-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Avengers: Endgame Revision (with major spoilers)
- 7,461
- 2,875
Again, the power depends of strength and/or size of the target and user.
For a human wielding it, it just deliver enough energy to destroy his body, nothing beyond that.
That is the reason for why Mark 50 doesn't have 5-A dura, even though he tanked 2 direct shots of said stone.
For a human wielding it, it just deliver enough energy to destroy his body, nothing beyond that.
That is the reason for why Mark 50 doesn't have 5-A dura, even though he tanked 2 direct shots of said stone.
- 2,667
- 1,218
But that statement was only about when it's against a target, not the user. When a normal being tries to hold the stone, they pretty much get instantly destroyed, while people with special physiology like Quill or raw physical power like Thanos and Ronan can tank it, even if briefly.
- 2,667
- 1,218
You're just repeating yourself. Thanos took some visible damage from holding the Power-Stone and Ronan could survive holding it, Zark also pointed more supporting feats for this too so it's not without context.
Edit - To make it more clear: I'm not saying the stone is High 6-B, only that to survive the energy that surges when the user holds the stone seems to require either High 6-B durability, a device that can contain said energy like the Infinity Gauntlet or Ronan's hammer or special physiology like Celestial physiology.
And before someone brings this again, this also doesn't mean Ronan is in the same league as Thanos, only on a similar enough tier that he would be able to reasonably survive holding the stone for the amount of time he did. Take Bleeding Edge / MK 85 Tony, Fat Thor and Doctor Strange, they are within the same tier, but are clearly outclassed severely by Thanos physically, but they showcase enough power to restrain him for a good amount of time, block some of his physical blows, keep up with him in a fight, and in the case of B.E Tony, even draw some blood from Thanos.
Edit - To make it more clear: I'm not saying the stone is High 6-B, only that to survive the energy that surges when the user holds the stone seems to require either High 6-B durability, a device that can contain said energy like the Infinity Gauntlet or Ronan's hammer or special physiology like Celestial physiology.
And before someone brings this again, this also doesn't mean Ronan is in the same league as Thanos, only on a similar enough tier that he would be able to reasonably survive holding the stone for the amount of time he did. Take Bleeding Edge / MK 85 Tony, Fat Thor and Doctor Strange, they are within the same tier, but are clearly outclassed severely by Thanos physically, but they showcase enough power to restrain him for a good amount of time, block some of his physical blows, keep up with him in a fight, and in the case of B.E Tony, even draw some blood from Thanos.
- 2,296
- 2,732
High 6-B Ronin seems fine since he is a God to Kree
- 2,667
- 1,218
Read my edit, and no my argument wasn't debunked in Infinity War, again, the statement about the variability is when the stone is used against a target, not about when the user tries to hold the stone, proof to this is that different people clear take different amounts of damage from holding the stone. We see that the cultists that tried to harness the Power Stone, when the collector was explaining it in GoTG, were pretty much instantly incapacitated and destroyed, while Ronan could hold for many seconds without suffering major damage, but still be in considerable pain and stressed, while Thanos could use it while just suffering some damage in the hand holding the stone, see how it's consistent with the fact that Normies (get instantly incapacitated and destroyed) <<<<< Ronan (can hold it but with considerable pain through his body) < Thanos (only visible damage around the area touching the stone).Newendigo said:
- 19,865
- 16,315
If he gets a High 6-B rating it would only be for durability as he doesn't have a AP feat (barring another CM movie with him) to justify rating him that high. I would also mention Quill and the GotG surviving but since they mentioned his Celestial ancestry I guess he could've been subject to the bulk of the energy while everyone else got run off power.
- 2,667
- 1,218
It's specifically stated in both GoTG 1 and 2 that Quill survived because of his part-celestial physiology. Him being only High 6-B in durability is fine I guess, but I don't see him not scaling at least partially to his Attack Potency, and we see with Captain Marvel that Kree have the potential to reach High 6-B Attack Potency and Ronan is likely within the same tier of power to her since they're both god-tier Kree.
- 7,461
- 2,875
Yes, it was debunked a long time ago.
No, the user and interactions are the same because is about being in contact with the energy.
You don't need High 6-B dura to survive it, just get off its energy from you before its surges enough to bypass. Both Thanos and Ronan hold it for small while, they would into cinders if the time were more longer.
No, the user and interactions are the same because is about being in contact with the energy.
You don't need High 6-B dura to survive it, just get off its energy from you before its surges enough to bypass. Both Thanos and Ronan hold it for small while, they would into cinders if the time were more longer.
- 19,865
- 16,315
Why? He doesn't fight anyone that he doesn't already stompDziga said:
and we see with Captain Marvel that Kree have the potential to reach High 6-B Attack Potency
Marvel has Kree blood, but she's also warped and changed by the FTL engine. Scaling a mutant of a half-breed to the upper tiers of and entire race with no justification is a bad idea in my view.
- 2,667
- 1,218
Yeh sure pal, whatever you believe, I see that no matter how much I responded to the same thing you'll repeat the same argument. And that last part doesn't matter in the slightest.
I guess, the problem is that there is no inconsistency with scaling his Attack Potency to his durability and we know he is far above the High 7-C's, but no by how much, that's why I proposed Possibly High 6-B, not solid High 6-B. But as I said, scaling only his durability is fine.
Edit: I finished re-watching GoTG.
The scene where Gamora explains the Power Stone she says this: "The Power Stone reacts to anything organic, the bigger the target, the bigger the power surge". And there are several things to add here: 1 - She's talking about specifically the target of the Power Stone, not the user, which is further supported by the fact that in context, she is trying to explain how dangerous Ronan with the stone is 2- She talks specifically about size of the target, not durability of the user. There is literally nothing more to argue about this point other than pure stubborn denying.
I guess, the problem is that there is no inconsistency with scaling his Attack Potency to his durability and we know he is far above the High 7-C's, but no by how much, that's why I proposed Possibly High 6-B, not solid High 6-B. But as I said, scaling only his durability is fine.
Edit: I finished re-watching GoTG.
The scene where Gamora explains the Power Stone she says this: "The Power Stone reacts to anything organic, the bigger the target, the bigger the power surge". And there are several things to add here: 1 - She's talking about specifically the target of the Power Stone, not the user, which is further supported by the fact that in context, she is trying to explain how dangerous Ronan with the stone is 2- She talks specifically about size of the target, not durability of the user. There is literally nothing more to argue about this point other than pure stubborn denying.
- 19,865
- 16,315
Possibly or just High 6-B is fine (in my view) as long as the reasoning is clear that he's scaling to Thanos rather than just the Power Stone in a vacuum.
- 2,667
- 1,218
Would look something like this:
Attack Potency: At least Large Town level, possibly Large Country level (One of the strongest of the Krees, and was even worshipped by fellow Kree. Should be superior to Kree Reapers and the likes of Vin-Tak. Stomped Drax with ease, stomped all The Guardians of The Galaxy at the same time without using the Orb at his full power. Should scale to his durability, but has not displayed feats for that).
Durability: Large Country level (Survived holding the Power Stone for a considerable amount of time, albeit with great pain, thus, his durability shouldn't be leagues far from Thanos, who took some minor damage from holding the stone. Took hits from Drax with ease. Survived the destruction of the Dark Aster (3 miles long) which Groot barely survived with shields).
Does anybody have any more objections about this?
Attack Potency: At least Large Town level, possibly Large Country level (One of the strongest of the Krees, and was even worshipped by fellow Kree. Should be superior to Kree Reapers and the likes of Vin-Tak. Stomped Drax with ease, stomped all The Guardians of The Galaxy at the same time without using the Orb at his full power. Should scale to his durability, but has not displayed feats for that).
Durability: Large Country level (Survived holding the Power Stone for a considerable amount of time, albeit with great pain, thus, his durability shouldn't be leagues far from Thanos, who took some minor damage from holding the stone. Took hits from Drax with ease. Survived the destruction of the Dark Aster (3 miles long) which Groot barely survived with shields).
Does anybody have any more objections about this?
- 7,461
- 2,875
Drop the condecendecy dude, that is just asking for trouble, you are the one that have been repeating the same flawed argument that had been disscused a year ago.
And no inconsistency? What about the hammer that got blown by a High 7-C weapon?
The stone doesn't have an specified target, is anything that comes in direct contact with it, that is the reason for why it can kill is own user.
And no inconsistency? What about the hammer that got blown by a High 7-C weapon?
The stone doesn't have an specified target, is anything that comes in direct contact with it, that is the reason for why it can kill is own user.
- 15,636
- 5,391
Why is surviving holding the power stone grounds for scaling to Thanos? Thanos didn't even hold on to it longer than that one servant girl before he had to put it back in the he gauntlet. Ronan was practically killing himself with it before he put it in his hammer.
The only people who can use it without issue are the Celestials, one of whom is a literal living planet.
The only people who can use it without issue are the Celestials, one of whom is a literal living planet.
- 11,098
- 4,321
- Thread starter
- #339
I disagree with High 6-B Ronan too
- 15,636
- 5,391
I also disagree with High 7-C base Ronan.
Where does he ever scale to other High 7-C chracters? Simply because he's strong among the Kree doens't mean he scales to specific feats or "should" scale to specific feat.
Stomping Tier 9s certainly isn't support for it.
Where does he ever scale to other High 7-C chracters? Simply because he's strong among the Kree doens't mean he scales to specific feats or "should" scale to specific feat.
Stomping Tier 9s certainly isn't support for it.
- 15,636
- 5,391
Looking at the actual scene, Ronin legit can't hold the stone without a conduit. It's clearly killing him the same way it did the Collector's servant. Heck, he only holds it for a little more time.
Also Ronin was soloing the Guardians while empowered by the stone so I fail to see how that's even on his base AP.
Also Ronin was soloing the Guardians while empowered by the stone so I fail to see how that's even on his base AP.
- 19,865
- 16,315
Drax is now 8-C rather than 9-A for reference. Still doesn't support Tier 7 Ronan though.
- 11,098
- 4,321
- Thread starter
- #344
Ronan is High 7-C since he is one of the strongest Kree and should be superior to a regular Kree reaper.
- 15,636
- 5,391
Could you source him being "one of the strongest Kree" and "superior to a Kree reaper"?Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Also aren't the reapers from the TV series, which we don't typically scale feats to and fro?
And what makes the reapers High 7-C?
- 11,098
- 4,321
- Thread starter
- #346
I remember he was said to be one of the strongest Kree, even worshipped by some other Kree.
Vin-Tak fought Sif.
Vin-Tak fought Sif.
- 15,636
- 5,391
I get that, but I'd personally like a link for confirmation. I'll try finding it in the Gaurdians script.
Alright, could you link the script/scene where that happened?
Alright, could you link the script/scene where that happened?
- 11,098
- 4,321
- Thread starter
- #348
Season 2 Episode 12.
- 11,098
- 4,321
- Thread starter
- #350
Cap's shield and multiple profiles need to be created
- 2,667
- 1,218
Cap's shield and vibranium objects in general are extremely inconsistent. I'm fine with either staying as it's or giving High 6-B for end-game Cap's shield since Tony had plenty of time for upgrading it in the 5 year time-skip. The real discussion is: How powerful is America's Ass?
- 15,436
- 7,856
Captain America not obliterating Thanos instantly by ramming him with his ass is clearly Plot Induced Stupidity.
- 19,865
- 16,315
I say either chalk the shield up to being inconsistent or say that Tonry upgraded it after Homecoming.
- 1,421
- 84
I think the shield should be kept the same. How exactly was it upgraded? Anything that proves it's superior to anything from Wakanda?
- 7,165
- 1,066
Can we give Soul Stone Resurrection Negation? Since BW couldn't be revived because of the rules of gaining Soul Stone. And if Infinity Gauntlet and in turn Thanos scales.
- 21,354
- 2,971
It seems more like that's just the way the universe works rather than something the Soul Stone is actively doing.
Similar threads
