Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,169
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Endurance and Stamina are basically the same thingAs well as leagues superior endurance and Intelligence
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Endurance and Stamina are basically the same thingAs well as leagues superior endurance and Intelligence
I wouldn't say leagues superior endurance, but yeah.As well as leagues superior endurance and Intelligence
sooo what advantages does Kirumi have.
no I read it, just wanted a shorter one of her advantages.You just finna ignore the essay I made discussing the advantages of both opponents?
Well in this wiki yeahEndurance and Stamina are basically the same thing
Turns out I can't make a tier list because in order to login into my TierMaker account, I need to login into my Twitter account.I kinda feel like making a WWE matchup tier list where I rank a portion of the matchups we've done for the verse from worst to best.
How long until SamanPatou shows up and says it’s a stomp because WWE characters are realistic and DRV characters aren’t
Tbf the weapon argument holds a lot more validity against Top Tiers than God TiersDon't forget the weapon argument...
Before we found more skill/IR feats for the verse, the weapon argument would've been valid.Tbf the weapon argument holds a lot more validity against Top Tiers than God Tiers
That’s grace, but I’ve still got a small handful of reservations
Maki solos WWE via having guns.Pretty sure Kirumi is the strongest Danganronpa (non-Junko) 9-B, so don't see Danganronpa ever beating WWE lel (Maybe Ryoma has a chance?)
Ryoma’s monstrous range advantage totally ***** over most wrestlers(Maybe Ryoma has a chance?)
Maki solos WWE via having guns.
Undertaker has the best chances of winning, and maybe Bray Wyatt.Ryoma’s monstrous range advantage totally ***** over most wrestlers
Not game changing, but could be noted just in case anyways. Finishers are always an important issue though, and Theory having 3 does kinda make him trickier than most, at least in the context of a vs battle.Kirumi upscales from 3.68 MJ, while Theory is 2.84 MJ. A roughly 1.3x AP advantage. Nothing game changing, though Kirumi does upscale from her AP value, though Theory can negate that AP disadvantage with his finishers, which he has 3 of.
Yeah Kirumi gets her ass kicked by Theory in the grappling game, it’s a big strength for him.Theory is Peak Human. Kirumi is Athletic Human. Don't really need to say much other than this will be very detrimental for Kirumi to try and grapple with...a wrestler who has many years of experience in grappling/wrestling. For what it's worth, Kirumi can lift Theory's body weight, so maybe that could help her here.
Kirumi can certainly keep up thanks to her feats skill wise, but Theory most definitely holds the CQC advantage here by a fair distance thanks to a combination of finishers, skill and LSKirumi is surprisingly a lot more skilled than I initially thought. Though I still Theory holds the advantage here. Not only does he have actual on screen feats (which most of the Dangan verse lacks), but said on screen feats are more impressive than the skill feats Kirumi has demonstrated. Far from a skill stomp, but Theory does hold the edge in overall CQC. I will say that Theory's experience could be a detriment here, which I will explain a bit later.
The wooden pole (if we’re giving it to her) is a game-changer, but I’ll get more into that laterKirumi holds a clear advantage here, having extended melee range with her Wooden Pole, and apparently dozens of meters with her guns(?). I'm wary about her guns, but since it's not listed on her standard equipment section, I think it's fine to restrict them and let her keep her Wooden Pole.
It’s LEAGUES above what Theory has shown. Kirumi’s execution is one of the most brutal displays of willpower and endurance in all of DRV. I would take getting a broken jaw and getting hit by steel chairs and kendo sticks SO much quicker than climbing up a rope covered in thorns while getting lacerations all over my body from circular saws. The two aren’t comparable in the slightestTheory can last in a fight for extended amounts of time while taking shots from foreign objects like steel chairs, steel steps, and kendo sticks, which all leave many welts and bruises all over the wrestlers body. He can also fight through injuries such as broken fingers and a swollen/broken jaw. This is all very impressive, but I think Kirumi has him beat (though it's not by much). Being sliced/lacerated multiple times by circular saws while receiving piercing damage on her hands is a bit more impressive than what Theory has shown.
would be nice if someone temporarily cancelled their vote to not put my arguments on a timer but eh
His ATL in specific is performed very quickly, which doesn't leave Kirumi much, if any time to counter, especially against someone who has higher LS.Not game changing, but could be noted just in case anyways. Finishers are always an important issue though, and Theory having 3 does kinda make him trickier than most, at least in the context of a vs battle.
Which is something Theory heavily utilizes in his matches, so it'll be extremely detrimental for Kirumi to do this.Yeah Kirumi gets her ass kicked by Theory in the grappling game, it’s a big strength for him.
I think I already know what you're going to say...The wooden pole (if we’re giving it to her) is a game-changer, but I’ll get more into that later
Yeah, no. Trying to get the jump on Theory is a tough task already because the dude is already more skilled, and he has IR on top of that. Also, I'd argue that the Top Tiers of today are more skilled than the God Tiers of yesterday. Hell, you even argued in the Finn vs Tsukasa thread that Finn was more skilled than the Jericho that faced Tsukasa now that we gained more skill feats for the verse. Not only does Theory scale far above Axiom, but he's also able to consistently hit the likes of Dexter Lumis, whose "Sixth Sense" helps him fight while blindfolded. Kirumi has never dealt with someone on this level of skill before. If we were using the Theory before those skill feats were found, than I would 100% concede to your argument, but with all of these new skill feats, I'd argue that using weapons on Top Tiers is a lot easier said than done. Theory's Instinctive Reactions already make it a tough challenge, but if you also consider the wrestlers he scales above and compares to, it makes it a lot tougher for people with weapons to hit the Top Tiers of WWE.To put it simply, Kirumi’s best shot at victory is getting the jump on Theory, or just outright halting him altogether, through her social influencing. Range keeps Theory mostly at bay (WWE vs Weapons has been discussed many times before, but usually with God Tiers of skill such as Jericho. The verse has gathered skill feats since the likes of Jericho vs Tsukasa, but I’m not convinced they’re enough in the specific scenario of a weapon to say the Top Tiers of today are more skilled than the God Tiers of yesterday, especially for someone like Theory who lacks the experience in this field on account of his youth.)
Vice versa for Theory. A wooden pole is basically a more thick version of a kendo stick, which is nothing out of the ordinary for the WWE verse, who takes hits from steel on many occasions. Kirumi has nothing that does significantly more damage than her normal moves, unlike Theory. And while you can make an argument that Kirumi can fight through getting hit with one of Theory's finishers, she's still going to be severely weakened. Keep in mind that the bottom of the barrel of the WWE verse managed to cause great harm to one of the most skilled/powerful in the verse.while Endurance ensures if Theory does tag her she can afford it a few times, even if he resorts to a finisher.
Believe it or not, this is actually Kirumi's best win con imo. Theory is still a rookie, and he does make many rookie mistakes, and that does make him fairly naive. Most of Theory's SL revolves around taunting the opponent, or finding many different methods in getting in the opponents head to rile them up or throw them off their game. I'm not too familiar with Kirumi, but afaik, she doesn't resist SL, nor has any showings of having a strong will to resist getting manipulated. So Theory can use his SL to gain an advantage, but admittedly, Kirumi's SL is better. I will like to say that even if Theory loses any semblance of fighting skill, he still has his IR, which is not skill whatsoever. It's just a very good supporting ability. This is all assuming that Kirumi can figure that she has to SL Theory in order to win.That allows her to abuse her social influencing, which is well above Theory’s, and manipulate him into really whatever she needs to win. Docile and unsuspecting, subjected to such blinding range he loses any semblance of fighting skill, she could feasibly manipulate Theory as she pleases with ample opportunities to do so, if she figures out she can do such a thing in time.
Quite literally all of these options, except hitting a finisher early, are all extremely viable ways Theory can take this. Most WWE wrestlers prefer a CQC fight anyway, and don't really rely on weapons, so I wouldn't consider it OOC for Theory to disarm Kirumi to make it a fair 1v1 match. This is something Theory can quite easily do thanks to his LS advantage. Theory can obviously dodge the attack as well. Hell, Theory can even use the weapon himself. He has Weapon Mastery after all, and a Wooden Pole isn't anything outlandish for the WWE verse as well.Theory could lock her in CQC and not give her options to escape, he could disarm her and remove the effectiveness of her best win-con, or he could, albeit on an extremely unlikely occasion, hit her with a finisher early, and shift momentum massively in his favour.
I also forgot to mention that this fight is taking place in Theory's home turf (WWE ring), so Theory already has the immediate advantage in the fight, as his Skill, LS, Experience, and IR will all come into play here. Kirumi has no experience fighting in a wrestling ring, while Theory knows it like the back of his hand. This also means that Theory's versatile moveset will come into play as well. Kirumi will basically have to be dealing with a different strike, grapple, and even occasionally an aerial/athletic moves throughout the entire fight, while Theory doesn't really need to be wary of what Kirumi can do, as she has no real moveset. She's obviously very skilled, but Theory's versatility will come into play here.If Kirumi gets time to rationalise her strategy and find the best course of action to take Theory down, she can do it with relative ease imo. But she has to survive that initial encounter where her only saving grace is her mildly superior AP and her endurance advantage, as well as range. If Theory gets her in CQC early on he can swing it his way, fail and he probably pays the price.
Ok before I read that cancel your vote
NODamn ngl I'm kinda tired. I might just fall asleep and let this thread die.
Sleeping is very important indeed
Agreed, but she’s not totally outclassed in the skill department, and you yourself admitted it’ll take more than one finisher to put her downHis ATL in specific is performed very quickly, which doesn't leave Kirumi much, if any time to counter, especially against someone who has higher LS.
Which is something Theory heavily utilizes in his matches, so it'll be extremely detrimental for Kirumi to do this.
You know very well yourself from a few WWE threadsYeah, no. Trying to get the jump on Theory is a tough task already because the dude is already more skilled, and he has IR on top of that.
I think I’ve been fairly vocal in my opinion that Finn outclasses his fellow Top Tiers in skill because of his ability to compete amongst them (and God Tiers) despite his size. Finn has always been a God Tier skilled character stuck inside a Top Tier Character physically for meHell, you even argued in the Finn vs Tsukasa thread that Finn was more skilled than the Jericho that faced Tsukasa now that we gained more skill feats for the verse.
How much. How much money to never hear this mf mentioned in a thread againNot only does Theory scale far above Axiom
That’s fair but technically applies to CQC. Dealing with weapons is a whole other skillset that Theory lacks experience in when compared to the average WWE Wrestlerbut he's also able to consistently hit the likes of Dexter Lumis, whose "Sixth Sense" helps him fight while blindfolded
Not... totally how it works. It still holds a 1.3x AP advantage, which is semi-substantial, though of course Theory does have good endurance, I’m not denying thatVice versa for Theory. A wooden pole is basically a more thick version of a kendo stick, which is nothing out of the ordinary for the WWE verse, who takes hits from steel on many occasions.
I haven’t actually played V3, so my memory wouldn’t be mega-reliable either. You’d have to ask @Adem_Warlock69I'm not too familiar with Kirumi, but afaik, she doesn't resist SL, nor has any showings of having a strong will to resist getting manipulated
She will likely figure this out by the end of her first encounter. She’s smart enough to recognise CQC will only lead to a loss, and work her way around her very much usable advantages from thereThis is all assuming that Kirumi can figure that she has to SL Theory in order to win.
Yeah IR alone Theory is getting his ass whooped nglI will like to say that even if Theory loses any semblance of fighting skill, he still has his IR
I mean, she is very intelligent, it’s a reasonable enough assumptionHow would Tojo know how good he is at grappling? Because he's wearing boxers like a wrestler?
Bit of an overstatement if we’re being real. People need to stop pretending LS Advantage = Free Win-Con, when in reality Kirumi has the skills and endurance to deal with getting grappled occasionally, even if it is a blind spot for her in this matchKirumi gets grabbed ONCE and it's over
Because she’s smart enough to know when she’s beat in CQC, and Social Influencing is her next best optionI'm also not seeing how it's in character for Kirumi to use SI in a fight over just actually subduing her target.