Baki Vs Baki | Martial Artist Fights A Ninja

[SlendVeny]

And why is that...?

Because Gaara wasn't even a shinobi yet, and hadn't trained, plus he aged from being a toddler to being like 12 years old, then Chunin Exams/Konoha Crush Sasuke outsped his Sand Shield, then Partial Transformation Gaara outsped him, and was called a monster by him, with Sasuke only being able to keep up by predicting his moves with the Sharingan, and even needing the Chidori to hit him in CS1, then Naruto reacted to attacks from Partial Transformation Gaara, then Naruto had an arc where he trained, then Kidomaru blocked attacks from Naruto in base. Now, two Jonin were able to nearly kill the Sound 4, including Sakon/Ukon, in a 2v4/2v5, even after the entire Sound 4 had both greatly enhanced themselves with CS1 and multiplied their Chakra by 10x with CS2, and these Jonin were tired, weakened, injured, and out of chakra. Baki could fight one of these Jonin for an hour and was fine. I cannot stress enough how far below him the Mach 58 value is.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Because Gaara wasn't even a shinobi yet, and hadn't trained, plus he aged from being a toddler to being like 12 years old, then Chunin Exams/Konoha Crush Sasuke outsped his Sand Shield, then Partial Transformation Gaara outsped him, and was called a monster by him, with Sasuke only being able to keep up by predicting his moves with the Sharingan, and even needing the Chidori to hit him in CS1, then Naruto reacted to attacks from Partial Transformation Gaara, then Naruto had an arc where he trained, then Kidomaru blocked attacks from Naruto in base. Now, two Jonin were able to nearly kill the Sound 4, including Sakon/Ukon, in a 2v4/2v5, even after the entire Sound 4 had both greatly enhanced themselves with CS1 and multiplied their Chakra by 10x with CS2, and these Jonin were tired, weakened, injured, and out of chakra. Baki could fight one of these Jonin for an hour and was fine. I cannot stress enough how far below him the Mach 58 value is.

Insane yap

That is simply not my problem

Yujiro should be much faster than Katsumi who's at minimum is mach 78... So again, it doesn't matter

 

[SlendVeny]

Insane yap

That is simply not my problem

Yujiro should be much faster than Katsumi who's at minimum is mach 78... So again, it doesn't matter

2 "Much Faster"s vs 5 "Much Faster"s tbh.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

2 "Much fasters" vs 5 "Much Fasters" tbh.

too bad it's unquantifiable.

 

[SlendVeny]

too bad it's unquantifiable.

Yeah, it is. And?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Yeah, it is. And?

and baki is still faster, giving him a huge upper hand to easier get in close and one shot the ninja

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Same with baki and yuijro

That's not a long chain scale tho.

The number 1 thing naruto supporters usually do, is give their character many opportunities to do something while the other character does nothing until he's beaten...

That's not entirely true but our character actually has a wincon that makes this possible, aka their speed which gives them the upperhand to move before another character can comprehend. So it's not baseless as you make it out to be, but infact a nitpick on a general consensus.

not true, he can still use it on people physically stronger than him, even if for a moment, he can get deadly openings and basically one shot him

if it's just normal fear hax it also isn't working on a jounin.

^

Simply can move out of his line of sight and easily time his approach to get in close, stop acting like the ninja is some sort of automatic omnidirectional bomb... He ain't that

He doesn't have the speed to move before sandy boi can do his thing lmao. Are you ignoring the chain scale arguments being presented? Sandy boi moves/acts faster in combat than baki would based on physical stats alone. Hanma would need the speed to instantly move start move out the line of sight (or do any action at all infact) and he's not getting close to sandy boi to harm him. He's more of a swordstyle/ ranged kinda guy, he isn't letting baki get close to him and start beating down on him especially with his superior movement speed. Any action sandy boi does first will always be faster than hanma because of his speed. His starting move has range aswell, even if baki supposedly "went invisible", he'd still be hit by the explosion.

Your assuming first that baki doesn't counter him before he can get his explosives off, 2x again ain't something impressive

Baki was capable of fighting pickle whos 200 kg while baki is 76 kg which is a 2.63157894737x difference in weight and power, he was able to overcome the damages from him and get even stronger mid battle

1. Sandy boi does his movs faster than baki before baki can act as he's massively faster. Baki has no counter to that and he wouldn't pull a speed amp as a first move unless he had prior knowledge which he doesn't. You're ignoring physical stats here for hanma's sake to replace with skill when their statistics are incredibly uneven.
2. I don't understand distributing how much they weight matter here. Weight has more ro do with LS (These guys have literal class M LS so 200kg ain't shit), nor does that relate to AP. A guy fighting a massive giant and winning doesn't mean they're 200x their strength especially if they have incredibly high LS and scale in the same tier. Againt you're ignoring physical statistics and the fact that gaki won't get to use his skill until he gets into physical contact with his opponent lol.

attack baki with baki will simply overcome it or use it to his advantage which he can do by utilizing Aiki

If he tries to used ranged weaponry, baki can redirect it back with insane timing and precision skills

Baki doesn't have resistance to explosion manipulation. The explosions from these bombs will hurt baki even if it's to a bruise or so. These guys are not relative in AP so there's no tanking argument, one is stronger than the other by 2x. You can say he'll overcome it but he'll still be bruised no matter what. He's also not redirecting a literal explosion, please stop using this skill argument to defend nonsensical takes.

Yes it does... To completely move your body out of the way you'd need to accelerate alot, while baki is able to go max speed nearly instantly

There's a reason why boxers use predictions to move out of the way from a punch beforehand since it acelarates much faster than you even tho it's a small target to evade which basically makes it nearly impossible for you to dodge and get away

1. These guys automatically have HHS+ speed. there's no acceleration period. And these guys are actively fighting one another so no offguard attacks will be made for one to accelerate to dodge said attack. From the moment they move they'll be HHS+. If a character is stated to need to accelerate to said speeds (shinra for example), then they need to accelerate.
2. It takes more energy to accelerate on a full sprint than react to simple things around you even at last minute, so yes it takes time to accelerate but it depends on what you need to do. It's far easier to accelerate yourself to react to an incoming pen being flung at you than run from point a to b. Reactions accelerate your speed almost instantly as opposed to traveling so that argument is kinda null. The fact that aswell your reactions will always be greater than your movement speed.

Does not matter how fast your reactions are if your body can't physically move out of the way fast enough, especially when the technique is used unexpectedly

ok so It's not like baki has large size 5 which would make escaping impossible for sandy boi..... Nor is baki faster than sandy boi to be suprise attacking him. Sandy boi has HHS+ stats massively unquantifably higher above mach 58 due to chain scaling. Sandy Boi will throw projectiles the moment they start fighting and since he can do movemens faster than baki, baki wouldhave a late start. it's as simple as it gets, stop ignoring the physical difference between these characters will "skill" which onky works in a physical altercation, baki can't use skill to dodge a explosion that covers tens of meters, he can survive but he'll be hurt giving sandy boi a advantage in physical state. Stop acting like baki is some ultimate sheild that defies the laws of AP and Speed lol.
Our arguments should now be what baki does after he takes the explosion as its clear he can't escape it.

What near blitz chain are you even talking about?

Ninja baki scales to Mach 58.338403207 while baki scales to Mach 78

Baki is the one with the big speed advantage + combined with his amps and it will be even a bigger gap, with also better agility and no wasted movement will also widen the gap even more

Baki can instantly make the ninja go unconscious even if he is many times stronger than him

1. You ignored the chain scale argument. Good job, it was presented by slendy, the chain scale he presented evens out and even exceeds a mere 1.33 times speed difference and i doubt baki's techniques can even that out unless it's near blitz tier increase.
2. 1.33 speed advantage now a big speed advantage but a 2x AP difference with both characters isn't?? What type of logic is this? But anyway, As I've stated, Sandy boi isn't really a physical fighter but a ranged one especially against a person who he doesn't know what jutsu they use. He'll keep distance, but as you've said baki can make himself invisible so baki might be able to sneak sandy boi and beat him up until hes knocked out.

Baki can utilize timings insanely well also, being able to time it to where your brain haven't even understood what's happened yet

Wouldn't this only work against a relative opponent. We're talking about a character with massively higher speed hence higher processing speed. Would it work on an opponent with a high chain scale?

Baki scans are so hard and annoying to use

Baki is easily winning this via targeting his weak points and via his movement and timings making the ninja unable to do anything whenever baki gets close enough

Above the concept of speed fr.
Hanma can probably close the distance by going invisible after taking explosions, as I've stated sandy will keep his distance albeit inevitable against baki's invisibility so im sticking to hanma winning or neutral

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

I show no bias towards sandy. I believe bombardment of explosives might take down baki as it has high range and baki has no resistance to explosion manipulation plus these explosions have unquantifably higher than 2x something AP. Sandy being massively faster because of his near blitz chain scale will guve him higher action time and combat speed meaning even tho baki is skilled, he'll react late and get caught in the explosion because he's slower significantly. If baki doesn't die/survive to a massive bombardment, What happens after might ensure hanma's win as he can make himself invisible (which ig he would as he'd take an opponent at least 2x stronger than he is a bit seriously) to then sneak up and beat sandy up. Although doesn't sandy have illusion creation? The moment he sees hanma become invisible he'll just create an illusion to figure out how baki became invisible and his battle intuition would find out why

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Jonins are good analysers of techniques especially martial arts related techniques which we know the verse of naruto has. Subsequently maybe sandy could figure out how baki becomes invisible, that's just a thought tho but im not set on it, just putting it out there.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

too bad it's unquantifiable.

Just because it's unquantifable doesn't mean it's null. Hax layers or chain scale on this site atill determine which character is stronger than another. Bigger the chain scale the stronger the character. You're ignoring the arguments we present with repetitive claims even tho it's clearly wrong. "Chain scaling doesn't matter even if your character's has a massive one and even tho mine has a smaller one he's still faster and boohoo skill gg" this is basically what im getting from what you've presented

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Toddler Gaara's Sand ~< CE Gaara's Sand << Weightless Lee ~ Base Sasuke ~ Base Sound 4 Member < CS1 S4 < CS2 S4 ~ Tired Jounin << Jounin using Shunshin.

the gap between Weightless Lee vs Gaara's sand and Jounin vs their Shunshin is massive too (the large gaps is another reason why the jounin should realistically just scale to Neji's MHS rating fully instead of just a likely rating but i digress.)

This more than covers a 1.33x speed gap and likely leads into near blitzing tiers so there is no way baki is remotely faster, at best I'd say baki's chain scale makes him maybe comparable.

if they're at all relative in speed, Nard Baki can blitz with Shunshin.

This is counted but i think baki has speed amps of his own. Ig he could still use these speed amps to open the distance between him and baki as he would know he has no way of competing in a physical battle. Couldn't sandy just explode the area continually until baki dies then? He can stay ahead, he also has body flicking which enhances speed and seemingly makes him look like he's teleporting.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Just because it's unquantifable doesn't mean it's null. Hax layers or chain scale on this site atill determine which character is stronger than another. Bigger the chain scale the stronger the character. You're ignoring the arguments we present with repetitive claims even tho it's clearly wrong. "Chain scaling doesn't matter even if your character's has a massive one and even tho mine has a smaller one he's still faster and boohoo skill gg" this is basically what im getting from what you've presented

Nah... The scaling chain of ninja baki puts him max at the mach 78 rating, baki is >> Katsumi who is at a minimum mach 78

Baki also blitzed yuijro with a technique... Which would put his amps even higher as well

he's simply faster and too skilled, that's the truth...

Literally all of your arguments haven't stated how the ninja will actually defeat baki... Baki can get close to him no matter what, even if he takes damage which is already unlikely because of the skill gap.

 

[SlendVeny]

Nah... The scaling chain of ninja baki puts him max at the mach 78 rating

Source?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Source?

what you mean source? There is none, I'm just playing along with the unfairness argument of ninja baki getting a whole new value just because he's unquantifiably faster than his own value

 

[SlendVeny]

what you mean source? There is none, I'm just playing along with the unfairness argument of ninja baki getting a whole new value just because he's unquantifiably faster than his own value

It literally isn't his value, it's a toddler's value.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

It literally isn't his value, it's a toddler's value.

too bad his value scales to the toddler's value.

 

[SlendVeny]

too bad his value scales to the toddler's value.

Right, I forgot we were allowed to just ignore upscaling.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Right, I forgot we were allowed to just ignore upscaling.

yee, the same you guys tried to do with yujiro and baki as well

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Nah... The scaling chain of ninja baki puts him max at the mach 78 rating, baki is >> Katsumi who is at a minimum mach 78

Whawwt??? First of all, aint you the one who said the value was unquantifable so its null.... Then how are you giving the chain scaling a maximum amount.... And scaling to where baki does on a minimum.... What is this bias bro??
Secondly, hanma the difference between these guys at minimum is 1.33x and we've established these guys scale multiple blitz tiers higher than each other as I've quoted above (this is ignored btw). 1.33 on it's own isn't a big speed gap and when the gap is between a literal inexperienced child and a high ranked jonin.... Also above the people who had an encounter with a faster version of the character who did the mach 58 feat..... This is blantly above a 1.33 times difference lol and you know it. 1.33x difference doesn't cover a whole chain scale of blitz tiers as the blitz amount we consider on this site is 7x especially in threads lmao, although i wont get into blitz amounts cuz that's another story.

Baki also blitzed yuijro with a technique... Which would put his amps even higher as well

Ok? That doesn't present a big chain scale and we've already established the jonin has a high chain scale above multiple transformation multipliers from the sound 4 along with a jonins own speed amps that make them FTE to the prior. The chain scale on our side is ultimately bigger and sure as hell don't cap at 1.33x lol.

he's simply faster and too skilled, that's the truth...

He's evidently not faster in this thread due to evidence we've shown but go on cuz you done ignored our whole chain scale. I won't say much about skill, I'll leave that to someone else but i do think ninja has enough akill to fight against hanma seeing as he upscales massively above the skills of weaker ranks who r skilled in their own right.

Literally all of your arguments haven't stated how the ninja will actually defeat baki

That's the point.... Of arguing wincons...... And these wincons haven't been debunked however I've comfortably countered how baki will use his skills and techniques to beat ninja boy. I see no problem with arguing with the side you represent as you've been arguing baki's side alone .

Baki can get close to him no matter what

and as I and many others said, this isn't true. One guy stated that ni ja has body flick which is a insane speed amp that basically gives the guy short distance teleportation which baki would have a hard time to keep up with. They're in a area tens of meters apart, this will make him almosy untouchable to baki unless baki uses his own speed amps. Another guy also says ninja has bunshin which is another speed amps that makes him FTE to those relative to him...... These arguments were ignored as you haven't countered them with your own share of baki's speed amps I'll presume.

even if he takes damage which is already unlikely because of the skill gap.

You still haven't attacked how he'll handle explosion manipulation when he has no resistance or counter. Im also not sure why you still bring up skill... Let me say it again; How will skill help baki against an explosion that'll cover tens of meters continuously?? What? redirect the explosion like you said earlier?? No amount of skill baki has can protect him against something he has no resistance to, that's already 2x above his physical statistics with large AOE and the ninja having hundreds of these weapons at his disposal. Im leaning to ninja boy over here as no decent argument has been developed to counter his starting move. And i sense clear bias from baki's side of arguers

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

yee, the same you guys tried to do with yujiro and baki as well

No one ignored your chain scale, we're saying it isn't as big as ours to remotely even the gap. And thats how it works on vsbw bro, chain scaling and upscaling runs the site, make a crt about it or smt

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

What? Baki ~ Yuijiro > Over the difference between 4 different ranks compared to a literal child? Cmon bro

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

What? Baki ~ Yuijiro > Over the difference between 4 different ranks compared to a literal child? Cmon bro

No one ignored your chain scale, we're saying it isn't as big as ours to remotely even the gap. And thats how it works on vsbw bro, chain scaling and upscaling runs the site, make a crt about it or smt

My guy... Baki is originally already faster, the scaling chain would max get comparable to baki's value... And since baki's value is also from a scaling chain, he'd be faster

Show me where on vsbw it's shown to work like that at all

 

[SlendVeny]

yee, the same you guys tried to do with yujiro and baki as well

Tell me when I did that. What I did was read out what we had on the profiles.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Tell me when I did that. What I did was read out what we had on the profiles.

via saying ninja baki's unquantifiable gap is better than Yuijro's unquantifiable gap even tho it's not true and you can't prove that

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Ninja baki is >> Mach 58.338403207

Baki is >> Mach 78

How the f can you argue ninja baki is faster... Then?

 

[SlendVeny]

via saying ninja baki's unquantifiable gap is better than Yuijro's unquantifiable gap even tho it's not true and you can't prove that

The difference between an untrained toddler and an elite, top-of-the-line soldier is higher than the difference between a high-level fighter and a higher-level fighter.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Baki is originally already faster, the scaling chain would max get comparable to baki's value

Let me ask you this..... Do you think being 1.33 times faster than your opponent means you can blitz them? Just a quick question.

And since baki's value is also from a scaling chain, he'd be faster

But baki's scale chain is a blitz tier between 2 characters only as you've mentioned (Yuijiro and Baki)..... It wouldn't end up being higher than a chain scale with multiple blitz tiers above a value as little as being 1.33 times slower than the opponent your against.... I don't see the issue. That's how chain scaling works. It isn't "unquantifable so null" like you've been mentioning the past hour nor is that a concept on vsbw. As an example, look at Hax Layers on the site, a person with 2 resistance layers is above someone with one although we don't know the extent or minimum resistance required.

Show me where on vsbw it's shown to work like that at all

High tier characters who upscale from mid or low tiers in their verse. Like Summer Time Rendering for example. A High tier scales unquantifably higher than 0.009 Tons and against a character that scales to 0.02 something a chain scale can be presented to even it out. Literally in almost every versus thread debate here, characters in the same tier have AP gaps between them and parties would bring forth a chain scale to even out the odds, it would be the same with unequalized speed since both characters scale within the same tier of speed but different values. Just argue a chain scale to even or surpass the former.

 

[SlendVeny]

Ninja baki is >> Mach 58.338403207

Baki is >> Mach 78

How the f can you argue ninja baki is faster... Then?

If one guy is like 4 tons and one guy can oneshot a guy who can oneshot a 3-ton guy, I'm putting my money on the second guy.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

The difference between an untrained toddler and an elite, top-of-the-line soldier is higher than the difference between a high-level fighter and a higher-level fighter.

proof?

It's also not when the high-level fighter is at minimum that speed

Both baki and yujiro are >> the rest of the casts...

Yuijro is the same one who has never been close to defeat until his son was starting to go toe to toe with him...

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

If one guy is like 4 tons and one guy can oneshot a guy who can oneshot a 3-ton guy, I'm putting my money on the second guy.

ninja baki never blitzed the value so that doesn't work.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Let me ask you this..... Do you think being 1.33 times faster than your opponent means you can blitz them? Just a quick question.

No.

But baki's scale chain is a blitz tier between 2 characters only as you've mentioned (Yuijiro and Baki)..... It wouldn't end up being higher than a chain scale with multiple blitz tiers above a value as little as being 1.33 times slower than the opponent your against.... I don't see the issue. That's how chain scaling works. It isn't "unquantifable so null" like you've been mentioning the past hour nor is that a concept on vsbw.

its null only because baki is already faster to begin with + has his own scaling chain as well

There are no blitz tier above feat for ninja baki in his profile

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

A High tier scales unquantifably higher than 0.009 Tons and against a character that scales to 0.02 something a chain scale can be presented to even it out.

yee that's what I said, it would even it out... Ninja reaching mach 78 value but since baki also has a scaling chain, it would null it since he's >> mach 78

 

[SlendVeny]

ninja baki never blitzed the value so that doesn't work.

Never said he did, that was a simplification. Obviously neither is blitzing the other, except with specific amps.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Both baki and yujiro are >> the rest of the casts...

How does the rest of the cast get intoa chain scape when yuijiro and baki are the onky ones who remotely scale to each other in strength and speed. Remember you're the one who stated both of them are massively above the cast but most of the cast isn't 7-C and HhS+ lol. That's a bad example of a chain scale.

Yuijro is the same one who has never been close to defeat until his son was starting to go toe to toe with him...

Exactly. I wonder why.....

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

ninja baki never blitzed the value so that doesn't work.

Are you seruous? we've stated why ninja baki upscales. Why do you think he'd be HHS+ in the first place? Obviously because he scales above existing characters. Plus the guy has bunshin and body flick jutsu so those on their own are blitz amps.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Exactly. I wonder why.....

because it's stated...?

He's referred to as completely different species compared to humans, not even the strongest in the world in baki are confident in fighting him or going toe to toe with him even when he's not using his full strength

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

we've stated why ninja baki upscales. Why do you think he'd be HHS+ in the first place?

Plus the guy has bunshin and body flick jutsu so those on their own are blitz amps.

baki as well... With also techniques or demon back amp

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

No.

Exactly and Ninja baki is blitz TIERZZZ above his current value. It wouldn't cap at 1.33 as that's not enough to blitz an opponent. Hence he wouldn't scale to baki at best, W trap.

its null only because baki is already faster to begin with + has his own scaling chain as well

There are no blitz tier above feat for ninja baki in his profile

the Sound 4 are actually HH+ in base with all of them getting much faster in CS1 and CS2(the form Jounin are massively above) with some of them having MHS reactions like Kido.

Shunshin is also a FTE amp from base so it's more like HHS+ < CS1 < CS2 < Jounin normally < FTE level amp(Shunshin),

He scales to Jonin that, even while tired, injured, and without chakra, scale above the CS2 Sound Four, who have 10 times the chakra of CS1, which is faster than their Base. Kidomaru, one of the Sound 4, scales to SRA Naruto, who's > Chunin Exams Naruto, who can dodge Gaara's hits, and Gaara scaled to Mach 58.338403207 as a toddler.

We've explaineD the chain..... Why are we going back over the chain when multiple people gave it.

yee that's what I said, it would even it out... Ninja reaching mach 78 value but since baki also has a scaling chain, it would null it since he's >> mach 78

..... He's not getting only 1.33 times faster with a speed blitzing chain scale and his own FTE speed amps.... He going beyond that. And higher than hanmas scaling....

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Exactly and Ninja baki is blitz TIERZZZ above his current value. It wouldn't cap at 1.33 as that's not enough to blitz an opponent. Hence he wouldn't scale to baki at best, W trap.

too bad the trap doesn't work because baki is above that value as well.

We've explaineD the chain..... Why are we going back over the chain when multiple people gave it.

Multiple people who've yet to show why ninja baki would be faster with unquantifiable gap

..... He's not getting only 1.33 times faster with a speed blitzing chain scale and his own FTE speed amps.... He going beyond that. And higher than hanmas scaling....

No. Baki has his own scaling chain and blitz amps

 

[SlendVeny]

Still neutral on this. It seems we're not going to come to an agreement on the speed thing, so let's see if we can decide this based on the other factors at hand. For instance, Grappler Baki is aptly named, considering his LS, which is quite high, but Baki from the Hidden Sand also has a very high AP.