Austin Theory (WWE) vs Vin Jin (Lookism)

[azontr]

Has Theory ever had his balls grabbed tho

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Has Theory ever had his balls grabbed tho

Nope.

 

[azontr]

Sounds like it's gonna hurt then

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Sounds like it's gonna hurt then

Why wouldn't it hurt lol.

As funny as this scenario is, what's stopping Theory from getting out of harms way?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I'm not sure what Superhuman LS scales to...

Superhuman LS is 545.2 KG iirc, so Vin has a roughly 2.3x LS advantage.

 

[ElajRuengies]

Sounds like it's gonna hurt then

It's all fun and games until Theory's technique mimicry kicks in and pulls a nut grabber in return, and so it's just two guys grabbing each other's nuts on the floor No Homo tho

Why wouldn't it hurt lol.

As funny as this scenario is, what's stopping Theory from getting out of harms way?

Oh yeah that- that's probably the more likely outcome...

 

[DivineAura44]

Why wouldn't it hurt lol.

As funny as this scenario is, what's stopping Theory from getting out of harms way?

Theory would unfortunately get the nut grabber off first because Vin Jin's cocc is massive

 

[RandomGuy2345]

It's all fun and games until Theory's technique mimicry makes him pull a nut grabber in return, and so it's just two guys grabbing each other's nuts on the floor No Homo tho

I didn't even think of this lol.

But yes. Theory can 100% copy something as simple as a nut grab.

Theory would unfortunately get the nut grabber off first because Vin Jin's cocc is massive

I was about to say something gay, but then I realized that I'd be one of the victims of az syndrome.

 

[azontr]

Theory may be able to copy the nut grabber but if he gets caught he won't survive, most definitely

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Theory may be able to copy the nut grabber but if he gets caught he won't survive, most definitely

Unironically speaking, what happened to the dude who got nut grabbed?

 

[DivineAura44]

Dawg imagine someone with class 10 LS grabbing your balls

 

[azontr]

Unironically speaking, what happened to the dude who got nut grabbed?

Idk I don't read Lookism lel

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Dawg imagine someone with class 10 LS grabbing your balls

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Unironically speaking, what happened to the dude who got nut grabbed?

It's on the chapter of the link. Anyway guy got repeatedly grabbed at the collar broke and had his limbs and ribs broken by sheer LS.

That's the actual finishing move here lol.


The main issue with gtfoing away is that then Theory can't reach Vin. Vin is actually more Reactive where if you attack him he can take a hit and stop a wrestlers tackle or mount you. He can even immediately mount you and break your knee caps ez pz. So uh, hes gonna spam that LS Advantage and break some bones fast lol. Not his first move if it's not dark but if he sees Austin getting stronger he'd definitely do it


But yeah honestly Kazuma (yes that's his name) went from stomping Vin Jin to getting stomped by him the moment he performed Kudo.

 

[ElajRuengies]

Dawg imagine someone with class 10 LS grabbing your balls

Wrong Key again

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Dawg imagine someone with class 10 LS grabbing your balls

Dw Kazuma can regenerate bones within a month. He can do the same probz ez pz

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Not his first move if it's not dark but if he sees Austin getting stronger he'd definitely do it

Austin doesn't get stronger. He just gets more skilled as the fight goes.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Austin doesn't get stronger. He just gets more skilled as the fight goes.

Oh then nvm, well still if the enemy is potent enough against Vin he's gonna go for Kudo

 

[DivineAura44]

Wrong Key again

Ik im just saying JC

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Also, I'm still waiting for some solid skill feats for Vin.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Also, I'm still waiting for some solid skill feats for Vin.

On comp now gimme a sec

 

[ElajRuengies]

.

-Unrelated but what are your thoughts on this? (Thoughts in Jungle Juice thread)

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Exhibit A - Ivan Park Wrestling Experience

Can easily dodge tackles and many moves from a wrestler, knowing how to stop it. Also knows how to flip you the **** up, or to escape grapples. Oh and he can break your legs. He fractured the guy's legs while going easy too. Chapters listed

Exhibit B - Vasco Shows how good he can move from position and mid attacks in grapples. Same chapter also has him fight people in his hometown in these rings of glass while wearing chains.

Can move from position to position and frequently attacks mid grapple.

Exhibit C + D - Kazuma from Konosuba, Executive Level/Crew Head Level. All crew heads are masters and they are easily above the Bicheon Gang's main fighting force, which are soldiers trained when they were kids after nearly burning to death.

Also Akira, who's the Middleweight champion of Japan who easily shat on almost every MMA fighter he faced. This includes Veterans (whom he blitzed there). Vin jin absolutely shat on him without even using Kudo. Akira <<<< Vin Jin < Kazuma <<< Vin Jin with Kudo. Executive level members casually upscale from this level. There's also Executive level members who are trained by the best martial artist (I'm assuming China since to assume world is big) protecting a Billionaire's daughter.

Overall he's pretty skilled. Not a great wrestler as Akira said, great at breaking everything else on your body though

Edit - Everytime I have to make imgur links for debate I'm gonna add it to their profiles

Edit edit - Also yeah Vin Jin was having an existential crisis while he is about to be stabbed. His reactions are pretty high up

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Okay.

Both of these guys seem comparable in terms of skill.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Forgot to add this for Ivan Park I missed it whoops.

Okay.

Both of these guys seem comparable in terms of skill.

I feel like Vin Jin wins out actually lol, but his second key might be closer since he can't capitalize as well on certain things. Either way yeah.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I feel like Vin Jin wins out actually lol, but his second key might be closer since he can't capitalize as well on certain things. Either way yeah.

Either way it's a tie because "Theory adapts lol".

 

[azontr]

Reading through that W skill list for Vin, I personally think Austin loses out here. Vin's displayed far more variety and versatility in grappling than I've ever seen Austin display, and has a LS advantage to utilize this skill. And it's IC for him to abuse such an advantage.

I personally am now leaning towards Vin.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Reading through that W skill list for Vin, I personally think Austin loses out here. Vin's displayed far more variety and versatility in grappling than I've ever seen Austin display,

Theory adapts.

and has a LS advantage to utilize this skill. And it's IC for him to abuse such an advantage.

Theory has fought and defeated people with far greater LS than Vin.

 

[azontr]

Theory adapts.

That's not an argument. You'd have to prove he can adapt against someone whose displayed far, far, FAR more skill than he's ever faced in terms of sheer grappling versatility.

Theory has fought and defeated people with far greater LS than Vin.

Doesn't mean anything when Theory can't escape Vin's holds due to lower LS and a grappling skill disadvantage.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Either way it's a tie because "Theory adapts lol".

That's a good move.

Though might be difficult if bones are breaking ;; Adapting usually works if your opponent doesn't immediately cripple you.

 

[azontr]

Yeah, that's the problem here.

Theory can "adapt" all he wants, but that doesn't stop someone with superior grappling skill and LS than he has from trapping him in a Scissor Takedown or literally just crushing his ribs with his bare hands.

 

[yoloninja3000]

That's a good move.

Though might be difficult if bones are breaking ;; Adapting usually works if your opponent doesn't immediately cripple you.

Vin also should be above the two national Korean wrestling champions from cheonliang
Edit: one national and one who is the champion of cheonliang

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Vin also should be above the two national Korean wrestling champions from cheonliang

Oh yeah forgot about those two. They haven't shown as much feats yet so I forgot about them. Really need to get that Cheonliang arc soon since it might have something supernatural.

To think Mary scales to him

 

[DivineAura44]

Theory is one of the most slithery characters in the verse though. We aren't asking Theory to completely skillfuxk Vin Jin who has higher grappling. He just needs to get one opening and use his finisher, it's not like Vin Jin isn't one of the most cocky mfs in existence. Although Vin Jin might just slide out like he did against Ivan. Can I please ask why tf we put Vin Jin against a grappler despite his 2 fights which show off his skill the most upto that point being against grapplers? Theory was the underdog from the start.

 

[azontr]

I can agree with that, but to even deem whether or not he COULD get one of those potential openings, I need to know how high his grappling skills go. How "slithery" is he, basically.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

That's not an argument. You'd have to prove he can adapt against someone whose displayed far, far, FAR more skill than he's ever faced in terms of sheer grappling versatility.

Finna point this out again:

Theory also has Accelerated Development. He Went from having severe skill disadvantages against Johnny Gargano to the point where he was called "predictable" to slowly finding ways to adapt throughout the fight, even finding ways to quickly counter moves that originally caught him off guard. The commentary team states that Theory was "learning on the go" throughout the match. Johnny Gargano's fighting style revolves around combining British Chain Wrestling, Lucha Libre, and Puroresu into a fighting style he likes to call "Lucharesu".

Gargano has 17+ years of experience, and has used this style of fighting ever since he started. So not only did Theory have a severe skill/experience disadvantage, he also had a severe grappling disadvantage, and he went from being "predictable" to fighting on par with Gargano in a few minutes.

Theory was able to defeat Finn Balor for the United States Championship, becoming the youngest US Champion in WWE history.

Finn Balor defeated Pete Dunne, who's fighting style revolves around brawling, stiff strikes, submission grappling, and bending of his opponents fingers (Small Joint Manipulation), which will leave someone extremely handicapped in a fight, especially since wrestling is all about striking, grappling and holding, and you can't do that without functioning fingers.

Theory has beaten people who have defeated someone that's a master in Small Joint Manipulation (he has 16+ years of experience as a pro wrestler).

Doesn't mean anything when Theory can't escape Vin's holds due to lower LS and a grappling skill disadvantage.

It actually means a lot more than you think.

Wrestlers have shown to wear down people with far superior LS (This is Theory being able to put a headlock on someone with Class 25 LS), and they have even shown the ability to break out of holds from people with superior LS.

Here's an example of a Peak Human LS wrestler breaking out of a hold from a Class 25 LS wrestler. Here is another example (though this one seemed to be out of sheer will).

 

[azontr]

Gargano has 17+ years of experience, and has used this style of fighting ever since he started. So not only did Theory have a severe skill/experience disadvantage, he also had a severe grappling disadvantage, and he went from being "predictable" to fighting on par with Gargano in a few minutes.

I know how Theory's Accelerated Development works. You don't need to explain it to me, I was in the CRT where it was added and I was the one you brought up the ability to in DMs. But there are a few holes in this logic that I find.

One, skill isn't dictated strictly by experience. So Gargano could be as experienced as he wants, but if he hasn't shown any real technicality on Vin's level, it'd be useless.

Two, even if Gargano did incorporate several wrestling styles into his own unique style, I'd need to see how precise he is with it, because simply saying he uses several styles but not showing any real technicality on the level of Vin's grappling doesn't mean anything.

These are mere statements as opposed to concrete, real wrestling feats.

It actually means a lot more than you think.

Wrestlers have shown to wear down people with far superior LS (This is Theory being able to put a headlock on someone with Class 25 LS), and they have even shown the ability to break out of holds from people with superior LS.

Here's an example of a Peak Human LS wrestler breaking out of a hold from a Class 25 LS wrestler. Here is another example (though this one seemed to be out of sheer will).

Those people don't necessarily possess the grappling skill or reactions Vin does, so irrelevant.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

It actually means a lot more than you think.

Wrestlers have shown to wear down people with far superior LS (This is Theory being able to put a headlock on someone with Class 25 LS), and they have even shown the ability to break out of holds from people with superior LS.

Here's an example of a Peak Human LS wrestler breaking out of a hold from a Class 25 LS wrestler. Here is another example (though this one seemed to be out of sheer will).

I'd like to clarify that this does not, and I repeat not mean that Theory (along with many others) should have Class 5 to Class 25 LS. He just has enough skill/experience as a wrestler to somewhat circumvent this disadvantage.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

17+

That's good. It takes a few minutes though it seems. And tbh, grab and break is such a simple fighting style that the issue is more how the heck do you counter that? Theory's gonna get hurt. Also you can be 17 years knowledgeable on something but still suck at it. Not saying that guy sucks, I'm just saying it might not be as good as someone immensely talented. PTJ verse happens to have a lot of those with people making up 3 years of not fighting within a month

Small joint manipulation

That's good. Vin Jin though deals with bone breaking and some plus, and is also more ruthless. Unlike WWE he's going to go straight for breaking something big and not make you tap out.

Class 25

The issue still remains that Vin would not play by the rules and would break something immediately. Not have to force someone to tap out. Even if he tries to escape, Vin is going to keep mounting and grappling much like he did with Vasco. He won't be able to get away at all.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Theory is one of the most slithery characters in the verse though

Tbh I have no idea what you mean by this myself lol.

We aren't asking Theory to completely skillfuxk Vin Jin who has higher grappling. He just needs to get one opening and use his finisher, it's not like Vin Jin isn't one of the most cocky mfs in existence.

Then I can potentially make an argument that Theory's SI can play a factor here. He's pretty damn good at getting in his opponent's heads, which can lead to them doing something reckless.

Although Vin Jin might just slide out like he did against Ivan.

Theory's ATL is performed very quickly, so even a slight opening can help Theory here.