BB and no one else?

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

I can't check everything out so this will get filled with comments when I get back, but you basically want to downgrade everyone besides her to low 2-C?

Also, I think she calls Passionlip her avatar because Passionlip was created from a single BB's emotion. Forgot which emotion she represents. I don't think she is directly her avatar.

 

[Makkurona]

Nah, true form BB wouldn't have the Sakuras abilities, because their abilities were granted AFTER they were installed with the goddesses. Before that, they are just worthless datas of emotions in Sakura shape. Also, i think this is what her true, final form is after all the self mod she did, because using CCC shows her true form as a hyperdimensional being.

Edit: Sorry late for the upload. Some problems

 

[Paul_Frank]

My only question:

Is there any reason to assume that the BB cyberframe is infinitely weaker than her true self?

@Garg

Yes this would be 2-A physically for only BB while everyone else goes back to high 3-A/Low 2-C with possible 2-A hax depending on their authority

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Her "avatar" being weaker than her true form would contradict the story because she would want to face her opponent with all of her might at that point otherwise she fails her goal.

Whether that should be taken into consideration is up to you.

 

[Makkurona]

With all of these avatars, i can see why BB fits much with Nyairuko chan (Nyarla kun)xD

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Nah, true form BB wouldn't have the Sakuras abilities, because their abilities were granted AFTER they were installed with the goddesses. Before that, they are just worthless datas of emotions in Sakura shape. Also, i think this is what her true, final form is after all the self mod she did, because using CCC shows her true form as a hyperdimensional being.

Alright, I'll remove her having the abilities of the Sakura 5 then

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I can't check everything out so this will get filled with comments when I get back, but you basically want to downgrade everyone besides her to low 2-C?
Also, I think she calls Passionlip her avatar because Passionlip was created from a single BB's emotion. Forgot which emotion she represents. I don't think she is directly her avatar.

Yes, but they keep the same hax tier

She represents multiple facets of her being, Love and Hate are 2 of them. If the info returned to BB after passionlip's destruction, then she would just recreate her

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Their abilities were made during their creation. The only exception being Meltiliths Abosprtion, and her Invincibility. We learn this through the Matrixes during CCC.

I am fine with True Form BB being 2-A. Her Binkin version of F/Go says in her matrix if the translation is right that she becomes a Higher Dimensional Being, and the Guidebook says the same but only if they had a budget.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

My only question:
Is there any reason to assume that the BB cyberframe is infinitely weaker than her true self?

I'd say its more so that there is no reason to assume that the cyberframe she has had since even before the ascended and merged with the moon cell, would be as powerful as her true form. Her true form also has the ability to look down on the realms that her avatar inhabits as a book

 

[Makkurona]

By the way, they are avatar but in a different way, which is also why they are called Alter Egos. The Sakuras even though they are avatars, are completely different existence than BB, in other words, no connection to the main body like your usual avatars. This is why they are called a split off existence, Alter Egos born of emotions. The same thing applies to Tamamo Nine and vice versa.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Their abilities were made during their creation. The only exception being Meltiliths Abosprtion, and her Invincibility. We learn this through the Matrixes during CCC.
I am fine with True Form BB being 2-A. Her Binkin version of F/Go says in her matrix if the translation is right that she becomes a Higher Dimensional Being, and the Guidebook says the same but only if they had a budget.

So True form BB wouldn't have the Sakura 5's abilities?

Great

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

By the way, they are avatar but in a different way, which is also why they are called Alter Egos. The Sakuras even though they are avatars, are completely different existence than BB, in other words, no connection to the main body like your usual avatars. This is why they are called a split off existence, Alter Egos born of emotions. The same thing applies to Tamamo Nine and vice versa.

So no type 9 then?

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Soooo...

1. The BB you see is just an Avatar (Why am I getting Pennyvibes here?)

2. The true BB is fused with the Imaginary Number Space, and is always absorbing the Mooncell during CCC

3. So, her act of breaking the 8D wall in Chapter 6 is basically her attempting to eat what's left of the Mooncell, not just breaking a wall and walk to the core

 

[Makkurona]

Nope. No Type 9 because as far the Alter Egos and BB herself concern, they are different existences. Oh, by the way if this passes, she would have Large Size Type 9 or 10 and/or Hyperdimensional Existence because she is literally bigger than the dimension itself.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

• "The Sakura Five were a group of Alter Egos that were cut from the game during development when we changed the plot.
  They were all alter egos (bunshin off-shoots) of BB. Each was based on one of the following five emotions: love/hate, joy [happiness], purity, compassion, desire [craving].
  In the very first design concept of CCC:
  The boss of the first layer was Red Lancer.
  The bosses of layers two through six were the Sakura Five.
  The boss of the seventh layer was BB or the mastermind behind the bad stuff in the story.
  Sure enough it was Sakura Hell. On one hand I'm glad it was cut, but on the other hand it's a bit regrettable.
  By the way, the Alter Egos symbolized the sensuous parts of the female body.
  Passionlip represented breasts, and Meltlilith the feet.
  The remaining Alter Egos represented eyes, lips, and back." [http://[https://www.tmdict.com/en/sa.sakura-five ]

• "Meltlilith is the Alter Ego of pleasure.
  She is a young girl that leaves a strong impression with her feet as sharp as swords and slender body.
  She is a High Level AI created from a piece of BB's heart."
  [1]

• "She is a High Level AI created from a plucked out piece of BB's heart.
  Passionlip is a High Servant whose base model was cut and paste from a goddess type servant."

[2]

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

You can give type 9 to those who can reform their physical form.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

So type 9 for BB only

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

In Extella the MC in altera route broke apart her mind, body, and soul into 3 separate entities. They were able to act indivually too, and have indivual thoughts until they were fused back together.

That was done with the Mooncells power which should scale to BB as well.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

(walls of texts)

I think he means that the Sakura Five aren't BB exact avatars, just offshoots, and shouldn't share Type 9 from her.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Oh if that is what he means then yeah i do agree with that.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Soooo...
1. The BB you see is just an Avatar (Why am I getting Pennyvibes here?)

2. The true BB is fused with the Imaginary Number Space, and is always absorbing the Mooncell during CCC

3. So, her act of breaking the 8D wall in Chapter 6 is basically her attempting to eat what's left of the Mooncell, not just breaking a wall and walk to the core

1. Yes, that's just her humanoid Cyber frame

2. Not fused with imaginary numbers space, but they are up in there. The future version is presumably always fused with the moon cell.

3. Not sure

 

[Dysmity]

Considering what EXTRA mats tells us:

The Alter Egos are alternate personalities separated from the ego of BB. Indeed, Alter Egos. Alter Egos are a group of high-level AI's created by BB in CCC. These girls who were created from BB's emotions each have a soul, and are active in the cyber world as entities completely separate from BB. Creating a soul is not a difficult task for Moon Cell, this is because the design and structure of souls has already been discovered. The problem lies in whether the "container" known as a soul can contain self-awareness. The Alter Egos were all created as incomplete copies, so in order to account for this flaw they were each bestowed with independent self-awareness separate from BB's. Each Alter Ego inherits a single emotion from their progenitor BB. This is why Passionlip is embodied with despair, and Meltlilith is a disciple of destruction.

Basically BB is more like a base model that was used to create them rather than being some being who have lower manifestations of itself

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

its unclear how she got past the 8-D wall. it was likely not with wth AP though considering some of the hints we are given.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

It wasn't AP. She turned the Moon Cell against itself

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

its unclear how she got past the 8-D wall. it was likely not with wth AP though considering some of the hints we are given.

She might really get through it by AP though. She has power comparable to the Mooncell by that point, and it took her a while for that.

Which reminds me. Post-Mooncell BB manipulated Pre-Mooncell's fate to fuse with the Mooncell, and Pre-Mooncell is already fused with the Imaginary Number Space, and put you under loads of timeloops.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Pre-mooncell BB should have Acausality too lol.

I don't think the Mooncell was really generating a wall for the Use of AP though, but just for defense, but im really am unsure on that topic.

I do know Post, and pre-mooncell BB has some seriously insane mindhax, and resistance to mind hax.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Pre-mooncell BB should have Acausality too lol.
I don't think the Mooncell was really generating a wall for the Use of AP though, but just for defense, but im really am unsure on that topic.

I do know Post, and pre-mooncell BB has some seriously insane mindhax, and resistance to mind hax.

Ah... so you know what Post-Mooncell BB Fatemanipping her means.

Maybe like Iapitus said?

How hard was it again?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Type 1 because of Tiamat's information, and possibly Type 2 because of Imaginary Number Space being an "Eternal Present". Later after the Angelica Cage she placed herself in the concept of "Unlimited Time" Which could end up being either type 2; 3; or 4. There is a lot that goes into that "Concept of Unlimited Time."

I think leaving it as 8-D barrier creation is for the best.. But idk what you guys think...

BB post, and pre, are able to view the Multiverse, and all its history from a higher dimensional perspective. That is was granted to BB after she absorbed the Angelica Cage which is a huge factor in her source for power. The Mooncell was still able to take temporary control over BB even after that, and BB was still able to fight it off. Which scales both ways for both BB's 5D mindhax, and Mind hax resistance.

 

[Paul_Frank]

>I think leaving it as 8-D barrier creation is for the best.. But idk what you guys think

So higher dimensional manip like she currently has then

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Yeah, which i don't disagree with. Also, full-on omnipresents for True Form BB.

Also,

• "In Extella the MC in altera route broke apart her mind, body, and soul into 3 separate entities. They were able to act indivually too, and have indivual thoughts until they were fused back together. That was done with the Mooncells power which should scale to BB as well."

I am not sure what you can classify this as.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Let's just leave it as Higher Dimensional Manip. As this thread proves, it doesn't scale to anyone anyway

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

"In Extella the MC in altera route broke apart her mind, body, and soul into 3 separate entities. They were able to act indivually too, and have indivual thoughts until they were fused back together. That was done with the Mooncells power which should scale to BB as well."
I am not sure what you can classify this as.

This looks like Duplication.

Which most, if not all Gods in Nasuverse should have anyway.

 

[Makkurona]

Yuh, Parvati in Kama event explicitly said Divine Spirits can do clones with cost of total power being expend a bit. This doesn't seem to apply to Kama though, because she is literally infinite.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

BB post, and pre, are able to view the Multiverse, and all its history from a higher dimensional perspective. That is was granted to BB after she absorbed the Angelica Cage which is a huge factor in her source for power. The Mooncell was still able to take temporary control over BB even after that, and BB was still able to fight it off. Which scales both ways for both BB's 5D mindhax, and Mind hax resistance.

Angelica Cage is another name for the Core last I checked, which was noted to have properties of Universe of Record that see time in a nonlinear fashion.

If seeing time in a nonlinear fashion qualifies for High 2-A... well.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

BB does get the Higher D mind from fusing with the Mooncell Core though, Rin outright stated that as the reason.

And the reason for that is because the Core is a Universe of Record-like place, where past, present, and future exist at the same time.

 

[Makkurona]

Unrelated, but on what tier you would put BB-tothep? xD

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Here it is. The Mooncell tries to take control over BB, and BB is able to fight it off. It's a back, and forth game between the 2. https://tsukinoura.wordpress.com/2017/03/27/entry-152-fight-to-the-end/

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Here it is. The Mooncell tries to take control over BB, and BB is able to fight it off. It's a back, and forth game between the 2. https://tsukinoura.wordpress.com/2017/03/27/entry-152-fight-to-the-end/

The mindhax I doubt would be combat applicable. But the resist. She can resist hax that can hax somebody who can process all possibilities, and see every points in time at once.