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BB Avatar Addition (Another BB Revision)

Not much of an argument rather than an analysis of the interlude. Long story short: your waifu isn't ugly and Hakuno fought with the real BB. Going by your first comment, you should agree that it doesn't make sense for BB to send off her weaker self to fight.
 
@Hun Tiandi quick question.. But what is your stance on "True form BB" or rather "The 1st BB to reach the core and succesfully absorb it" becoming one with it, and is it, and her having past selves that failed at reaching the mooncell core..?
 
Well, either way, the BB we fought is still the true BB. Whether or not which shape was the real one is debatable. Though, i want this to be concluded soon and well so we can go to downgrade the others like the AEs (except Foxtail Kazuradrop) with proper arguments and justifications. Tbh, other than the top tiers like BB, Saver, Kama/Mara, and Amaterasu i can't really see the other being full 2-A. At top i would rate Melt, Lip, and Kingprotea to be 3-A to low 2-C with 2-A hax (their id_es and Authority). Arjuna Alter God would be at least low 2-C but possible higher or to 2-A with scaling. And i will say this: i am Arcueid fan and even begins Nasuverse from Tsukihime before KnK then finally Fate, but i can't really see Arcueid being full 2-A. I would agree if she has 2-A hax, but her being full 2-A, i can't really agree with it.
 
Pretty much most of my comments are about her. See my reply to Makk for reference. True form BB in CCC that merged with the core should be the humanoid figure we see walking around.

That aside, I think there's some differences between FGO BB's history and the one from CCC. Like the CCC version just absorbed data from AI and servants into her memory so you don't expect her to become a kaiju. She also only created 2 Alter Egos, thus her memory must be loaded, something we see happening in the story. While this one in the interlude absorbed mechanical structures and divided her functions into 5 Alter Egos because she was physically expanding faster than what her frame could reasonably support. I could be wrong on this point though.

I'll have to check that part again about her previous selves failing. Can you link me to the chapter?
 
Well, there's that, i think they are trying to remake and retcon CCC recently (Which i'm waiting for, heh) from linked stories in FGO and Foxtail. I never remember anything about BB previous selves failing. Well, i will send the link either way

@Hun https://tsukinoura.wordpress.com/2014/10/13/entry-140-out-of-time/

From what i read, it's actually BB has already been there the whole time even before the beginning of the game. The rest was just some sort of playback of BB's journey going to the core.
 
there is more to it than just that one link, but im currently not in a place where i can link all the information together.

but you summed it up pretty good.
 
Provocative comments don't really accomplish much, contrary to what one might expect.

The main problem with the OP suggestion is that there is no reason BB would send a weak version of herself to fight a powered up servant when all of her plans rely on her victory.
 
I'm pretty sure that even 2-A BB is innacurate, given the past thread, but people seem to have just moved the goalpost to silence that discussion entirely.
 
Arguments against 2-A in previous thread were horrible. Not only were they badly written to the point that even a knowledgeable member becomes confused, but those arguments did not address the reasoning for 2-A. This was stated multiple times and was not acknowledged by the other party, therefore the discussion lead to nowhere. We can have that discussion once people are ready have a proper discussion.
 
You literally just said that "Provocative comments don't really accomplish much", right after you made a provocative comment saying that Hun had no arguments, and now you follow with once again a complete dismissal of the opposition.

You should stay true to your words.
 
That's not provocative. That's constructive criticism, which I said in the previous thread as well. I also didn't say he had no argument. Most of the stuff he wrote was correct, but had nothing to do with the topic of the thread. The very first revision thread had far better arguments against 2-A, which were taken into consideration and addressed because the discussion was better.

Provocative is when you come here and write "we should do something about inaccurate ratings" instead of "we should discuss 2-A rating" or something like that. Your comment implies that the rating is wrong and that everyone who supported it is somehow wrong. This then creates a negative impression with those people and they lose interest for a proper discussion. Simple psychology.
 
I'm pretty sure we already had it in the previous thread and it's concluded as stay in 2-A for the high end tiers in the end.. -.-"
 
ThisIsMySwagPack said:
Arguments against 2-A in previous thread were horrible. Not only were they badly written to the point that even a knowledgeable member becomes confused, but those arguments did not address the reasoning for 2-A. This was stated multiple times and was not acknowledged by the other party, therefore the discussion lead to nowhere. We can have that discussion once people are ready have a proper discussion.
Click to expand...
On the contrary, I found the counterarguments for 2A horrible, since it requires discarding of any information coming from the story and material books which contradicts the narrative. Examples of this include ignoring established plot from Extella that is heavily applied in FGO 1 & 2 in favour of vague mentions about infinite timelines that also makes no attempt to describe their mechanics. By the previous revision thread, if you are talking about these two threads, I don't see why the arguments are irrlevant. Some of the comments there talk about the feats and statements from Last Encore, CCC and LB4 which were all addressed in the very first comment.

More importantly, after Upgrademan posted new scans for 2A (or higher) for the Moon Cell I switched to explaining the general Nasuverse cosmology, to give proper context behind these parallel worlds with more evidence, suggesting that it is by no means Multiversal. Did you completely skip through the thread? I'm confused how you keep claiming everything about 2A Fate has nothing to do with it.
 
It's either 2-A or 2-C. Now it's just confusing to pick which one. Hun's arguments are good enough for downgrading to 2-C, but the whole timelines busting indicate to me to be 2-A or 2-B. I can agree with lower tiers like CCC Melt and Kingprotea to be 2-C with 2-A hax, but for the high ends it gets jumbled up for me. So eh, let's just leave it for later thread so we can finish up this one. I just don't want this to be dragged on for too long

Anyway @Hun, what do you say after reading the link i sent?
 
Regarding BB? I suppose she took over the Moon Cell core while Hakuno was in deep sleep. The material book states that the timing when she took control of the far side of the moon was between the end of the fifth round and the beginning of the sixth in real time. After that Hakuno was placed in a time loop of the everyday scenery in the prologue, which is an artificial paradise modeled off the discarded 69 days where Sakura abused her privilege as a high grade AI to repeat the single day she got to know about Hakuno 69 times. BB was the memory moved to the backup machine after Sakura realized her actions were self-contradictory as an AI.
 
@Hun

Your case doesn't really make sense in this regard. While they make it clear that it does record everything, BB being able to subjectively view all of reality via a reality fiction difference is different from all of reality being recorded. Rin makes it very clear that this isnt just her reading from a record book. Also, Rin makes it very clear that these records are equally as real as anything else, since Hakuno and the main group have passed as guests into the recorded realities. Also, no, the very specific scans says that when she merged with the moon cell her body did not merge, so her higher self, even if you claim that it is just her mind, is not directly connected to her cyberframe. I would need more context behind where the scan regarding her distortion of her frame came from, but it seems that was during the times when the moon cell and true BB were fighting over control of the cyberframe, in which case both sources of high info attempting to exert force over her body would cause changes.

I'm really not sure what this has to do with BB not having a true form. Perhaps I am completely missing your point, but if BB removing the alter egos stopped the horrible mutations that happened from jamming a nuclear reactor onto a scooter, then she would be back at square one. Please correct me if I am missing this, but I see a massive jump in your logic where you go from her removing some of the maligned data to create the Alter ego and her stop using a true form and going back to just operating a cyberframe normally.

Sorry for responding late, I've been very busy irl
 
Also, I'm not sure why we would be back at square one when the scans about her viewing the universe of record as fiction make it clear that her body had not fused with the moon cell, only her mind
 
To be honest, I'm just reciting what is stated and not much else. I don't think there's enough info to talk about herself being higher dimensional, so I avoided that point entirely and haven't opposed it. If you see my first comment, I only pointed out there are other higher dimensional lifeforms in the Nasuverse and it doesn't make sense for BB (supposing she is one) to be above them. In fact, Gil states BB was going to ascend to the Throne of Gods much like what is stated for Kiara in Tamamo's route.

Regarding the scan about her frame being distorted due to memory overload, I linked you the whole chapter. She explicitly states it's from the data of NPC, AI and servants.

Basically, I'm saying the interlude doesn't support the idea of a bigger BB actively controlling the smaller one, that's a misunderstanding. It's the reason why she says "The original BB" in the past tense rather than "My true form". There were no mutations mentioned, it only says she expanded more than her frame could support, she had to divide her own functions and identity. Not just remove malignant data.

BB added engines after engines, to the frame that is herself. She started with scooter engines of the same format (size), then moved onto heavy motorcycles engines. Then automobile, then truck, dump truck, biplane, cruiser.

BB

Her appearance was like an ugly illegal construction. Or should I say, replicating cancer cells.

BB

Even then, the capacity was not enough for her to achieve her goal. Self-modification escalated without check.

BB

Passenger plane, tanker, power plant, nuclear power plant. The engines were impossible for the tiny frame to support.

BB

She kept performing expansions that are "impossible to fit", and became a gigastructure.

BB

However, the inside is a mess. It was impossible for a human thought engine to last in that environment.

BB

Alterego Sakura Five was born in that process. BB planned to divide and organize her identity and functions, making them into assistants for herself. As a result, ultimately 5 alteregos were born.

Pay attention to the bolded lines. That's the reason I said her original form shouldn't be there anymore. Not only is it impossible for her frame to sustain that expansion, but it is also impossible for human thought to last inside it. Therefore, she produced Alter Egos, which makes her weaker and physically smaller as shown in the scan I previously linked. Also almost everyone is using a cyberframe in the Moon Cell, it's a digital world after all.

Yeah, I understand. I also tend to get busy during specific hours here.
 
No clear conclusion has been reached yet.

SwagPack is supporting the notion that BB during the final fight should be scaled directly from the Mooncell.

Hun is supporting the notion that there is no "True BB" or "Avatars", he said BB just divided her overloaded self into the Sakura Five.

UpgradeMan seems to agree with Iapitus's proposal overall.

Iapitus is still busy, so he's not addressing SwagPack and Hun's arguments for now.
 
Well, my opinion is that: BB in the last battle did fight with her full power. But, after 10 turns, either because Origin Mystic Code time out or like Saver Amithaba which needs preps before activation, she then launches CCC that not just insta kills, but just insta game over, no damage or insta death effect, just game over immediately. Originally, CCC supposed to be like in her summer, which she becomes like a giant described as a massive high dimensional being that then scoops up the battlefield and erases her enemy as she closes her hands with the enemy in. Since this is the original concept that used later on in the serious CCC in FGO, i think we can go with this description also for the NP in CCC. But, this either can be Large Size or Size Manipulation ability.
 
C.C.C. in the game is described as having the Shapeshifters wrapping the target into a sphere, then erase the target from all dimensions. That should be the canon one for C.C.C. BB, as it's the one that's actually realized.

As for the topic of this thread, I'm leaning on the Final Fight BB scaling directly to the Mooncell here, as she's now having the Mooncell resources completely.

But as for her Pre-Mooncell self. I'm staying neutral.
 
I will unsubscribe due to time constraints. You can message me later if you need my help.
 
Hmmm, i don't see much different tbh between having or not having the resources since BB was already equal to MC already in processing powers. I'm just seeing it as like having additional resources and her own resources, which is already a lot. For the CCC i think the later concept is the now canon one because it was finally realized there and the only problem in CCC using the concept was budget problem to animate it, so i don't see which is more applicable since both are now canon in my view, the sphere one and the giant one
 
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