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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Jo-Smooth said:
Kenpachi continuing fighting is assuming that he would stay conscious after Gerard's attack. I showed you the scaling chain before, but let me take out Toshiro and Byakuya and just show it more simply

Vollstandig Gerard w/ Miracle Amp from Bankai Kenpachi > Hypothetical Vollstandig Gerard >= Hypotherical Full Power Bankai Kenpachi > Bankai Kenpachi >>> God Sized Gerard >= Shikai Kenpachi w/o the Eyepatch

Easy scaling. Vollstandig as form >= Bankai lore wise. Gerard and Kenpachi were even in God Size/Shikai, or Gerard was superior. Kenpachi gets a Bankai level amp and smokes Gerard. Gerard gets a Bankai or beyond level amp, and the ratio between them would be the same or a larger difference in Gerards favor. Then Gerard gets all of the damage that Bankai Kenpachi inflicted stacked into him.

And Kenpachi's body exploded because Yachiru tried to raise him to a level to fight Vollstandig Gerard w/ the Bankai Kenpachi Miracle amp, and his body wasn't able to handle it. Meanwhile Gerard, Byakuya and Toshiro were able to contend with and overpower that version of Gerard, and then went on to fight a version of Gerard that even Volls w/BanKen Amp didn't even compare to
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Gerard doesn't absorbed the "power" he was killed with. He transform his damage into God size. Nobody scales to his Bankai which didn't event show the full extend of its power.

6fcbe8933378176a246b4accbdea46ca.jpg
 
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why is damage trying to refute consistent statements using inconsistent visuals like holy shit
on a side note can't wait for that loki/bleach collab later today 👌
 
@Jo-Smooth, your post about Ginjo not training and being able to contend with Hikone and somewhat fight Fullbring bankai Ichigo who could harm Yhwach while he’s exhausted is one of the main reasons I think they both could be High 6A
 
If kubo made an onlyfans but did original bleach art could it work? Id join for that.
if he wanted to pose in sexy wear id be fine aswell
 
damage uses the argument that expressions are not consistent with images to refute, which is a very absurd argument in itself, the only thing pictures that do not have the slightest affinity with each other have in common is that they give lower balls than expressions. but the pictures support phrases that contradict not just the wording but the entire story and narrative. the only thing that contradicts statements are pictures, which are also contradictory in themselves. as for the issue of clouds, clouds can exist no more than 85 km above the Earth, this is a good information, but I don't think the author knows, for example, I have now learned that clouds can exist at the highest 85 km altitude. if I wrote a story before this crt and drew a structure at an altitude of 200 km, I could put clouds on it because I didn't know this information. I don't think kubo knows the maximum height at which clouds can be, so I don't think it's a counter-argument. do you think kubo thought that "seiretei size 200 km or height 100 km can not be superior cloud" of course the author did not think that damage in the cloud argument according to seiretei 180 km can not be greater, but seiretei 180 km with its full meaning contradicts so much that there is no need to say.
 
AKUTO123 said:
damage uses the argument that expressions are not consistent with images to refute, which is a very absurd argument in itself, the only thing pictures that do not have the slightest affinity with each other have in common is that they give lower balls than expressions. but the pictures support phrases that contradict not just the wording but the entire story and narrative. the only thing that contradicts statements are pictures, which are also contradictory in themselves. as for the issue of clouds, clouds can exist no more than 85 km above the Earth, this is a good information, but I don't think the author knows, for example, I have now learned that clouds can exist at the highest 85 km altitude. if I wrote a story before this crt and drew a structure at an altitude of 200 km, I could put clouds on it because I didn't know this information. I don't think kubo knows the maximum height at which clouds can be, so I don't think it's a counter-argument. do you think kubo thought that "seiretei size 200 km or height 100 km can not be superior cloud" of course the author did not think that damage in the cloud argument according to seiretei 180 km can not be greater, but seiretei 180 km with its full meaning contradicts so much that there is no need to say.
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for me to debate whether someone with the authority to respond to the debate can throw it away.
 
Whether its consistent or not kubo statements clearly had intented for the seireitei to be massive, inconsistent visuals shouldnt be used to refute it.
iirc this happen with black clover inconsistent castle/mountain/kingdom? so they used a statement instead.
 
Q. Have you ever thought that there is a difference between the manga and anime in terms of the distance or the relationships of the characters?
A. I watched the Bleach anime untill the Soul Society thinking "Changing things so much this way will make the story not add up later on." I started reviewing the script when the Arrancar arc (in manga) started because they really didn't understand the characters' personalities.(Maybe he's talking about the changes regarding Orihime's character in the first 2 arcs, some stuff like that original shinigami character that was added in the memories in the rain arc in Volume 3)

Kubo even said on TBS Radio interview from 2017 that he wasn't very excited with the changes in the script so much that they even make him feel sick of his stomach. So this just keeps proving he wasn't very pleased with some anime changes.
Click to expand...

BRUH
 
Loyd said:
Shame to admit i dont calc can someone give me the tldr issue with the meteor calc?
Click to expand...
TL;DR: we don't directly pixelscale the meteor to the Seireitei but we do angsize the size of the meteor from the distance based on the Seireitei's dome which involves scaling the meteor.

Kubo has apparently proven himself to be a terrible artist when it comes to the scale/size of things, but when it comes to the size of the meteor we accept that he scaled it perfectly in line with our calculation for the size of the Seireitei.

That's all I've got to say about it here.
 
Ok, from what i can gather it seems sus?

iirc the meteor was enough to destroy seireitei

Before new info, databooks come out,

For now should we just give the meteor ap destruction of the currently accepted statement for the seireitei size?

i sound like a fkn flunk.
oof 6-B isnt a bad spot right guys?
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
I mean, tough shit for us, but that's not inherently true. Damage isn't stagnant in his ways. There was a time where he said "I can see Yhwach being 3-A". Sure he changed his mind, but opinions change.
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You have no idea how hard I find picturing this lmao
 
Loyd said:
Shame to admit i dont calc can someone give me the tldr issue with the meteor calc?
Click to expand...
The issue is that damage thinks if we cannot rely on the visuals of Seireitei we cannot rely on any visuals within the manga. But one structure having poor/inconsistent/contradicted visuals =/= everything having poor/inconsistent/contradicted visuals.
 
Isn’t there 3 different shots of the meteor we can calc? There is one falling to the dome, another pushing through the dome and the current ang size calc? Maybe make a calc of all of them and the meteor AP has to be one of them at least.
 
AppleLord said:
Gerard doesn't absorbed the "power" he was killed with. He transform his damage into God size. Nobody scales to his Bankai which didn't event show the full extend of its power.
Click to expand...
I wasn't saying Gerard absorbed Bankai Kenpachi's power, I'm saying that the two were relative in their previous forms, with Gerard having the slight edge. Then Kenpachi gets a Bankai level amp. Beats on Gerard. Then Gerard gets a Bankai level amp on top of a Miracle Amp from all of the damage that Kenpachi inflicted on him. Just the Vollstandig Amp alone would put them at the same power difference that they were at between God Sized and Shikai, but the Miracle Amp he got just solidifies that he'd be stronger.

That and the way its worded in the Viz translation directly implies that the damage inflicted on him is proportionate to the amount of power get gets in return. It's actually blatantly shown, in the case of Byakuya and Toshiro, no implications needed. Bankai Kenpachi inflicted a high amount of damage and split him in two, meaning he should get the biggest Miracle Amp from that exchange than any he got previously, and the second highest overall behind the miracle amp he got from Toshiro and Byakuya
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Isn’t there 3 different shots of the meteor we can calc? There is one falling to the dome, another pushing through the dome and the current ang size calc? Maybe make a calc of all of them and the meteor AP has to be one of them at least.
Click to expand...
IMO a meteor of that size would be impossible not to create seismic activity, so I feel like using the meteor impact formula is the absolute best option, as it relies on zero visuals at all. But as far as visuals go, our current calc is the best for avoiding inconsistencies with Seireitei's size.
 
I think he thinks we purely base CO's calc based on pixel scaling it to the statements. But we don't we compromised between statements and visuals for the calc.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
I think he thinks we purely base CO's calc based on pixel scaling it to the statements. But we don't we compromised between statements and visuals for the calc.
Click to expand...
We shouldn't be mixing them up if we're calling the visuals unreliable.

I've done some scaling for Las Noches, and to no surprise the visuals are drastically less than the statements-only method for detirmining its size.
 
I've done some scaling for Las Noches, and to no surprise the visuals are drastically less than the statements-only method for determining its size.
Click to expand...

you know, i wonder if kurakura town has this problem as well. Kubo at this point is just bad at scale
 
Damage3245 said:
We shouldn't be mixing them up if we're calling the visuals unreliable.

I've done some scaling for Las Noches, and to no surprise the visuals are drastically less than the statements-only method for detirmining its size.
Click to expand...
I'm not disagreeing with you, we have statements to help us fill in the gaps, CO can destroy LN via statements, GRC can destroy LN via statements, CO visible vapes, etc etc etc.
 
Jo-Smooth said:
I wasn't saying Gerard absorbed Bankai Kenpachi's power, I'm saying that the two were relative in their previous forms, with Gerard having the slight edge. Then Kenpachi gets a Bankai level amp. Beats on Gerard. Then Gerard gets a Bankai level amp on top of a Miracle Amp from all of the damage that Kenpachi inflicted on him. Just the Vollstandig Amp alone would put them at the same power difference that they were at between God Sized and Shikai, but the Miracle Amp he got just solidifies that he'd be stronger.

That and the way its worded in the Viz translation directly implies that the damage inflicted on him is proportionate to the amount of power get gets in return. It's actually blatantly shown, in the case of Byakuya and Toshiro, no implications needed. Bankai Kenpachi inflicted a high amount of damage and split him in two, meaning he should get the biggest Miracle Amp from that exchange than any he got previously, and the second highest overall behind the miracle amp he got from Toshiro and Byakuya
Click to expand...
“Then Gerard gets a Bankai level amp on top of a Miracle Amp from all of the damage that Kenpachi inflicted on him.”

No evidence he got as strong as Bankai Kenpachi, and getting a Bankai level amp is vague and unqualified.
 
AppleLord said:
No evidence he got as strong as Bankai Kenpachi, and getting a Bankai level amp is vague and unqualified.
Click to expand...
Wym no evidence he got as strong as him lmao. They were even or Gerard was superior in their previous forms, and they got similar amps. It's simple scaling. Lemme simplify it. If I'm at a 10, and you're at a 10, and then I get a 10x amp and get to 100 and stomp your 10, then you get a 10x amp, the difference between us would be the same as before. Bankai level amp isn't vague. We're not talking about VS Battle wiki standards of profiles here. Bankai is said to be a 5-10x amp, Resurreccion was stated to be similar to Bankai in terms of the amp, and Vollstandig was shown or implied to be superior to Bankai level amps. Before you say 'Bankai doesn't specifically enhance all stats but it varies between users' we saw that Letzt Stil and Vollstandig do enhance all stats and doesn't vary. And we know it also enhances their schrifts. Gerard's schrift is one that increases his strength, speed, dura etc so there's no reason to say why his stats wouldn't be enhanced.

Shikai Kenpachi and God Sized Gerard would be a 1. Kenpachi goes Bankai and gets his 10x amp. So Kenpachi would be a 10. Then he slaps up God Sized Gerard, and now Gerard goes Vollstandig. Vollstandig is said to be a superior version of Letzt Stil, which in itself let Uryu who was weaker than Base Mayuri basically one shot his Bankai. That and the Sternritters said that the shinigami had a better chance fighting the Quincy with their Bankai stolen and used against them than the had with their Bankai reclaimed vs the Vollstandig. So Gerard would be 10+ in Vollstandig. Then the Miracle Amp would boost him even higher than that.

Vollstandig + BanKen Miracle Damage Gerard > Vollstandig Gerard (Hypothetical as he never existed in Vols without the Miracle Amp) >= Bankai Kenpachi >>> God Sized Gerard >= Shikai Kenpachi

This isn't even taking into account the fact that Kenpachi doesn't even get the full 10x amp that a mastered Bankai would have and that his body can't handle his full power. And Yachiru tried to raise Kenpachi to a level where he could fight Vols Gerard, implying that the Kenpachi that just smacked him around wasn't strong enough to handle this version of Gerard. That's also not getting into the argument that Gerard's schirft's potency for damage scaling to power would be increased due to his Vols. Or that Kubo could've made Toshiro and Byakuya fight weaker versions of Gerard first and then had Kenpachi fight the stronger versions of Gerard if he wanted to portray that Kenpachi was stronger than them. He didn't only have them fight the version of Gerard that Kenpachi body couldn't handle trying to match and (potentially) one shotted him, but they also fought a form that was so superior to that form offscreen for a while without dying. And when we were shown the panel, it was just those two fighting him, not Kenpachi. The idea of Kenpachi being stronger than them is more of people's perceptions of him rather than what's been shown in front of us in the last arc. Had Adult Toshiro fought God Sized Gerard and then tapped out due to stamina or his body failing, and then Kenpachi and Byakuya went on to fight the stronger versions of Gerard, I don't think anyone would be arguing that Toshiro would be as strong as Kenpachi or Byakuya. But for some reason people do that for Kenpachi
 
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