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Arifureta Shokugyou de Sekai Saikyou Discussion Thread 2

Statistics reduction for Hajime:
She said. Furthermore, it seemed from the start she had intended to cross swords with Shizuku, so she had intentionally brought dougi and protectors in Shizuku’s size beforehand.

Even Shizuku got motivated after seeing Fudou going that far for her. It was even more so after Hajime gave her a restrain in the form of artifact that he claimed to be able to allow her 「You can get serious even if you can’t go full power with this」.

The result of the bout was……it went without saying
. ch484
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He can already do it(EOMS)

and Powernull:
The audiences all had various emotions that they were feeling, but they were all clearly holding the priest in contempt without exception.

There were handcuffs shackling the hands of these people.

Those weren’t normal handcuffs. They were artifacts that completely blocked the usage of power regardless whether they used magic power or willpower.

Yes, the people attending the sermon today was the “awakened”. ch 485
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I'm just wondering if lowering the stats of a Tier 5 character into that of a normal human count as a better feat, or if he could use "core seal" to weaken someone powers and resistance?
 
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(by Everything12)
Before the scaling itself there is certain information that need to first be established:

Divine Edict is really powerful spirit magic with a mechanic that make it stronger when the user uses their full name[1] compared with the shortened version of their name, this difference in power is show to be significant enough [2] to overcome people able to resist the version with the shortened name, so Shortened Divine Edict < Full Divine Edict.

Between ancient magic exist evolution magic which significantly increase the power of things multiplying their strength[3], specifically weak evolution magic[4] double the potency[5] of something[6], normal evolution magic[7] that anyone can use[8] triple[9] the power[10] of things[2], and can increase[11] it fivefold[12], can increase the level of skills several times[13][14] multiplying their effects[15], evolution magic ability[7] affect[16] anything[2] and[17] everything[4] without distinction[6] because of its control[12] of information[18]. Does this include feats of things that would resist? So based on that Normal Divine Edict < Evolved Divine Edict.

So based on that previous information the scaling for Divine Edict go like this:

Limit Break Users/Kouki Resistance (Limit Break do damage to the soul, so those that can use Limit Break will get their soul permanently damaged if their soul isn't strong enough[19]. Kouki is someone able to use Limit Break without problem) < Kouki Overload Resistance (Overload is the superior version of Limit Break that put a greater burden in the user[20]) < Eri/Apostles Dark Magic (Is an inferior version[21] of spirit magic, and people who can resist it[22] can't resist[23] spirit magic[24]. Additionally she could affect with her magic Kouki soul) Getting somewhere here < Normal Spirit Magic (spirit magic resist[25] dark magic) < Eddy Divine Edict (Paladins special magic[23] is superior[26] to other Atavists, and Divine Edict is a specially powerful[1] spirit magic that can affect[12] people who resist spirit magic[27]) Looks promosing < Eddy Maker Divine Edict < Apostleified Eddy Divine Edict (apostleification boost the strength of the user magic[12] [likely with evolution magic since it's done by Ehit himself] and the replicas of holy artifacts that they wield futher strengthen their magic) < Apostleified Eddy Maker Divine Edict[12] < Laus Barn Spirit Magic (Laus, even in a half dead state, can supress[26] the spirit magic of those apostleified Relevance?) < Zero Alva Divine Edict (Is needed the combined effort[25] of most Liberators to face him) < Zero Alvaheit Divine Edict < Zero Alva Divine Edict with Evolution Magic < Zero Alvaheit Divine Edict with Evolution Magic < Current Alva Divine Edict (Because of the technique that turn faith in power his current power is conceptually far above[28][29] than his Zero version Adding Conceptual doesnt change anything) < Current Alvaheit Divine Edict < Current Alva Divine Edict with Evolution Magic < Current Alvaheit Divine Edict with Evolution Magic < Zero Ehit Divine Edict (Ehit is conceptually superior to Alva and his Divine Edict[30] can't be resisted by those that resist Alvaheit Divine Edict) < Zero Ehitorujue Divine Edict < Zero Ehit Divine Edict with Evolution Magic < Vol 6 Laus Barn Spirit Magic (By giving his all he was able to resist[12] Ehit Divine Edict) < Zero Ehitorujue Divine Edict with Evolution Magic < Current Ehit Divine Edict < Current Ehitorujue Divine Edict < Current Ehit Divine Edict with Evolution Magic < Current Ehitorujue Divine Edict with Evolution Magic < Soul Shell (Resist[31] Ehitorujue Divine Edict) < Yue Divine Edict (Is far above[32] Ehitorujue and can affect those that resist[33] Ehitorujue Divine Edict and with Soul Shell) < Post-Shadow Dragon Arc Yue Divine Edict (Her existence is conceptually stronger[34] than before do to dragon gods conception, and the more time pass the stronger her existence will become because of the conception)
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About 20+ layers left.
 
Community_Gamer said:
Would you consider dark magic to be spirit magic or dark magic? Better yet, is dark magic soul manipulation if not then you have your answer.
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Well it specialize in the same domain: perception, thoughts, memory, emotion, soul. Check Eri's profile.

And magic in general can interfere with the soul and apparitions, like when Yue used her elemental dragons on the Apparitions .

I'm asking if we can use magic and resistance stat for layers?

The apostles were also stated to be immune to elemental magic because of their high stat, but that's only if the caster is weak compared to them.
 
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EL_xWatcher1234x said:
Well it specialize in the same domain: perception, thoughts, memory, emotion, soul. Check Eri's profile.
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Hmm this isn't strictly true.
Dark magic generally influenced the target's thoughts and perception. In combat, its main purpose was to debuff enemies. He took to it like a fish to water, and he quickly grew proficient at creating illusions to disorient foes, interfering with their ability to cast magic, and even making them hurt themselves in confusion.
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I agree with general Dark magic essentially being Mind Manipulation and Eri can has greater control and efficiency to where she's nearly manipulating the soul. But I don't think she's ever explicitly doing so.
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
And magic in general can interfere with the soul and apparitions, like when Yue used her elemental dragons on the Apparitions .
Click to expand...
Whats the context? Is her magic ampped by spirit magic for example?
 
Community_Gamer said:
I agree with general Dark magic essentially being Mind Manipulation and Eri can has greater control and efficiency to where she's nearly manipulating the soul. But I don't think she's ever explicitly doing so.
Click to expand...
Maybe I should check her fight in Ehit's dimension.
Community_Gamer said:
Whats the context? Is her magic ampped by spirit magic for example?
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No, but she used info magic, and her burning demons soul was done using soul magic.
――Combined attack magic of gravity – metamorphosis – sublimation – lightning element Subordinate Demonic Familiar – Ultimate Lightning Dragon

It was a half monster giant lightning dragon made from lightning that was capable of autonomous action.

With a huge body that wasn’t at all inferior compared to a dragon god, it bit at the enemy’s neck, gouged, and poured lightning attack into its body while neutralizing its gravity control for flying. Like that both dragons fell nonstop toward the ground like a lightning strike. ch417
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The only one who could interfere with the soul using elemental magic is Eri.

Aiko magic stat is what protected her from the Apostle brainwashing, although her mana stat was less than the apostles. Does this help proving it?
 
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How does Ehit watch over Tortus from the holy sancutary(forgot its name)?

Didn't pay much attention to it before, but light magic can create hard light constructs, that's where, Ehit light apostles, Kouki's giant and light dragon, and barrier creation comes from. Does Kouki using it to destroy someone on a molecular level help prove this?

It would be nice to see them preforming large size or duplication feats from it or anything similar to Green Lantern(DC).
 
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Community_Gamer said:
I don't know if he specifically gave it to him but yeah
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More importantly what define their job ?

Hajime: someone who spend time on manga and video games got a job that is highly dependent on creativity.

Shizuku: got samurai and ninja related stuff(sword and speed), possibly influenced by her family?

Yue: her job is Oracle, make sense that she is the only one along the hero that can withstand being possessed by a god. The hero can be possessed by the goddess, she just choosed an object instead.

Eri: Necromancer, she had a messed up childhood after the death of her father.

Kousuke: Assassin's creed. He got "Abyss lord after losing his mind in Miledy's labyrinth .
 
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From chapter 486:

World Door:
The “World Door”, the exclusive artifact for being a gate that was connected directly to the palace of Heiligh Kingdom must have been opened.

The gate with pointlessly ornate shape now allowed unrestricted travel between Tortus and earth limited to the people who were registered with soul magic as authorized to use it.

Dragon vein, dragon hole, sacred ground……those important factors in regard to earth’s willpower had been analyzed, understood, and grasped by Hajime. With that he turned the plot of land of Nagumo house itself into a sacred ground.

And so, the inside of Nagumo house right now was becoming a place that was overflowing with energy to a degree that it wouldn’t be an exaggeration to call the place a holy land.

That energy was directly drawn up and converted into magic power to constantly fuel the “World Door”.

Also, if it looked like there was no problem then he intended to set up this direct gate to other world in each world that they would visit in their trip this time. ch 486
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Dragon Veins: streams or channels of willpower also known as Ley lines.
Dragon Den/Hole: a hole that lead to a Dragon vein.
Sacred Ground/Place: locations where willpower is concentrated.

BTW, the DRAGON was redirecting those veins into Japan.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Perhaps it was just his imagination, or perhaps Hajime’s kinetic vision simply weakened just for a moment!

Inside a slightly wide space that suddenly came into view──he got the feeling that he saw rabbit ears.

「I don’t want to see something terrifying today when we finally managed to go into a date together.」

「Hajime-san is terrified!? Just what in the world is there in Japan’s underground railway!?」

「I don’t want to ascertain it. At the very least not today.」

He would absolutely check it out later but, today was a day exclusive for Liliana.

To think that those guys might have violated Hajime’s instruction again and finally start infesting the subway zone……
Click to expand...
 
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EL_xWatcher1234x said:
From chapter 486:

World Door:
Click to expand...
That's wild.
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
Dragon Veins: streams or channels of willpower also known as Ley lines.
Dragon Den/Hole: a hole that lead to a Dragon vein.
Sacred Ground/Place: locations where willpower is concentrated.

BTW, the DRAGON was redirecting those veins into Japan.
Click to expand...
Willpower OP
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Click to expand...
Lol he's going to make them his subordinates
 
Absorption:They can absorb mana

Corruption for mana and "wind of lamentation ".


1) Not all demons are incorporeal
At the same time, the bloody wind that was blowing violently in hell――that which was called as “the wind of lamentation”, seemed usable to form a transient flesh body which was centered on the soul.

Although, in the first place, “hell” was a world that wasn’t suitable for people with a flesh body to continue to exist. Thus, just like how those ghoul-like things looked like that, the flesh body there was constantly incomplete and ugly. As for their ability to think, people whose soul was of particularly fine quality when they were human would have it to a certain degree, but normal people were only able to act instinctually.

「That is the reason why they are trying to descend into this world. If they are able to materialize on Earth, they will be able to maintain a definite flesh body. Like that, naturally, the rank of their soul will rise, and they will be able to take back their thinking ability.」ch 308
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This apply for the low tier demons. The "wind of lamentation" constantly destroy their physical body and lower their sanity, and they are constantly regenerating their physical body unless their soul got damaged.

It also change the shape of their soul, and the reason the shadows of 7DS resemble a human figure is because they have a strong souls while the other lower demons were transformed.

2)mana: it transform animals into monsters.
“Also, it seems monsters aren’t monsters because they have mana crystals inside them. That’s kind of a surprise.”

Like Shea had said, it wasn’t mana crystals that turned regular animals into monsters. In fact, it was the other way around.

Once a creature had absorbed enough mana to turn into a monster, the mana solidified into a mana crystal.
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The mana crystal are the cause of the cellure destruction or mana sickness that infected the people from the desert. Mana crystals form when mana concentrate inside the body without being used. Is that poison?

The Leviathan and the Devourer existed since the age of gods and they're native to Tortus unlike the monster who were mutated by mana or just an experiment done by Ehit. that's why they don't produce mana crystals.

Also, they were the only monsters shown with the ability to manipulate the weather.
 
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About stamina :

There is multiple statments about the energy of those planets being inexhaustible.

Shouldn't Lutria and charactes who can manipulate the plant energy have infinite stamina like like Mother?
 
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Possible upgrade for Mother :
They thought Mother was destroyed together with Harden. That perception was a great mistake.

What was destroyed was nothing but a terminal that was ingeniously disguised as itself. And then when Mother finished positioning the pieces on the chessboard perfectly, it brought the game to a checkmate in one go.

The planets that were the immigration destinations and the colonies on them were destroyed one after another along with the residences. The AIs that were managing the fleets and weapons also got put under Mother’s control without anyone realizing. The AIs rebelled and bared their fang toward mankind. But even those AIs got disposed by Mother later along with the other military powers.

And then, the united army that was already exhausted was unable to regain the stolen military power. During that time they were helplessly hunted without any resistance against the completely new type of enemy army. ch371
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5-B for AP, and interplanetary or interstellar for range.

Or even Low Multiversal range:
「Did you aim to summon Amanogawa?」

G10 answered Hajime’s question in negative.

「No. I wasn’t aiming at the two of you, I couldn’t. It was also the first time the device was activated, so it was practically like an experimental activation. It also exploded in the end, perhaps because it was made from scrap materials.」

Actually the explosion of that summoning device was also completely an unforeseen situation for G10. It also planned to reverse the system to let Jasper and others escape to other world after it succeeded to summon something that could oppose Mother.

But the outcome was that the device exploded due to a serious problem and the scattered energy was detected. A squad was sent to investigate and tragedy struck Jasper and others.

By the way, the way the system worked was apparently by detecting strong energy, then it would connect the space to that world and drew in that energy along with everything around it. That was why the summoning was drawn toward the place where the hero and demon king and his wive~s……

「Well, it’s Amanogawa after all.」

「In the end I’m a summoning bait anyway」

The gate was opened right at where Kouki was might be because of the hero’s destiny.
ch371
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This device was created by G10(who is inferior to Mother) from Junk. It detected energy on another universe and connect the space to that world to preform the summoning.

Were the weapons that she used to do it destroyed?
「Yes. And then, weapons other than those will be nothing more than the different application or extension of the weapons that the two of you have already witnessed, so it won’t be anything that cannot be dealt with for the two of you.」

「Is that so? I thought that there will be a lot more variety, like bacteriological weapon or the like……」

「Such thing existed in the past. However, I believe you can consider such things to be lost for the current mother.」

「What do you mean?」

G10’s words paused for a bit. When it started speaking again, its voice sounded a bit trembling.

「Because we……mankind’s last resistance……in exchange for their life, the majority of the truly dangerous weapons……as well as their data had been destroyed.」

「……Are you sure?」

「Affirmative. I had definitely, confirmed the sight of everyone……my master blowing himself up together with the databank.」ch371
Click to expand...
 
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EL_xWatcher1234x said:
Absorption:They can absorb mana

Corruption for mana and "wind of lamentation ".


1) Not all demons are incorporeal

This apply for the low tier demons. The "wind of lamentation" constantly destroy their physical body and lower their sanity, and they are constantly regenerating their physical body unless their soul got damaged.

It also change the shape of their soul, and the reason the shadows of 7DS resemble a human figure is because they have a strong souls while the other lower demons were transformed.
Click to expand...
Very interesting
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
2)mana: it transform animals into monsters.

The mana crystal are the cause of the cellure destruction or mana sickness that infected the people from the desert. Mana crystals form when mana concentrate inside the body without being used. Is that poison?
Click to expand...
Sounds like posion and aligns with previous info
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
The Leviathan and the Devourer existed since the age of gods and they're native to Tortus unlike the monster who were mutated by mana or just an experiment done by Ehit. that's why they don't produce mana crystals.

Also, they were the only monsters shown with the ability to manipulate the weather.
Click to expand...
That's good point to consider
 
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
About stamina :

There is multiple statments about the energy of those planets being inexhaustible.

Shouldn't Lutria and charactes who can manipulate the plant energy have infinite stamina like like Mother?
Click to expand...
Potentially. But planet energy is a bit vague. It is something only with the geography or do things like atomosphere and electromagnetic field factor in?
 
Community_Gamer said:
Sounds like posion and aligns with previous info
Click to expand...
Mana is the cause of mutation while mana crystals are what destroy the cells, remember that person they saved in the desert. That's why seal stone can cure it?

Isn't this similar to Tensei slime ?

Community_Gamer said:
Potentially. But planet energy is a bit vague. It is something only with the geography or do things like atomosphere and electromagnetic field factor in?
Click to expand...
The energy they're talking about is the unique energy of that planet (willpower, mana, spirit element, element of thought...).

Don't know what is the source of those energies, because they said somewhere that the tree only awaken the potential of that world.

Maybe it's the soul?
He didn’t know what lie at the bottom of the hole of light.

But, it wasn’t anything good.

Kousuke understood even though the bottom was full covered by light. It was a large river.

It was the stream of light of life. A great stream that was beyond human knowledge. Anyone who got swallowed by it would surely be unable to maintain their self no matter who they were. They would lose their “self” and became “everything” that flowed endlessly in there.

When he looked below, it felt like he was going to get sucked in. He suddenly even got the mood of wanting to let himself to be swallowed by the stream.

Such subconscious and dangerous thought was,

『You keep getting in the way-』

Cut off by the words of foreign country. The “Language Comprehension” skill translated the main land words.

Yes, the man in black was clinging using earth tentacle at the Fujiwra man at the most bottom.

He wouldn’t go die alone. For the sake of his mission, he would definitely bring the skilled people of Fujiwara clan to the grave together with him. The madness in his eyes was conveying that.

「You bastard, so annoying! Just go fall by yourself!」

Kousuke summoned a kunai from “treasure warehouse”. He threw it and hit the man, but as expected the part that got hit only scattered as soul. It didn’t deal any damage.

Furthermore,

「N-no good. W-what is waiting for this guys is-……guh, we can’t allow ourselves to fall into the dragon vein!」ch 412
Click to expand...
That light(souls ?) is the energy that circulate the planet.

Do you think that if they fall their soul will fuse with that energy?
 
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Radiation manipulation or just a countermeasure?
The mist that was starting to cover the surrounding area was terribly annoying.

『Bad visibility. Focus with heat detection.』

It sent transmission to its subordinates. It also sent situation report to the other squads.

Then,

『Bad visibility……unable to confirm. Squad four, report in detail.』

After such communication came from other squad……

The sword soldier that was the commander of squad four instantly fell into confusion.

Because it was this clear even through the mist――

『! Enemy attack――』

Before it could finish speaking, gunshots resounded consecutively inside the mist. There was also a loud explosion sound following it.

Its heat sensor didn’t detect anything. Its other sensors were also the same. It connected its communication channel with the squad that was deployed ahead and asked for confirmation.

But only noises came back. The communication from other squads had also been cut off when it came back to its senses. Its communication link to its subordinates was also not working.

It finally noticed then. This mist wasn’t just a mist. It was the jamming from the enemies. Most likely they used smoke grenade that was filled with metal fragments to reflect the radio wave irregularly. ch 372
Click to expand...
 
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EL_xWatcher1234x said:
Mana is the cause of mutation while mana crystals are what destroy the cells, remember that person they saved in the desert. That's why seal stone can cure it?
Click to expand...
Yes I'd imagine so. The son of the duke of Anakaji.
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
Isn't this similar to Tensei slime ?
Click to expand...
Kinda but not entirely
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
The energy they're talking about is the unique energy of that planet (willpower, mana, spirit element, element of thought...).

Don't know what is the source of those energies, because they said somewhere that the tree only awaken the potential of that world.

Maybe it's the soul?
Click to expand...
Hmm then planet manipulation probably isn't enough to prove anything.
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
That light(souls ?) is the energy that circulate the planet.

Do you think that if they fall their soul will fuse with that energy?
Click to expand...
That's possible
 
Community_Gamer said:
Hmm then planet manipulation probably isn't enough to prove anything.
Click to expand...
I meant that the nature and the source of the energy is little bit vague, I think the great tree just convert or balance that energy. Before Hajime revive the Earth tree he said that its amount was about 1/10000 of its original "potential", and reviving the tree return it to 100%. That's why people start awakening.

The tree only awaken the potential energy but the planet isn't fully dependent on it, maybe its function is just converting energy (like normal plant convert CO2 into oxygen). But what is the source ?

In Zero, it was stated that Miledi will not run out of energy because she was using Gravity Magic to tap into the energy of the planet. Does this help ?
 
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EL_xWatcher1234x said:
I meant that the nature and the source of the energy is little bit vague, I think the great tree just convert or balance that energy. Before Hajime revive the Earth tree he said that its amount was about 1/10000 of its original "potential", and reviving the tree return it to 100%. That's why people start awakening.

The tree only awaken the potential energy but the planet isn't fully dependent on it, maybe its function is just converting energy (like normal plant convert CO2 into oxygen). But what is the source ?
Click to expand...
Well that's pretty crucial to understand but I see what you are getting at.
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
In Zero, it was stated that Miledi will not run out of energy because she was using Gravity Magic to tap into the energy of the planet. Does this help ?
Click to expand...
Ok this is far better argument.
 
 
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Community_Gamer said:
That is a question for Expectro since I haven't gotten there.
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Which chapter have you reached?

Apparitions got authorities that come from their myth. Divine class apparitions could resist some hax that Even Ehit couldn't like empowered Yue's "divine word".

There is also some impressive feats like an Oni's attack being able to target Kousuke's true body even though we learn that Kousuke's cloning is like replicating the imformation of the soul. That' why they are equal in power, this is so impressive that even soul magic user like Yue can't use it with the proficiency.

Basically Hajime weapon that follow the soul won't work here, and that a certain oni could ignore "fake souls" like the one Hajime put in his guns to fight Ehit.
 
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
Which chapter have you reached?
Click to expand...
358 but I have skipped the Abyss Lord Arcs....I cringe so much when reading them so its hard to get through on top of the poor translation
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
Apparitions got authorities that come from their myth. Divine class apparitions could resist some hax that Even Ehit couldn't like empowered Yue's "divine word".

There is also some impressive feats like an Oni's attack being able to target Kousuke's true body even though we learn that Kousuke's cloning is like replicating the imformation of the soul. That' why they are equal in power, this is so impressive that even soul magic user like Yue can't use it with the proficiency.

Basically Hajime weapon that follow the soul won't work here, and that a certain oni could ignore "fake souls" like the one Hajime put in his guns to fight Ehit.
Click to expand...
Makes sense since its probably attacking conceptually right?
 
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