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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

AppleLord said:
Forgive me. I was wrong. Maybe the anime would correct either one of us about Kenpachi. But is solid. There is a reason Gerard’s last form was on its knees and never got up or walked. Kenpachi was holding the entire time making it easier for Byakuya and Toshiro.
Click to expand...
CFYOW Kenny > all pure blood Shinigami
TYBW it goes Byakuya ~ Toshiro >~ BanKen

TYBW Kenny had no time to train his new powers he was still to green to make full use
 
For me byakuya scaling to V2 gerard is inconsistent. Considering he was getting fodderized by base giant form gerard
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
CFYOW Kenny > all pure blood Shinigami
TYBW it goes Byakuya ~ Toshiro >~ BanKen

TYBW Kenny had no time to train his new powers he was still to green to make full use
Click to expand...
There is no scaling that puts all those people above Bankai Kenpachi.
 
Toshiro is above bankia kenny only via hax. I do believe toshiro ice negates durability or just nulls all the power gerard had absorbed
 
AppleLord said:
Show me.
Click to expand...
V1 Gerard cut off BanKen's arm at the shoulder where it wasn't damaged. The Miracle takes the damage received and turns it into power -> Gerard took BanKen's power and made it his own, that's how his power works.

Byakuya and Toshiro > V1 Gerard > TYBW BanKen
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
V1 Gerard cut off BanKen's arm at the shoulder where it wasn't damaged. The Miracle takes the damage received and turns it into power -> Gerard took BanKen's power and made it his own, that's how his power works.

Byakuya and Toshiro > V1 Gerard > TYBW BanKen
Click to expand...
That was an inconsistency in the drawing. Kubo made an error. He draw Kenpachi’s arm fully been blow off at the elbow before he fell to the ground and after Gerard supposedly cut his arm off his entire arm is back together again in the ground. The first intent overshadows the second and Gerard doesn’t take anyone’s power, he exchanges wounds into God size.

0670-011.png
0670-012.png
 
Apple ……. Gerard clearly hit Kenpachi and the place where his sword struck is conveniently at Kenpachi’s shoulder aka not his elbow which wasn’t even completely blown off. You are basically trying to say that Gerard missed Kenpachi because his arm blew itself off and that Kubo messed up the very next page when he drew what was separated from Kenny and the injury he received from his own power.

Which one is more likely?
  1. Kubo didn’t draw the damage on the elbow in the second panel? Or
  2. Kubo drew a nice big panel making a show of the damaged elbow that was still connected to Kenny’s body, retconned that into his arm exploding off at the shoulder, drew another big ass panel to make a show of Gerard swinging at Kenny but apparently missing and despite all this effort, he doesn’t drop a line where Gerard (a guy who doesn’t shut up) says he missed?
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Apple ……. Gerard clearly hit Kenpachi and the place where his sword struck is conveniently at Kenpachi’s shoulder aka not his elbow which wasn’t even completely blown off. You are basically trying to say that Gerard missed Kenpachi because his arm blew itself off and that Kubo messed up the very next page when he drew what was separated from Kenny and the injury he received from his own power.

Which one is more likely?
  1. Kubo didn’t draw the damage on the elbow in the second panel? Or
  2. Kubo drew a nice big panel making a show of the damaged elbow that was still connected to Kenny’s body, retconned that into his arm exploding off at the shoulder, drew another big ass panel to make a show of Gerard swinging at Kenny but apparently missing and despite all this effort, he doesn’t drop a line where Gerard (a guy who doesn’t shut up) says he missed?
Click to expand...
He drew the page another day from the previous one and didn’t verify where he had cut his arm off.

czyF8nk_d.webp

iHbAWWE_d.webp

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Inconsistency. The first event takes priority. Gerard stroke the ground after Kenpachi fell to his own power. If Gerard had taken his arm off, Kenpachi would had continue to fight with just one arm as he did against Pernida. He lost to his own power. Not Gerard.
 
Last edited:
Arc7Kuroi said:
The scale is
Askin ~ Kisuke >= Aura > Tokinada ~ Byakuya ~ V2 Gerard
My line of reasoning for Tokinada ~ Byakuya is that it’s stated they have similar reiatsu levels and we know Shinigami battles are specifically determined by reiatsu. Additionally, Kisuke informs us it’s reiatsu that determines a Shinigami’s stats. Also, a fatigued Tokinada is able to take (albeit barely) Ginjo’s attacks. Ginjo being the guy who could possibly beat Hikone, Hikone being the child who scales above pretty much the entire EoS verse that’s alive.
Click to expand...
Tokinada likely only scales to base Yoruichi and Byakuya. Not accounting for Shunko forms and Bankai. The reason being, Shunko Yoruihci was beating down Askin who you scale above Tokinada, and Byakuya scales above Gerard. Now you have Gerard at the bottom of the scale, but it's been stated that God Sized Gerard is the strongest Quincy after he had taken in enough Miracle damage, and this was pre Vollstandig and Pre Final From, both of which Byakuya went on to contend with. This is also consistent with Byakuya making easy work of an enemy that scales to Kyoraku in a 1 v 8. Aura and Kisuke are > Tokinada though, but so are Byakuya and Yoruichi at their full power.

There's a reason why Narita wrote Byakuya and Toshiro out of the story. They're still in the same league as Kenpachi, and unlike him, they would've have toyed around with Hikone like how Kenpachi would've, and the story would've been over at the beginning of volume 3 had either of them been there.

Also, I still wonder where people get the idea that the CFYOW versions of the characters are stronger than their TYBW versions? The only thing you can give them is the Soul Zenkai thing at best, but almost everyone would get that. Ginjo and the others weren't training for 6 months, its been stated that they were wandering the Rukon and in the Shiba house for that time. At best, they said their deaths helped them understand their Fullbrings better and what mistakes they made, but they weren't training. The Sternritters actually got weaker, as it's been stated they got nerfed after surviving the Holy Selection, yet they're still at the same level as the base Arrancar and the casual Fullbringers. The Gotei have been working on repairing the Seireitei and things of that nature. And at best, the only statement we get from Kenpachi is that he spars his squad's lower ranking officers to whip them in shape rather than him doing any hard training on his own. I read the official translations for all 3 novels and am wondering why there's this notion that everyone got stronger?

Ginjo might seem like the hardest one to justify since he scales to or above Hikone in Bankai at first glance, but this same Ginjo in Bankai was swapping hands with a full powered Fullbring Bankai Ichigo, while a weakened, injured version of this very same FB Bankai Ichigo was able to damage Base Yhwach who scales to or above Bankai Yama and is also High 6-A. Yhwach even wanted to go all out against this injured FB Bankai Ichigo and was excited to fight him. And before anyone says 'Ichigo easily beat Ginjo', although the fight was brief, Ginjo had the edge in Shikai to the point where he was able to deflect FB Shikai Ichigo's Getsuga with a casual slash. And in Bankai, they were both even and landing strikes on each other/damaging each other (we saw blood streaks implying injuries on both of them), until Ginjo got a mental/resolve nerf from Ichigo not doing what he expected and trying to understand him. We know how massive of an amp or nerf mental states and resolve is in Bleach, and it was even stated that Ichigo saved Ginjo in the end. From the point after his inner monologue, when he yelled Ichigo and fired the cero onwards was when his dropped. And we see it in both the anime and manga. They were even before that point.

The idea of the characters getting stronger between the FB/TYBW arcs and CFYOW isn't supported anywhere in the novels. The point about Kenpachi being the strongest pure shini could've been more valid of Toshiro and Byakuya, who were showed to be his equals or superiors in the TYBW arc, weren't purposefully written out of the story. Even narratively speaking, even though the Higher Ups in the Gotei made up a lie to keep the Tokinada-Hikone incident as small as possible, the rest of the Gotei, who aren't dumb by any means, found it a believable lie to send Byakuya and Toshiro on a mission where they thought Ichigo himself would need help with and actually be relavent to someone threatening to him.

And...this post ended up being longer than I meant to, sorry lmao
 
Okay so he just messed up on not including the elbow wound. Gerard still cut off of his arm as evidenced by how Kenny’s sleeve got cut off which was definitely it blown off from his power.
 
AppleLord said:
He drew the page another day from the previous one and didn’t verify where he had cut his arm off.

czyF8nk_d.webp

iHbAWWE_d.webp

jvRLdbc_d.webp

Inconsistency. The first event takes priority. Gerard stroke the ground after Kenpachi fell to his own power. If Gerard had taken his arm off, Kenpachi would had continue to fight with just one arm as he did against Pernida. He lost to his own power. Not Gerard.
Click to expand...
Kenpachi continuing fighting is assuming that he would stay conscious after Gerard's attack. I showed you the scaling chain before, but let me take out Toshiro and Byakuya and just show it more simply

Vollstandig Gerard w/ Miracle Amp from Bankai Kenpachi > Hypothetical Vollstandig Gerard >= Hypotherical Full Power Bankai Kenpachi > Bankai Kenpachi >>> God Sized Gerard >= Shikai Kenpachi w/o the Eyepatch

Easy scaling. Vollstandig as form >= Bankai lore wise. Gerard and Kenpachi were even in God Size/Shikai, or Gerard was superior. Kenpachi gets a Bankai level amp and smokes Gerard. Gerard gets a Bankai or beyond level amp, and the ratio between them would be the same or a larger difference in Gerards favor. Then Gerard gets all of the damage that Bankai Kenpachi inflicted stacked into him.

And Kenpachi's body exploded because Yachiru tried to raise him to a level to fight Vollstandig Gerard w/ the Bankai Kenpachi Miracle amp, and his body wasn't able to handle it. Meanwhile Gerard, Byakuya and Toshiro were able to contend with and overpower that version of Gerard, and then went on to fight a version of Gerard that even Volls w/BanKen Amp didn't even compare to
 
In the seireitei size thread, wasn’t it stated by Rangiku or Renji it would take like a whole day for all of the lieutenants to meet up? Which is more proof of a character stating how big it is? Arc can you add that if it wasn’t already stated?
 
Should use the movie statement outright telling up the distance between the two gates.

We already have evidence Kubo was involved for the entire process including the setting.
 
It's like getting the height of a character, say Ichigo, in a movie and no where else. The events of the movie aren't part of the main timeline, buf Ichigo's height shouldn't change because of that. So would you make the claim that Ichigo isn't as tall as the movie said because is not part of the main continuity?
 
Deadass wanna make a Klub Kubo account and end the nonsense.

“Hello Kubo-sensei is Seireitei as big as Fade to Black said it is?”

He’d prolly think it’s a stupid question. Like “no shit I wrote the movie cuh”
 
I was planning to make a klub kubo account but its all in japanese fml
 
Even if you do that the answer won't get acceted. The wiki doesn't take stuff like this in consideration if it's clearly from a vs debating purpose.
 
Ovy7 said:
Even if you do that the answer won't get acceted. The wiki doesn't take stuff like this in consideration if it's clearly from a vs debating purpose.
Click to expand...
Imagine if Kubo gave a verbatim answer, as the word of god of the series he wrote, and someone said "naw ain't true". 🤡
 
If the question isnt primed or super specific i dont think itd be a problem no?
 
Tho I legit espect that, if you ask Kubo how big Seireitei is, he'll just tell you to read the chapter where Yoruichi mentions it xD
 
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