- 19,685
- 29,025
Ichigo's GRC GT only busted a building, he's consistently tier 9/8
Nard and Sus went all out and are only tier 9/8
Luffy broke a tree with his new powerful haki
We need to downgrade the HST
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
Nard and Sus went all out and are only tier 9/8
Luffy broke a tree with his new powerful haki
We need to downgrade the HST
- 586
- 164
Somehow in all Bleach characters, Yoruichi and Kisuke were just fine and arguably never get trolled by him.
- 19,685
- 29,025
Askin ******* on Yoruichi, Kisuke beasted tho
- 21,513
- 30,858
HEY THERE
- 5,681
- 4,918
PAIN
- 586
- 164
That part were fine, at least for me.
Askin is one of elite Stern and even he's the weakest of all elites, he has impressive feats for pushing out both Yoru and Kisuke to their limits
- 19,685
- 29,025
You know you want it
- 5,228
- 3,366
Called it.
Also proves a post I made several months ago about how Damage just waits a few months before regurgitating the same downgrade CRT in hopes that staff members forget their previous decision
This thread exists like a dozen times, and Damage has made several of them I'm fairly sure, at the very least, when this one fails, a discussion rule better be made or I'm out, only so much staff abuse I'm willing to let stand.
Also didn't even notice that he made it a staff thread, what a joke, well this one might actually be accepted then even when it is literally just copy pasted arguments.
Last edited:
- 19,685
- 29,025
Askin > Lille ~ Gerard > Pernida
Is very very very consistent with CFYOW
I don't think it's fair to reem him for it tho. Like I'll keep arguing out my ass for uni Bleach, FTL Bleach, country to continental Espada, etc etc etc. It's just based on what we believe is most accurate.
- 1,172
- 978
Problem is Damage doesn’t believe that the HST can be above Country level.
- 6,288
- 2,735
The difference is that what we think has no weight on the wiki cus we are not mods, nor can we make rules to prevent or approve of stuff, I mean if mod put a rule bout "don't talk about xyz cus it has been talked many times and we dont wanna anynore", by doing that they can simply close any thread that talks bout xyz
- 586
- 164
Askin > Lille for real?
- 19,685
- 29,025
I mean, tough shit for us, but that's not inherently true. Damage isn't stagnant in his ways. There was a time where he said "I can see Yhwach being 3-A". Sure he changed his mind, but opinions change.
Yeah wanna talk about it 0o0
- 586
- 164
But since you said from CFYOW which I didn't read yet, I want to know how he's above Lille.
- 19,685
- 29,025
Basically the scales go as follows:
Askin ~ Kisuke >~ Aura >~ Tokinada ~ Byakuya ~ Gerard > TYBW Kenpachi ~ Pernida
Askin ~ Kisuke >~ Aura >~ Tokinada ~ Shunsui ~< Lille
- 11,686
- 3,167
I can see Bleach God tiers been 6-A with the Dangai feat. Gremmy and Kenpachi at 6-C.
- 11,686
- 3,167
- 19,685
- 29,025
Byakuya ~ V2 Gerard > TYBW BanKen > TYBW Ken ~ Pernida yes
Byakuya is stronger than TYBW BanKen
Cry about it
- 11,686
- 3,167
I’ve doubts. Are you trolling? Or have you not read the series in awhile? I know every page and can’t find it in less than a minute from all the times I have read it. You know well why I am calling BS on this. Or shall we discuss a Toshiro and Byakuya downgrade because of the ice? Have you forgotten base Kenpachi took off Gerard’s leg? But tell it was the ice. And verify what happened when Yachiru released a bit more of his power, not even his full power in Bankai. I’ve spoken.
- 752
- 267
Final Form Gerard => Mature Bankai Toshiro/Bankai Byakuya (Byakuya directly blocked one of Final Form Gerard's attacks, and the duo were able to fight him offscreen until Yhwach killed him without getting killed themselves. Toshiro basically clapped up the previous form of Gerard and froze him so deeply that he tunred into powder rather than crumbling.) > Vollstandig Gerard w/Miracle Amp from Bankai Kenpachi (All the damage Bankai Kenpachi inflicted on Gerard just turned into more power for him, and he took out Bankai Kenpachi with one swing) > Vollstandig Gerard (Hypothetical as he never existed without the Miracle Amp) >= Bankai Kenpachi >>> God Sized Gerard >= Shikai Kenpachi w/o Eyepatch
Toshiro and Byakuya fought a blatantly stronger form of Gerard that had a beyond Bankai level amp in the form of Vollstandig + a miracle amp from all of the damage Bankai Kenpachi inflicted on Gerard. Even if you want to say Kenpachi wasn't releasing his full power, when Yachiru released his full power to try to match Gerard, his body couldn't handle it, while Toshiro and Byakuya could handle that version of Gerard. And said version of Gerard one shotted Kenpachi. We saw in the Perninda scuffle that having an arm ripped off is nothing to Kenpachi, so it wasn't as if his durability was lowered overall. The only thing that was compromised was the arm that he was outputting his full power to swing with.
That and scaling wise, Miracle Gerard was >= Shikai Kenpachi. Then they both get Bankai level amps. (Vollstandig should actually be superior to a Bankai level amp). So that would put Vollstandig Gerard and Bankai Kenpachi with at least the same difference as their previous forms. But then the Miracle Amp jumps Gerard up even higher.
- 2,954
- 1,440
- 11,686
- 3,167
False. Bankai Kenpachi (not even full power Bankai) was taken out by Yachiru releasing his own power and Gerard’s sword hit the floor next to him.
Base Kenpachi came later and took off Gerard’s leg like nothing.
Last edited:
- 19,685
- 29,025
A fly can bite an elephant and pierce its skin, it does not scale to the elephant.
Base Ken there is the embodiment of that
Or if that doesn’t sit well with you, souls in Bleach get zenkai after surviving near death experiences, that would just mean the Kenny who knocked over Gerard > BanKen from the prior chapters. Albeit this is much more eh
Either way Byakuya > TYBW BanKen that we see
Base Ken there is the embodiment of that
Or if that doesn’t sit well with you, souls in Bleach get zenkai after surviving near death experiences, that would just mean the Kenny who knocked over Gerard > BanKen from the prior chapters. Albeit this is much more eh
Either way Byakuya > TYBW BanKen that we see
- 4,327
- 2,979
- 19,685
- 29,025
King has returned.
- 34
- 20
That Seireitei calc is awesome. it is based on real , so it is accurate.
- 6,288
- 2,735
(gonna post Imade comment here in case they decide to delete it)
Visuals Are Inconsistent
They are heavily inconsistent with one another while the statements are consistent and support a large Seireitei.
It's clearly obvious with Kubo's words that he intends for Seireitei to be huge; however, this can't be actually depicted with art so he repeatedly gives statements of a large size for Seireitei that I will bring up further down.
The largest piece of evidence for this is Kubo's own words on backgrounds and the existence of the Rukongai.
Rukongai
Never once in all the aerials of Seireitei (literally click the links Damage has given) do we see the Rukongai besides the Seireitei.
However, obviously that can't be true because we are told several times that the Rukongai lies directly outside the walls of Seireitei comprising of 320 districts with 80 in the North, 80 in the South, 80 in the East, and 80 in the West (I'll mention districts again later). None of the aerials show this, yet it is always said that it lies directly outside the walls and we are shown when they walk in the Rukongai that it is outside the walls. The aerials are inconsistent with each other and they do not even display what we know exist inside Seireitei (the mountains and other things I will explain further) and the things that exist directly outside the walls. I chalk it up to Kubo being lazy and not wanting to draw the aerials to scale and accurate as he has built his world to be, he consistently implies Seireitei is big and that the Rukongai is right outside which goes to my next point.
Small fact, Mayuri eliminated 28,000 souls from one of Rukongai's 64th District. There are 320 of these Districts.
Kubo Draws Very Little
Kubo doesn't even draw backgrounds, why would he keep drawing everything he states and consistently implies for the size of Seireitei to scale when the guy doesn't even draw backgrounds?
Kubo has literally said he avoids drawing too much like backgrounds because it takes focus away from what is important, the action and story.
Obviously his aerials are all inconsistent with each other because that's not his focus, thus he consistently states that it's big and has large things inside of it.
Too Inconsistent and Disregard Canon
First take the size of these scans and compare them to each other, not only are they not even consistent with each other, they literally ignore things that canonically exist in Seireitei and outside of it.
Yama's Division is a huge building that is not seen in any of the aerials.
Chojiro as buried on a hill that is above the normal buildings, yet no aerial shows it.
There are mountains directly located inside the Rukongai, yet only one aerial shows mountains right outside Seireitei.
That same aerial literally makes Seireitei look like 20 city blocks big. It's literally inconsistent with every other scan.
Literally the page after that has an aerial that contradicts it. These aerials are literally all inconsistent with each other.
Next page even makes it smaller than what we saw in the previous page. Should these aerials be taken as fact despite being inconsistent and ignoring canon statements and WoG?
This view of the Sokyoku literally contradicts every other view of it and makes it bigger than the majority of aerials.
This view is perhaps the best we have, but even it is inconsistent with this view. The Sokyoku and Senzaikyu are suppose to be the same size as Silbern (Silbern is the building with arches in the middle) and both are located in the center of Vandereich/Seireitei, yet when lined up, Seireitei and Vandereich's size are not even close to being the same when they are suppose to be the same size.
This view doesn't even show the Silbern, and many scans already show the Silbern tower over everything and put it at a size similar with the Sokyoku/Senzaikyu. So no, these aerials are not consistent with each other at all.
Those bushes that surround the Sokyoku are actually a giant forest with branches bigger than people, trunks bigger than people, and the forest itself is pretty damn big despite being the bushes around the Sokyoku. The aerials from outside sometimes show and sometimes don't show this forest, further proof of their inconsistency.
Also the meteor is pretty inconsistent, have you tried lining up the shots of the meteor with the visible Shakonmaku (the dome surrounding Seireitei)? They aren't even consistent with each other nor with other scans showing the Shakonmaku.
We have numerous scans that support Seireitei for being big and statements that Seireitei encompasses a huge area. We repeatedly get these facts and statements till the end of the series, yet the few aerials that exist also contradict each other and the canon facts that we know. So yeah, why stick with inconsistent visuals that we know Kubo does not care for than his own consistent statements and implications?
Mountains Are Inside SeireiteiyA4fson.jpg
This one is fairly obvious and actually has a statement for support.
First off, it is directly stated that the location for this area is The Seireitei and that it is the Training Grounds Behind Thirteenth Company's Barracks.
This is word confirmation that this area is located inside the Seireitei.
However, one of the two biggest reasonings that these mountains are inside the Seireitei and not outside is the fact that we cannot see the Seireiheki, the walls that surround Seireitei, they are not visible in this entire scene and a later scene 250 chapters later on in the series.
However, what I find to be the largest and undeniable piece of evidence for mountains existing in Seireitei are literally in a scan Damage linked himself that can be found in We Do knot Always Love You, where it's detailed that two characters travel mountainous terrain and even forests over several days while traveling inside the Seireitei itself. That is direct proof of not only mountains, but forests existing inside Seireitei.
JjCXX2w.png
This is just one of the 13 Division Barracks located inside of Seireitei. One Division is confirmed to have mountains inside of them and forests are confirmed inside the Seireitei as well.
The Divisions
The Divisions are huge and we know there are 13 of them. One Division have mountainous terrain and confirmation of forests. One of the forest is located in the 7th Division as that is where the "scent of a fellow wolf" is located, Sajin Komamura who stays in the 7th Division area which is the forest he is found in.
More supporting evidence of the size of these Divisions can be found in the series. All the Divisions at least have the three following: the Barracks for the Division, the Company for the Division (offices and living areas), and the Training Grounds (13th is confirmed to have mountains in their training grounds).
1st Division
It is confirmed to hold a prison under it, the prison is huge as it holds several layers in it as well which includes Muken which expands for a huge area as we all know, with hills and forests as well.
Shinji Hirako remarks how huge the 1st Division Barracks are, in comparison to his 5th Division most likely.
116 1st Division Members were guarding the Northern Gate of Seireitei (the white walls have 4 gates for the cardinal directions), the 1st Division is located closer towards the center of Seireitei near the Senzaikyu and Sokyoku. The Division is big and has a lot of members.
2nd Division
2nd Division is pretty big and perhaps one of the biggest. It not only houses the 2nd Division Barracks, Company, Training Grounds, but also the Secret Remote Squad which is further made up of 5 Divisions on it's own.
One of those 5 Divisions of the Secret Remote Squad has it's own seclude prison that it manages which is surrounded by a pretty large moat as well (250 feet wide). Kisuke Urahara ran this part of the Division.
It's got like a castle on a hill for it's Division Company too for some reason.
3rd Division
WkMbAmg.png
Not much is known besides Gin planting trees around this division.
It has a rather large open field (you can see the Japanese Kanji for 3 on the building) for it's Company which is apparently so large Toshiro's Shikai range fits inside just the 3rd Division area as there were no mentions from the other Divisions or Yamamoto of Toshiro's actions for using his Shikai and changing the weather in a 11.781 kilometer radius.
Still has it's training grounds, barracks, and company though.
4th Division
4th Division has a hospital inside of it as well as its usual Company, Barracks, and Training Grounds.
Not only that, it has a prison in it as well with at least 75 different cells in this prison.
5th Division
5th Company has a special prison (it held Izuru and Momo when they had drawn their weapons inside the Seireitei when it was illegal to do).
Besides that it has the usual Barracks, Company, and Training Grounds.
6th Division
You guessed it, it's own prison (held Renji and Rukia when Renji lost to Ichigo by order of Byakuya and Rukia after being detained from the Real World).
Also seems to have a more rich area unlike the other Divisions (most likely due to Byakuya being rich).
Then the usual 3 areas of a Division as well.
7th DivisionJjCXX2w.png
This is Komamura's Division which I already linked a statement above that showed it having a forest and mountainous terrain being crossed to enter it's forest.
Then the usual 3 areas of the Division as well.
8th Division
Not much is known besides the Soul Reapers Women's Meeting occurring here and that it has a huge courtyard.
Then the usual 3 areas of the Division as well.
9th Division
It holds the editorial and news publishing department for Seireitei.
Then the usual 3 areas.
10th Division
We've seen nothing of this Division, we just know it monitors Nariyuki City.
The usual 3 areas as well.
11th Division
We know nothing about 11th Division's area.
12th DivisionJPZFk5p.png
This one is big because of the Shinigami Research and Development Institute being located inside the Division as Kisuke founded it upon the Division.
The SRDI is big, they use elevators for the different levels and even institutes as the SRDI is further divided into different sections.
It even has factory stations on the surface.
On top of all of this is, Mayuri used his Bankai inside the Division which has a poison radius of near 200 meters (Viz mistranslated this line) and just like with Toshiro's Shikai range this poison did not affect the other Divisions nor was there mentions from Yamamoto or other Divisions of the poison affecting them.
This Division is big and still has the usual 3 areas of the Training Grounds, Barracks, and Company.
13th Division
There's still more here, besides the already confirmed mountains inside this Division, it also has a lake in it for Captain Ukitake.
Conclusion
The 13 Divisions are all pretty damn huge with large areas and cut into different sections. There are 13 of them and they all exist inside the Seireitei despite their large sizes and the fact that they don't make up the entirety of the Seireitei as it still has other sections and districts that I will be going over down the thread.
It's big as ****.
Other Notable Landmarks
There is more besides the Divisions, mountains, forests and etc. that I've covered so far.
CitiesCxk0HQ0.png
Hisagi states that he feels Yamamoto's Reiatsu coming from "The Third Old City"
This should be notable given that Hisagi is incredibly weakened right here and Yamamoto is going all out flexing his Reiatsu in Shikai, Hisagi being weakened due to his Reiryoku and Reiatsu being drained by Yumichika previously should have dampened Reiatsu sensing. Yet he could still sense Yamamoto's Reiatsu and was fine sensing it.
Nanao in the presence of an angry base Yamamoto was immediately incapacitated by his Reiatsu that Kyoraku had to shunpo her away from his Reiatsu and back in the same page, Yamamoto even praised his speed. Where the math comes in, during the fight between Aizen and the Captains, Yamamoto's Reiatsu was crushing and killing Hollows from over 13 miles away, possibly closer to 15-16 miles, as they were centered in Karakura Town.
"How do you know it was Yamamoto's Reiatsu?" Yamamoto is the most powerful person in Bleach at this point and even Aizen had admitted this.
So Hisagi would have to have been miles away from Yamamoto and the city he was in to have sensed Yama at all without suffering from the negative effects like Nanao.
So Seireitei has multiple cities located inside of it and they are huge as well.
Mansions / Living Areas
There are a lot of these for some reason.
Byakuya and Omaeda both have mansions due to wealth and nobility; however, they aren't the only ones as well (there are 4 Noble Families which Omaeda is not part of).
Byakuya's mansion is big.
Has a stream going through it.
Has a large open area located on it's grounds for graves.
Large enough for races down it's corridors and secret meetings to be held without Byakuya knowing given it's size.
Has secret compartments, giant fields, and personal guards for it's grounds.
It's just huge in general.
Oh yeah, and the scarf Byakuya is always wearing could buy 10 more mansions that are in the Seireitei. So there are more of these giant mansions besides Byakuya's Omaeda's, and the 3 other Royal Families.
These mansions all fit alongside the 13 Divisions, mountains, forests, cities, and other landmarks I will mention.
Stores / Departments
There's a lot of these.
Omaeda has jewelry and metal factories and stores with employees of course.
There are fashion departments / stores.
Restaurants and random food stores (Rangiku mentions meat/soba bun stores and liquor stores as well).
Canals
Canals and rivers exist under Seireitei.
Kido Corps Division
There is another entire Division solely for Kido Corps.
Forest
Besides the forest located in the 7th Division, we are told there are forest(s), plural, and we do know of the forest surrounding the Sokyoku that I mentioned earlier:
Those bushes that surround the Sokyoku are actually a giant forest with branches bigger than people, trunks bigger than people, and the forest itself is pretty damn big despite being the bushes around the Sokyoku.
Soul Reaper Academyb49242z.png
Obviously there is a Soul Reaper Academy.
Academies have to have dorms for their student body.
The student body is huge given it has 6th years in its school. My university is a 4 year university and it has a student body of over 30,000 for instance and 11,000 in Graduate school (Berkeley).
Conclusion
All of this exists inside of the Seireitei together alongside the already huge 13 Divisions.
It's big as ****.
Timeframes and Travel Time
Seireitei is huge and it's big enough that people can literally not see each other for over 40 years.
Todo was ordered by Kensei to go straight from their location in the Rukongai's West Fugai's 6th District to Kisuke in the 12th Division SRDI; however, Tendo was in a hurry and did not delay yet it took him from morning to midnight to go back and forth these two points from the Rukongai and Seireitei.
Another good example would be the entirety off the Soul Society arc. Ichigo's entire group was running around Seireitei trying to find Rukia for several days (over 5) and were making no ground despite their endurance (Ichigo and Uryu training non-stop for several days straight) and superhuman speed.
Yoruichi's 40 day statement can be included here.
The Wolf Cubs several day traveling statement over mountainous terrain and forests can be included here.
Seireitei is huge and Kubo has consistently portrayed it to be so massive it takes a long time to get around to travel through it.
Its big as ****.
The Vandenreich is a CountryietL0vq.png
Yhwach's empire is literally sectioned into territories.
His Empire is literally referred to as a country and considers Seireitei as another country ("not this country").
Yhwach's Empire is the same size as the Seireitei, it existed in it's shadows.
Yhwach's Empire = Country
Seireitei = Country
Vandenreich = Seireitei
Country = Vandenreich
Seireitei is a country in statement.
Its big as ****
Seireitei is Comprised of DistrictsuKNV8lr.png
There are numerous statements of Districts existing inside of Seireitei (Kubo has already given confirmation of 320 districts for the Rukongai and numerous statements of specific Districts in the Rukongai). The Seireitei has a lot more than the Rukongai with the numbers we have and these District statements go as far back as the Soul Society Arc (always with a number and cardinal direction as the Rukongai Districts are).
Seireitei's West section has at least 601 Districts which means Seireitei in total has at least 2404 Districts as it works with Cardinal directions and is a perfect circle.
For context, irl Japan only has 480 districts despite how large of a country it is (Seireitei is based off of Japan as well), ironically Lord_Xcano and I found the math behind Japan's irl district and Seireitei's district size with Yoruichi's statement line up almost perfectly. That size is not far off from the size taken from Fade to Black's size statement as well.
Remember, these 2404 Districts fit inside of Seireitei with it's mansions, cities, forests, lakes, mountains, Divisions, prisons, and etc. and etc.
Its big as ****.
Final Conclusion
Seireitei is huge as **** and it's getting tiring having to put up with Damage try every 4 months to regurgitate his same failed talking points to downgrade Bleach because of his personal bias.
There is literally too much context, implication, statements, and actual landmarks inside of Seireitei that Kubo is consistent with to disregard them all entirely for aerials that are literally not consistent with one another that disregard actual canon landmarks like the entire existence of the Rukongai and the mountains, mansions, forests, cities, districts, hills, buildings, prisons, towers, Divisions, factories, and etc. inside of the Seireitei.
A discussion rule needs to be made about this because it's getting annoying having to only put up with one user, a staff member, repeatedly try and fail to downgrade this every 4 months only to be disproven every time.
Visuals Are Inconsistent
They are heavily inconsistent with one another while the statements are consistent and support a large Seireitei.
It's clearly obvious with Kubo's words that he intends for Seireitei to be huge; however, this can't be actually depicted with art so he repeatedly gives statements of a large size for Seireitei that I will bring up further down.
The largest piece of evidence for this is Kubo's own words on backgrounds and the existence of the Rukongai.
Rukongai
Never once in all the aerials of Seireitei (literally click the links Damage has given) do we see the Rukongai besides the Seireitei.
However, obviously that can't be true because we are told several times that the Rukongai lies directly outside the walls of Seireitei comprising of 320 districts with 80 in the North, 80 in the South, 80 in the East, and 80 in the West (I'll mention districts again later). None of the aerials show this, yet it is always said that it lies directly outside the walls and we are shown when they walk in the Rukongai that it is outside the walls. The aerials are inconsistent with each other and they do not even display what we know exist inside Seireitei (the mountains and other things I will explain further) and the things that exist directly outside the walls. I chalk it up to Kubo being lazy and not wanting to draw the aerials to scale and accurate as he has built his world to be, he consistently implies Seireitei is big and that the Rukongai is right outside which goes to my next point.
Small fact, Mayuri eliminated 28,000 souls from one of Rukongai's 64th District. There are 320 of these Districts.
Kubo Draws Very Little
Kubo doesn't even draw backgrounds, why would he keep drawing everything he states and consistently implies for the size of Seireitei to scale when the guy doesn't even draw backgrounds?
Kubo has literally said he avoids drawing too much like backgrounds because it takes focus away from what is important, the action and story.
Obviously his aerials are all inconsistent with each other because that's not his focus, thus he consistently states that it's big and has large things inside of it.
Too Inconsistent and Disregard Canon
First take the size of these scans and compare them to each other, not only are they not even consistent with each other, they literally ignore things that canonically exist in Seireitei and outside of it.
Yama's Division is a huge building that is not seen in any of the aerials.
Chojiro as buried on a hill that is above the normal buildings, yet no aerial shows it.
There are mountains directly located inside the Rukongai, yet only one aerial shows mountains right outside Seireitei.
That same aerial literally makes Seireitei look like 20 city blocks big. It's literally inconsistent with every other scan.
Literally the page after that has an aerial that contradicts it. These aerials are literally all inconsistent with each other.
Next page even makes it smaller than what we saw in the previous page. Should these aerials be taken as fact despite being inconsistent and ignoring canon statements and WoG?
This view of the Sokyoku literally contradicts every other view of it and makes it bigger than the majority of aerials.
This view is perhaps the best we have, but even it is inconsistent with this view. The Sokyoku and Senzaikyu are suppose to be the same size as Silbern (Silbern is the building with arches in the middle) and both are located in the center of Vandereich/Seireitei, yet when lined up, Seireitei and Vandereich's size are not even close to being the same when they are suppose to be the same size.
This view doesn't even show the Silbern, and many scans already show the Silbern tower over everything and put it at a size similar with the Sokyoku/Senzaikyu. So no, these aerials are not consistent with each other at all.
Those bushes that surround the Sokyoku are actually a giant forest with branches bigger than people, trunks bigger than people, and the forest itself is pretty damn big despite being the bushes around the Sokyoku. The aerials from outside sometimes show and sometimes don't show this forest, further proof of their inconsistency.
Also the meteor is pretty inconsistent, have you tried lining up the shots of the meteor with the visible Shakonmaku (the dome surrounding Seireitei)? They aren't even consistent with each other nor with other scans showing the Shakonmaku.
We have numerous scans that support Seireitei for being big and statements that Seireitei encompasses a huge area. We repeatedly get these facts and statements till the end of the series, yet the few aerials that exist also contradict each other and the canon facts that we know. So yeah, why stick with inconsistent visuals that we know Kubo does not care for than his own consistent statements and implications?
Mountains Are Inside SeireiteiyA4fson.jpg
This one is fairly obvious and actually has a statement for support.
First off, it is directly stated that the location for this area is The Seireitei and that it is the Training Grounds Behind Thirteenth Company's Barracks.
This is word confirmation that this area is located inside the Seireitei.
However, one of the two biggest reasonings that these mountains are inside the Seireitei and not outside is the fact that we cannot see the Seireiheki, the walls that surround Seireitei, they are not visible in this entire scene and a later scene 250 chapters later on in the series.
However, what I find to be the largest and undeniable piece of evidence for mountains existing in Seireitei are literally in a scan Damage linked himself that can be found in We Do knot Always Love You, where it's detailed that two characters travel mountainous terrain and even forests over several days while traveling inside the Seireitei itself. That is direct proof of not only mountains, but forests existing inside Seireitei.
JjCXX2w.png
This is just one of the 13 Division Barracks located inside of Seireitei. One Division is confirmed to have mountains inside of them and forests are confirmed inside the Seireitei as well.
The Divisions
The Divisions are huge and we know there are 13 of them. One Division have mountainous terrain and confirmation of forests. One of the forest is located in the 7th Division as that is where the "scent of a fellow wolf" is located, Sajin Komamura who stays in the 7th Division area which is the forest he is found in.
More supporting evidence of the size of these Divisions can be found in the series. All the Divisions at least have the three following: the Barracks for the Division, the Company for the Division (offices and living areas), and the Training Grounds (13th is confirmed to have mountains in their training grounds).
1st Division
It is confirmed to hold a prison under it, the prison is huge as it holds several layers in it as well which includes Muken which expands for a huge area as we all know, with hills and forests as well.
Shinji Hirako remarks how huge the 1st Division Barracks are, in comparison to his 5th Division most likely.
116 1st Division Members were guarding the Northern Gate of Seireitei (the white walls have 4 gates for the cardinal directions), the 1st Division is located closer towards the center of Seireitei near the Senzaikyu and Sokyoku. The Division is big and has a lot of members.
2nd Division
2nd Division is pretty big and perhaps one of the biggest. It not only houses the 2nd Division Barracks, Company, Training Grounds, but also the Secret Remote Squad which is further made up of 5 Divisions on it's own.
One of those 5 Divisions of the Secret Remote Squad has it's own seclude prison that it manages which is surrounded by a pretty large moat as well (250 feet wide). Kisuke Urahara ran this part of the Division.
It's got like a castle on a hill for it's Division Company too for some reason.
3rd Division
WkMbAmg.png
Not much is known besides Gin planting trees around this division.
It has a rather large open field (you can see the Japanese Kanji for 3 on the building) for it's Company which is apparently so large Toshiro's Shikai range fits inside just the 3rd Division area as there were no mentions from the other Divisions or Yamamoto of Toshiro's actions for using his Shikai and changing the weather in a 11.781 kilometer radius.
Still has it's training grounds, barracks, and company though.
4th Division
4th Division has a hospital inside of it as well as its usual Company, Barracks, and Training Grounds.
Not only that, it has a prison in it as well with at least 75 different cells in this prison.
5th Division
5th Company has a special prison (it held Izuru and Momo when they had drawn their weapons inside the Seireitei when it was illegal to do).
Besides that it has the usual Barracks, Company, and Training Grounds.
6th Division
You guessed it, it's own prison (held Renji and Rukia when Renji lost to Ichigo by order of Byakuya and Rukia after being detained from the Real World).
Also seems to have a more rich area unlike the other Divisions (most likely due to Byakuya being rich).
Then the usual 3 areas of a Division as well.
7th DivisionJjCXX2w.png
This is Komamura's Division which I already linked a statement above that showed it having a forest and mountainous terrain being crossed to enter it's forest.
Then the usual 3 areas of the Division as well.
8th Division
Not much is known besides the Soul Reapers Women's Meeting occurring here and that it has a huge courtyard.
Then the usual 3 areas of the Division as well.
9th Division
It holds the editorial and news publishing department for Seireitei.
Then the usual 3 areas.
10th Division
We've seen nothing of this Division, we just know it monitors Nariyuki City.
The usual 3 areas as well.
11th Division
We know nothing about 11th Division's area.
12th DivisionJPZFk5p.png
This one is big because of the Shinigami Research and Development Institute being located inside the Division as Kisuke founded it upon the Division.
The SRDI is big, they use elevators for the different levels and even institutes as the SRDI is further divided into different sections.
It even has factory stations on the surface.
On top of all of this is, Mayuri used his Bankai inside the Division which has a poison radius of near 200 meters (Viz mistranslated this line) and just like with Toshiro's Shikai range this poison did not affect the other Divisions nor was there mentions from Yamamoto or other Divisions of the poison affecting them.
This Division is big and still has the usual 3 areas of the Training Grounds, Barracks, and Company.
13th Division
There's still more here, besides the already confirmed mountains inside this Division, it also has a lake in it for Captain Ukitake.
Conclusion
The 13 Divisions are all pretty damn huge with large areas and cut into different sections. There are 13 of them and they all exist inside the Seireitei despite their large sizes and the fact that they don't make up the entirety of the Seireitei as it still has other sections and districts that I will be going over down the thread.
It's big as ****.
Other Notable Landmarks
There is more besides the Divisions, mountains, forests and etc. that I've covered so far.
CitiesCxk0HQ0.png
Hisagi states that he feels Yamamoto's Reiatsu coming from "The Third Old City"
This should be notable given that Hisagi is incredibly weakened right here and Yamamoto is going all out flexing his Reiatsu in Shikai, Hisagi being weakened due to his Reiryoku and Reiatsu being drained by Yumichika previously should have dampened Reiatsu sensing. Yet he could still sense Yamamoto's Reiatsu and was fine sensing it.
Nanao in the presence of an angry base Yamamoto was immediately incapacitated by his Reiatsu that Kyoraku had to shunpo her away from his Reiatsu and back in the same page, Yamamoto even praised his speed. Where the math comes in, during the fight between Aizen and the Captains, Yamamoto's Reiatsu was crushing and killing Hollows from over 13 miles away, possibly closer to 15-16 miles, as they were centered in Karakura Town.
"How do you know it was Yamamoto's Reiatsu?" Yamamoto is the most powerful person in Bleach at this point and even Aizen had admitted this.
So Hisagi would have to have been miles away from Yamamoto and the city he was in to have sensed Yama at all without suffering from the negative effects like Nanao.
So Seireitei has multiple cities located inside of it and they are huge as well.
Mansions / Living Areas
There are a lot of these for some reason.
Byakuya and Omaeda both have mansions due to wealth and nobility; however, they aren't the only ones as well (there are 4 Noble Families which Omaeda is not part of).
Byakuya's mansion is big.
Has a stream going through it.
Has a large open area located on it's grounds for graves.
Large enough for races down it's corridors and secret meetings to be held without Byakuya knowing given it's size.
Has secret compartments, giant fields, and personal guards for it's grounds.
It's just huge in general.
Oh yeah, and the scarf Byakuya is always wearing could buy 10 more mansions that are in the Seireitei. So there are more of these giant mansions besides Byakuya's Omaeda's, and the 3 other Royal Families.
These mansions all fit alongside the 13 Divisions, mountains, forests, cities, and other landmarks I will mention.
Stores / Departments
There's a lot of these.
Omaeda has jewelry and metal factories and stores with employees of course.
There are fashion departments / stores.
Restaurants and random food stores (Rangiku mentions meat/soba bun stores and liquor stores as well).
Canals
Canals and rivers exist under Seireitei.
Kido Corps Division
There is another entire Division solely for Kido Corps.
Forest
Besides the forest located in the 7th Division, we are told there are forest(s), plural, and we do know of the forest surrounding the Sokyoku that I mentioned earlier:
Those bushes that surround the Sokyoku are actually a giant forest with branches bigger than people, trunks bigger than people, and the forest itself is pretty damn big despite being the bushes around the Sokyoku.
Soul Reaper Academyb49242z.png
Obviously there is a Soul Reaper Academy.
Academies have to have dorms for their student body.
The student body is huge given it has 6th years in its school. My university is a 4 year university and it has a student body of over 30,000 for instance and 11,000 in Graduate school (Berkeley).
Conclusion
All of this exists inside of the Seireitei together alongside the already huge 13 Divisions.
It's big as ****.
Timeframes and Travel Time
Seireitei is huge and it's big enough that people can literally not see each other for over 40 years.
Todo was ordered by Kensei to go straight from their location in the Rukongai's West Fugai's 6th District to Kisuke in the 12th Division SRDI; however, Tendo was in a hurry and did not delay yet it took him from morning to midnight to go back and forth these two points from the Rukongai and Seireitei.
Another good example would be the entirety off the Soul Society arc. Ichigo's entire group was running around Seireitei trying to find Rukia for several days (over 5) and were making no ground despite their endurance (Ichigo and Uryu training non-stop for several days straight) and superhuman speed.
Yoruichi's 40 day statement can be included here.
The Wolf Cubs several day traveling statement over mountainous terrain and forests can be included here.
Seireitei is huge and Kubo has consistently portrayed it to be so massive it takes a long time to get around to travel through it.
Its big as ****.
The Vandenreich is a CountryietL0vq.png
Yhwach's empire is literally sectioned into territories.
His Empire is literally referred to as a country and considers Seireitei as another country ("not this country").
Yhwach's Empire is the same size as the Seireitei, it existed in it's shadows.
Yhwach's Empire = Country
Seireitei = Country
Vandenreich = Seireitei
Country = Vandenreich
Seireitei is a country in statement.
Its big as ****
Seireitei is Comprised of DistrictsuKNV8lr.png
There are numerous statements of Districts existing inside of Seireitei (Kubo has already given confirmation of 320 districts for the Rukongai and numerous statements of specific Districts in the Rukongai). The Seireitei has a lot more than the Rukongai with the numbers we have and these District statements go as far back as the Soul Society Arc (always with a number and cardinal direction as the Rukongai Districts are).
Seireitei's West section has at least 601 Districts which means Seireitei in total has at least 2404 Districts as it works with Cardinal directions and is a perfect circle.
For context, irl Japan only has 480 districts despite how large of a country it is (Seireitei is based off of Japan as well), ironically Lord_Xcano and I found the math behind Japan's irl district and Seireitei's district size with Yoruichi's statement line up almost perfectly. That size is not far off from the size taken from Fade to Black's size statement as well.
Remember, these 2404 Districts fit inside of Seireitei with it's mansions, cities, forests, lakes, mountains, Divisions, prisons, and etc. and etc.
Its big as ****.
Final Conclusion
Seireitei is huge as **** and it's getting tiring having to put up with Damage try every 4 months to regurgitate his same failed talking points to downgrade Bleach because of his personal bias.
There is literally too much context, implication, statements, and actual landmarks inside of Seireitei that Kubo is consistent with to disregard them all entirely for aerials that are literally not consistent with one another that disregard actual canon landmarks like the entire existence of the Rukongai and the mountains, mansions, forests, cities, districts, hills, buildings, prisons, towers, Divisions, factories, and etc. inside of the Seireitei.
A discussion rule needs to be made about this because it's getting annoying having to only put up with one user, a staff member, repeatedly try and fail to downgrade this every 4 months only to be disproven every time.
- 6,288
- 2,735
has not stop people from deleting stuff no matter how good
- 5,681
- 4,918
That post was beautiful
All I will say is that's what it truly is
All I will say is that's what it truly is
- 6
- 0
Gerard is of a power and magnitude that isn't even on the same realm, I would keep him as a pinnacle of strength aside from Juha/Ichigo/Aizen. The Miracle is an absolutely ridiculous ability coupled with his natural strength, which of course can have very odd interactions with things like the Antithesis or Balance theoretically.
Byakuya and Bankai Kenpachi are completely up to Kubo for who is really stronger imo, they're not particularly given to have a large gulf between them for it, so it's entirely up to the circumstances and narrative. Raw power has always been Kenpachi but there's more to fights than arm wrestling, and Byakuya doesn't have so much less reiatsu that his abilities wouldn't work on him. They would both be very effective against other opponents on a similar platform to show it.
Askin can easily die. That automatically makes him worse than Lille, Pernida, and Gerard, which is a weird thing to consider (unless I misunderstood) that Askin could be stronger. You can pump Lille, Pernida, and Gerard full of death blows and they will refuse to die, and likely keep evolving to kill you. Askin is relatively weak when you can deal him a blow despite his interesting array of powers, which still make him incredibly formidable, but not on the level of the previous 3, and possibly of course even the controversial Visionary. At the end of the day, you deal a death blow to the death dealer and he does actually stay dead. Not much for protection against one shots.
As to Ginjo, it's completely serviceable to put the canon into line, ignoring minor deviations, and place him at base Aizen tier. Ginjo powered up a lot, but the issue here also is that Isshin basically scales to base Aizen. Kyoka Suigetsu is what grants Aizen a monumental, hax advantage over all characters if they do not have the reiatsu to break it outright, which of course currently, no being other than Ichigo does. So a villain who is in a later arc, scaling to a villain in their base form (which is a strong captain level) at max in a previous arc, is not a very ridiculous thought to entertain. Keep in mind if you're also trying to say Aizen as he's merging is the same as Ginjo, we might disagree as Aizen is not only very unfamiliar with his new power and body, but he is adapting into it and not using his best abilities (kido and shikai) as much, relying on his physical attributes which while powerful, were not particularly elite compared to someone like Kyoraku. Not to mention Ginjo has a very particular moveset suited to fighting Fullbringers more so than a random Captain that might not like him. Tsukishima however has a wildly powerful ability against anyone that he might come across, but it's relatively useless against something that gains a massive amount of reiatsu which can just nullify abilities of lesser power, like transcendent aizen or a ginjo that has been gorging himself for a long time. Hence why Ginjo can be stated in manga to beat or be stronger than Tsukishima sometimes, but this couldn't scale to a godlike Aizen in any regard unless considering the potential to keep growing could relate to Ichigo's circumstance in matching him. The power to once more use [better] Mugetsu does not mean you are the power of Mugetsu as it is either.
A question I just recently had though and am editing this post for: If Yamamoto's shikai was essentially transcendent (so by extension his bankai would be), was there a possibility that Aizen could have been dealt the death sentence by Yamamoto's (functional) hand? Certainly seems like Ryujin Jakka would have the power to kill/erase a weakened god Aizen instead of considering it a lost cause and giving him a long solitary confinement in the deepest level.
Byakuya and Bankai Kenpachi are completely up to Kubo for who is really stronger imo, they're not particularly given to have a large gulf between them for it, so it's entirely up to the circumstances and narrative. Raw power has always been Kenpachi but there's more to fights than arm wrestling, and Byakuya doesn't have so much less reiatsu that his abilities wouldn't work on him. They would both be very effective against other opponents on a similar platform to show it.
Askin can easily die. That automatically makes him worse than Lille, Pernida, and Gerard, which is a weird thing to consider (unless I misunderstood) that Askin could be stronger. You can pump Lille, Pernida, and Gerard full of death blows and they will refuse to die, and likely keep evolving to kill you. Askin is relatively weak when you can deal him a blow despite his interesting array of powers, which still make him incredibly formidable, but not on the level of the previous 3, and possibly of course even the controversial Visionary. At the end of the day, you deal a death blow to the death dealer and he does actually stay dead. Not much for protection against one shots.
As to Ginjo, it's completely serviceable to put the canon into line, ignoring minor deviations, and place him at base Aizen tier. Ginjo powered up a lot, but the issue here also is that Isshin basically scales to base Aizen. Kyoka Suigetsu is what grants Aizen a monumental, hax advantage over all characters if they do not have the reiatsu to break it outright, which of course currently, no being other than Ichigo does. So a villain who is in a later arc, scaling to a villain in their base form (which is a strong captain level) at max in a previous arc, is not a very ridiculous thought to entertain. Keep in mind if you're also trying to say Aizen as he's merging is the same as Ginjo, we might disagree as Aizen is not only very unfamiliar with his new power and body, but he is adapting into it and not using his best abilities (kido and shikai) as much, relying on his physical attributes which while powerful, were not particularly elite compared to someone like Kyoraku. Not to mention Ginjo has a very particular moveset suited to fighting Fullbringers more so than a random Captain that might not like him. Tsukishima however has a wildly powerful ability against anyone that he might come across, but it's relatively useless against something that gains a massive amount of reiatsu which can just nullify abilities of lesser power, like transcendent aizen or a ginjo that has been gorging himself for a long time. Hence why Ginjo can be stated in manga to beat or be stronger than Tsukishima sometimes, but this couldn't scale to a godlike Aizen in any regard unless considering the potential to keep growing could relate to Ichigo's circumstance in matching him. The power to once more use [better] Mugetsu does not mean you are the power of Mugetsu as it is either.
A question I just recently had though and am editing this post for: If Yamamoto's shikai was essentially transcendent (so by extension his bankai would be), was there a possibility that Aizen could have been dealt the death sentence by Yamamoto's (functional) hand? Certainly seems like Ryujin Jakka would have the power to kill/erase a weakened god Aizen instead of considering it a lost cause and giving him a long solitary confinement in the deepest level.
Last edited:
- 1,095
- 374
I read Imade’s post and honestly it was one of the best posts I’ve seen on this sight and I wholeheartedly agree with it 100%, I do also wanna say to not be so hard on Damage sometimes. I’ve disagreed with him in the past and I agree his threads about the size of Seiretei are excessive but he’s also a guy that would just prefer using visuals most of the time because he is a calc member and that’s mostly what they go off of.
im not saying that’s always right because this is a situation where statements make 100% more sense than the inconsistent visuals provided but I have come to see that’s he’s also a very knowledgeable member on Bleach and I agree with some of the other things he’s said. And looking back I regret making some of the comments I’ve made to him and other members here so please don’t be so hard on the guy
im not saying that’s always right because this is a situation where statements make 100% more sense than the inconsistent visuals provided but I have come to see that’s he’s also a very knowledgeable member on Bleach and I agree with some of the other things he’s said. And looking back I regret making some of the comments I’ve made to him and other members here so please don’t be so hard on the guy
- 6,288
- 2,735
what makes asking > gerald?
- 19,685
- 29,025
The scale is
Askin ~ Kisuke >= Aura > Tokinada ~ Byakuya ~ V2 Gerard
My line of reasoning for Tokinada ~ Byakuya is that it’s stated they have similar reiatsu levels and we know Shinigami battles are specifically determined by reiatsu. Additionally, Kisuke informs us it’s reiatsu that determines a Shinigami’s stats. Also, a fatigued Tokinada is able to take (albeit barely) Ginjo’s attacks. Ginjo being the guy who could possibly beat Hikone, Hikone being the child who scales above pretty much the entire EoS verse that’s alive.
- 8,184
- 2,214
As usual IMade with the incredibly detailed factual posts.
Similar threads
