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Battle of Gods 3-A Downgrade

Nullflowerblush said:
No, not at all. The dimensions of the other... dimensions are simply unknown. Do we apply an unquantifiable variable to the equation?
Click to expand...
The bottom half would have a diameter of 8.8e+26 as well, distance from edge-to-edge still remains the same, so that's kind of a useless question to ask.
 
Again, the bottom half of the globe...
  1. Is not drawn to proper scale and was thrown together as a proof of concept, essentially
  2. Represents the outside of a hermetically sealed dimensional barrier, meaning that the Living Universe could take up the entirety of the lower half, take up one side of the lower half, take up only the bottom of the lower half, or rest in a random, empty space of the lower half
The map of the cosmos in general is invalid as a legitimate reference for distance and size.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Again, the bottom half of the globe...
  1. Is not drawn to proper scale and was thrown together as a proof of concept, essentially
  2. Represents the outside of a hermetically sealed dimensional barrier, meaning that the Living Universe could take up the entirety of the lower half, take up one side of the lower half, take up only the bottom of the lower half, or rest in a random, empty space of the lower half
The map of the cosmos in general is invalid as a legitimate reference for distance and size.
Click to expand...
At the end of the day, doesn't matter much, the explosive radius is still 8.8e+26 meters even if you discard the globe.
 
KLOL506 said:
They are separate dimensions but apparently they share the same exact flow of time.
Click to expand...
Yeah, i'm pretty sure they don't.
unknown.png

Goku literally says that Other World Time =/= Earth time here.
He can't use SSJ3 for long enough on earth, but he can use it easily in the other world. How would they share the same flow of time?
 
denzeelmao said:
Yeah, i'm pretty sure they don't.
unknown.png

Goku literally says that Other World Time =/= Earth time here.
He can't use SSJ3 for long enough on earth, but he can use it easily in the other world. How would they share the same flow of time?
Click to expand...
Don’t please. I beg.
 
denzeelmao said:
Yeah, i'm pretty sure they don't.
unknown.png

Goku literally says that Other World Time =/= Earth time here.
He can't use SSJ3 for long enough on earth, but he can use it easily in the other world. How would they share the same flow of time?
Click to expand...
THIS AIN'T THE PLACE FOR THIS NOR WAS IT MY IDEA TO MAKE THE COSMOLOGY LIKE THAT. BIGGER PEOPLE THAN ME HAVE TRIED AND FAILED. That's why I said apparently.
 
KLOL506 said:
THIS AIN'T THE PLACE FOR THIS NOR WAS IT MY IDEA TO MAKE THE COSMOLOGY LIKE THAT. BIGGER PEOPLE THAN ME HAVE TRIED AND FAILED. That's why I said apparently.
Click to expand...
I mean honestly, that looks cold hard proof to me that they don't share the same flow of time, at least heaven and earth, but I guess I'll wait for someone more knowledgeable to come through.
 
denzeelmao said:
I mean honestly, that looks cold hard proof to me that they don't share the same flow of time, at least heaven and earth, but I guess I'll wait for someone more knowledgeable to come through.
Click to expand...
Like I said, this is not the thread for that shit. That will need its own separate cosmology thread (Though then again, expect it to be shut down within a nanosecond as there is now a rule that prevents such speculation without brand-spanking-new, cold-hard evidence).
 
KLOL506 said:
Like I said, this is not the thread for that shit. That will need its own separate cosmology thread (Though then again, expect it to be shut down within a nanosecond as there is now a rule that prevents such speculation without brand-spanking-new, cold-hard evidence).
Click to expand...
Ok, but... Has that panel been debunked before? Is that why that isn't "evidence"?
 
there is a couple problems with this, the macrocosm is not drawn to scale its a to explain the size of the actual verse, it explains that universe 7 is several universes big and basically a small multiverse, the real universe is described as being invisible in comparison to the whole thing, if anything this should be an upgrade battle of gods to low multiverse level because of how massive universe 7 is and how they nearly turned the entire thing to nothing just by fighting
 
denzeelmao said:
Yeah, i'm pretty sure they don't.
unknown.png

Goku literally says that Other World Time =/= Earth time here.
He can't use SSJ3 for long enough on earth, but he can use it easily in the other world. How would they share the same flow of time?
Click to expand...
In the original Japanese it says that the afterlife doesn't have the concept of time
 
Thedoctor said:
there is a couple problems with this, the macrocosm is not drawn to scale its a to explain the size of the actual verse, it explains that universe 7 is several universes big and basically a small multiverse, the real universe is described as being invisible in comparison to the whole thing, if anything this should be an upgrade battle of gods to low multiverse level because of how massive universe 7 is and how they nearly turned the entire thing to nothing just by fighting
Click to expand...
3g5hqc.png
 
KLOL506 said:
For the last part, A RESOUNDING NO.

They would still not be baseline even if we were to assume normal IRL universe diameter for the globe of Universe 7. Because as it stands, Earth is still at the edge of the universe, and they would still need more firepower to destroy everything at the edge from the edge than if they were thrashing each other at the dead center of the universe, which they weren't. Why? Inverse-square law, that's why.

I am neutral regarding the size of the universe as that is more up the alley of DarkDragonMedeus and AKM sama and it was discussed with them in this exact thread, but I disagree with baseline 3-A simply because of inverse-square law.
Click to expand...
I disagree FRA btw.
 
denzeelmao said:
Ok, but... Has that panel been debunked before? Is that why that isn't "evidence"?
Click to expand...
Read the room for God's sake, if we're all apprehensive about the panel it likely means it's a reoccurring one which has been debunked several times.

No, the panel is not valid because in the original Japanese the implication is that Time doesn't flow in the afterlife at all.


I am neutral on the size of the universe, but garsh no, "not drawn to scale" isn't a proper counter to how the diameter of the globe was found, geographical references are still accurate.

Also, we have a confirmed size for the Realm of Kais, it's 1/10th of the universe, so take it into account. (Radius + 1/10th of the diameter). You can ignore the "space" in between, but we cannot ignore the affected space of the Kais.
 
to be fair, there is nothing debunk, just people interpreting a scan differently, most of the time we never have something objectively right in power-scaling. Anyway this is not topic for 2-C U7 or something similar, time to go back to the main thing
 
Last edited:
GodlyCharmander said:
Also, we have a confirmed size for the Realm of Kais, it's 1/10th of the universe, so take it into account. (Radius + 1/10th of the diameter). You can ignore the "space" in between, but we cannot ignore the affected space of the Kais.
Click to expand...
The Realm of the Kai is stated to be a tenth of the size of the entire macrocosm. However, this statement in of itself is unreliable, because the statement comes exclusively from Kanzenshuu and is based on the visual portrayal in the map. The affected space of the Realm of the Kai is yet another unknown variable among unknown variables.

The only thing that we are certain of is that the Living Universe is, at the very least, as large as the real world universe, and Snake Way is a million kilometers long.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
The Realm of the Kai is stated to be a tenth of the size of the entire macrocosm. However, this statement in of itself is unreliable, because the statement comes exclusively from Kanzenshuu and is based on the visual portrayal in the map. The affected space of the Realm of the Kai is yet another unknown variable among unknown variables.

The only thing that we are certain of is that the Living Universe is, at the very least, as large as the real world universe, and Snake Way is a million kilometers long.
Click to expand...
Nah, nah. The source is from Daizenshuu 7, actually. I'll look for it.
 
Ah. My apologies, then.

Adding the GPE of the Realm of the Kai to the destruction value of the universe based off ISL would result in 10.1149998x baseline.
 
I disagree with this content revision.

The only valid point is Snake Way not being drawn accurately in scale, but the rest overlooks some blatantly confirmed facts about Dragon Ball's astronomy. Earth, Milky Way Galaxy, and the "Observable Universe from Earth" being located at the edge of the living universe alone should be the fact for everything being well above baseline. Even if the size itself is baseline, it doesn't change the fact that the epic center starting from the edge of the universe would make the feat multitudes above baseline.

But even IRL, the observable Universe is merely a spec compared to how massive the rest of the universe is. And Dragon Ball has only explored that fact more; not only is their technology more advanced than ours; and thus superior telescope technology should exceed the 46.5 lightyear range, even Bulma admits that's still nothing in being able to view grasp the rest of the universe. And it is still canon that the afterlife is larger yet than the living universe, making the universe as a whole larger yet.

I wouldn't mind if someone wanted to do a recalculation with still taking account obvious facts in mind, but it's definitely NOT baseline.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Even if the size itself is baseline, it doesn't change the fact that the epic center starting from the edge of the universe would make the feat multitudes above baseline.
Click to expand...
I understand.

The current calculation for the destruction of the universe is 3.9x baseline. Adding the destruction of the Realm of the Kai would boost that to 10.11x baseline. However, the 27x baseline value that the characters currently scale to relies on the notion that the distance between the Living Universe and the Realm of the Kai is quantifiable, when the two are spatially separated dimensions, with everything in the world, even the many layers of the Other World being sealed off from each other in such a way that free movement is impossible.

The bulk of the original calculation comes from applying Inverse Square Law to the Realm of the Kai from the edge of the Living Universe, but because distance is unquantifiable, this method becomes unusable.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
I understand.

The current calculation for the destruction of the universe is 3.9x baseline. Adding the destruction of the Realm of the Kai would boost that to 10.11x baseline. However, the 27x baseline value that the characters currently scale to relies on the notion that the distance between the Living Universe and the Realm of the Kai is quantifiable, when the two are spatially separated dimensions, with everything in the world, even the many layers of the Other World being sealed off from each other in such a way that free movement is impossible.

The bulk of the original calculation comes from applying Inverse Square Law to the Realm of the Kai from the edge of the Living Universe, but because distance is unquantifiable, this method becomes unusable.
Click to expand...
DDM is also disagreeing with the current size of the universe being described invalid, which will also boost up the results. The final result will be nearly identical considering this:
  • Even in best case scenario, the macrocosm would be immense if we consider the observable universe to be in it.
  • The Kaioshin Realm is 1/10th of that sizable macrocosm.
In the end we'd only end up with a similar result even if we exclude the distance between each dimension.
 
I can agree with the map not being drawn to scale and that the current calculation could use a revision. Obviously I don’t agree with baseline but that’s irrelevant now ig.

Also, I’m deleting any further arguments about 2-C macrocosm. It’s not even on-topic and just the same debunked scan.
 
My arguments were all muddled up.
GodlyCharmander said:
The Kaioshin Realm is 1/10th of that sizable macrocosm.
Click to expand...
This is correct. This does not change.

However, the original calculation attempts to find the diameter of the Kai's faraway planet, which is the world in the center of the Realm of the Kai, by comparing its pixel measurements to that of an observable universe that is, ironically enough, not visible on the map due to being contained with the seal. The internal contents of the seal are unknown and unquantifiable, because the seal encompasses the entirety of the Living Universe, including outer space, the Demon Realm, the Room of Spirit and Time, and the various other realms and dimensions within the Living Universe and is a spatial barrier of unknown dimensions.

The original calculation relies on baseless pixel measurements, which massively inflates the calculation as a whole.

That, and the matter of the unquantifiable distance between the two, are the biggest problems with the original calculation. The only thing we can certain of is that destroying the universe from the edge is 3.9x baseline, and the entire Realm of the Kai, which is what is mentioned in the original databook statement and not the central planet, is a tenth of the entire macrocosmic globe, which means its diameter is, at the very least, a tenth of the observable universe.

The diameter would be >8.79847934e+25 m, and the GPE would be 9.08902149e+75 joules.

9.08902149e+75 joules + 1.1255087e+93 joules = 1.12550870000000000908902149e93 joules or 3.98410159x baseline.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
My arguments were all muddled up.

This is correct. This does not change.

However, the original calculation attempts to find the diameter of the Kai's faraway planet, which is the world in the center of the Realm of the Kai, by comparing its pixel measurements to that of an observable universe that is, ironically enough, not visible on the map due to being contained with the seal. The internal contents of the seal are unknown and unquantifiable, because the seal encompasses the entirety of the Living Universe, including outer space, the Demon Realm, the Room of Spirit and Time, and the various other realms and dimensions within the Living Universe and is a spatial barrier of unknown dimensions.

The original calculation relies on baseless pixel measurements, which massively inflates the calculation as a whole.

That, and the matter of the unquantifiable distance between the two, are the biggest problems with the original calculation. The only thing we can certain of is that destroying the universe from the edge is 3.9x baseline, and the entire Realm of the Kai, which is what is mentioned in the original databook statement and not the central planet, is a tenth of the entire macrocosmic globe, which means its diameter is, at the very least, a tenth of the observable universe.

The diameter would be >8.79847934e+25 m, and the GPE would be 9.08902149e+75 joules.

9.08902149e+75 joules + 1.1255087e+93 joules = 1.12550870000000000908902149e93 joules or 3.98410159x baseline.
Click to expand...
Nah, but that's the thing.
3.98x baseline is using the observable Universe. The diameter in the original calc is still valid.

The observable universe not being visible is quite literally a non factor, we know the shape, and the largest possible iteration of it in that form. The calc uses the lowest possible end.
 
Again, the observable universe literally cannot be pixel measured at all. This is not a situation where we know the shape and can accurately pinpoint its location on the map based on that shape. This is not like pixel measuring a marble inside of a Tupperware container because we know the shape of the marble inside of the bowl. This is like attempting to pixel measure a marble inside of a Tupperware bowl that has an entirely different dimension inside.
 
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