Arifureta Shokugyou de Sekai Saikyou Discussion Thread 2

[Community_Gamer]

Can element of thought or the conception of an individual be qualified as info type2 or concept type3?

Can Hajime create or manipulate conceptions?

 

[Community_Gamer]

Fan animation: Hajime vs Rimuru

While I think there's some arguments you can make...at this point with current Hajime he's kind of beating the Tensura allegations pretty handily. But they are right most Arifureta probably still gets clapped (Besides Yue and Ehit) unless you make a lot of assumptions on the artifacts Hajime would've given his friends and family. For example his gauntlet (that shit is OP).

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Can Hajime create or manipulate conceptions?

Everyone create conception through pray, belief, faith, wishes... It's abstract while element of thought is what give it form.


No one manipulate it directly, except (maybe) the DRAGON who can manipulate everything related to the conception of dragons and snakes.

The miasma that burst out from the ground was granting endless regeneration to them. Naturally it included Yamato no Orochi and Yato no Kami.

Most likely, it was one of the authorities of the “Dragon” that ought to be called as “legend reproduction miasma”. ch424

Conception can also works as empowerment(Ehit, Yue, apparitions, named demons...)

While I think there's some arguments you can make...at this point with current Hajime he's kind of beating the Tensura allegations pretty handily. But they are right most Arifureta probably still gets clapped (Besides Yue and Ehit) unless you make a lot of assumptions on the artifacts Hajime would've given his friends and family. For example his gauntlet (that shit is OP).

what gauntlet?

Do you think Hajime could deal with their haxes given prep time?

 

[Community_Gamer]

Everyone create conception through pray, belief, faith, wishes... It's abstract while element of thought is what give it form.


No one manipulate it directly, except (maybe) the DRAGON who can manipulate everything related to the conception of dragons and snakes.

Conception can also works as empowerment(Ehit, Yue, apparitions, named demons...)

Yeah that's what I thought.

what gauntlet?

Guardian Talisman

Do you think Hajime could deal with their haxes given prep time?

Most of them yeah. Something like Castle Guard would be hard to counter without fighting ir directly. Drago Nova not sure he could counter that. Turn Null I am also not sure.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Guardian Talisman

It's a necklace

Most of them yeah. Something like Castle Guard would be hard to counter without fighting ir directly. Drago Nova not sure he could counter that. Turn Null I am also not sure.

what is castle guard, drago nova and turn null?

I read some stuff about turn null, still don't know much.

by the way a character from a different main branch of the world tree like the "calamity" are unaffected by systems from other main branches. That's why the compass didn't work. (causality type 4?)

 

[Community_Gamer]

It's a necklace

Since when? Or are you saying the necklace artifact doubles as a Guardian Talisman

what is castle guard, drago nova and turn null?

I read some stuff about turn null, still don't know much.

by the way a character from a different main branch of the world tree like the "calamity" are unaffected by systems from other main branches. That's why the compass didn't work. (causality type 4?)

Castle Guard is an impenetrable barrier that can be activated by the user at will, powered by the loyalty of the user's subjects. While the barrier is active, the use of skills, magic, magicules, and even aura is completely prohibited, leaving only purely physical and psychological means of attack available to the user such as swordplay and haki. It completely nullifies all phenomenon.

Drago Nova is a sphere that fires out an enormous unblockable beam of light which destroys everything in its path. It runs on a unknown theory/energy called Stardust. Only one character (Milim) can and has used this ability. No one in the series has blocked or tanked this attack despite all space-time manipulation, teleportation/BFR, and reality manipulation in the series. All the god tiers say its unblockable or just get bodied by it.

Turn Null allows the user to constantly produce and harness the ultimate destructive energy.
This is destruction energy that created the universe and erases anything that comes in contact with it. It can also be used to recreate the universe including all individuals and memories (tens of thousands of times). Its also like an endless energy for specifically Rimuru as only he can use it.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Since when? Or are you saying the necklace artifact doubles as a Guardian Talisman

It's a necklace with seven rings to counter ancient magic.

Are you confusing it with this?

• Laobenschiram: A lance drill artifact that look like a huge lance but with a pointed tip that have spiral grooves in it and a wideness similar to a umbrella. The surface of the drill is coated in sealstone and the dense super alloy that made up the rest of its volume its enchanted with all seven types of ancient magic, making it the strongest offensive and defensive artifact in Hajime possession. It had the power to drill right through anything, wheter it was physical or magical. It have restoration magic that repaired it night instantly, spatial magic that protected the wielder, gravity magic that let it charge forward at breakneck speeds, spirit and metamorphosis magic to make it a living golem with the sole purpose of absorb whatever ultimate attack it receive to later analyze it with evolution magic and later enchant it with said power.

Castle Guard is an impenetrable barrier that can be activated by the user at will, powered by the loyalty of the user's subjects. While the barrier is active, the use of skills, magic, magicules, and even aura is completely prohibited, leaving only purely physical and psychological means of attack available to the user such as swordplay and haki. It completely nullifies all phenomenon.

So just powernull based on law manipulation?

Hajime's artifact, just counter it or straight up resist it and I can see other characters resisting it.
especially when they resist layered AM with will alone.

Drago Nova is a sphere that fires out an enormous unblockable beam of light which destroys everything in its path. It runs on a unknown theory/energy called Stardust. Only one character (Milim) can and has used this ability. No one in the series has blocked or tanked this attack despite all space-time manipulation, teleportation/BFR, and reality manipulation in the series. All the god tiers say its unblockable or just get bodied by it.

You know creation magic can reach subatomic to macro-quantum.

he used it to create:
(electrons)Elemagia: turn electricity into mana
(photon)his laser: that can move in absolute zero and can only be reflected by space bending.(not sure?)

He could make something for it.

Turn Null allows the user to constantly produce and harness the ultimate destructive energy.
This is destruction energy that created the universe and erases anything that comes in contact with it. It can also be used to recreate the universe including all individuals and memories (tens of thousands of times). Its also like an endless energy for specifically Rimuru as only he can use it.

Damn

It was theorized in ZERO that when a person die the soul disperce into it's source (the world, primordial energy) and wiped clean, and reincarnation is when the memmory remain.

It woukd be nice if we get more info about this energy.

 

[Community_Gamer]

It's a necklace with seven rings to counter ancient magic.

Are you confusing it with this?

No definitely not but that thing is ridiculous as well. Why the **** did I think it was a ring gauntlet? Yeah its the necklace

So just powernull based on law manipulation?

Hajime's artifact, just counter it or straight up resist it and I can see other characters resisting it.
especially when they resist layered AM with will alone.

No. Ultimate Skill Uriel possess Law Manipulation as a subskill. You can create a barrier technique called Absolute Guard which uses Law Manipulation along with all of Uriel's subskills including Infinite Prison (infinitely vast Imaginary space). You make Absolute Guard even stronger by linking it with Uriel's belief system (more believers = more energy towards barrier) this is called Faux Castle Guard.

Then Multi-dimensional Barrier scales above that.

Then there's Castle Guard which just negates all that shit.

You know creation magic can reach subatomic to macro-quantum.

he used it to create:
(electrons)Elemagia: turn electricity into mana
(photon)his laser: that can move in absolute zero and can only be reflected by space bending.(not sure?)

He could make something for it.

Idk about macro-quantum but there definitely individuals that can create or manipulate subatomic particles or energy.

"Spiritrons are the subatomic particles that make up all forms of spiritual matter, lacking any sort of attribute and filling a position similar to that of the neutron. As a type of spiritual matter, spiritrons are normally intangible and invisible to the naked eye, though it possible for them to materialize into a solid state.

Despite spiritrons normally being infused with attributes and compounded to make composite-like particles such as Magicules, they are capable of existing in a state all on their own. In this state, Spiritrons move eratically through space-time in seemingly random patterns, making them seem to move ignoring time and space passing through all kinds of barriers and slip through physical materials."

"Infons are the smallest particles and are contained within all matter in the world, including Souls and even Skills. Their mass is as close to zero as it gets. They are unaffected by space and time and are thus able to transfer information in any situation with zero time difference."

It was theorized in ZERO that when a person die the soul disperce into it's source (the world, primordial energy) and wiped clean, and reincarnation is when the memmory remain.

It woukd be nice if we get more info about this energy.

Hmm interesting

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Why the **** did I think it was a ring gauntlet? Yeah its the necklace

I really want to see him create the infinity gauntlet, he got an artificial arm.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

No. Ultimate Skill Uriel possess Law Manipulation as a subskill. You can create a barrier technique called Absolute Guard which uses Law Manipulation along with all of Uriel's subskills including Infinite Prison (infinitely vast Imaginary space). You make Absolute Guard even stronger by linking it with Uriel's belief system (more believers = more energy towards barrier) this is called Faux Castle Guard.

Krystal key?
unless it null layered CM 1

by the way how many layers does the verse has?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

dk about macro-quantum but there definitely individuals that can create or manipulate subatomic particles or energy.

I doubt the can deal with ancient magic, and I meant he can convert the energy to something else.

so their info type 2 is physical ? (infons)

 

[Community_Gamer]

I doubt the can deal with ancient magic, and I meant he can convert the energy to something else.

I don't wanna get into the Tensura conceptual arguments. I don't really subscribe to them. But if not for abstract ancient magic and concept magic....it'd be a nearly impossible sell for Hajime.

so their info type 2 is physical ? (infons)

Yes

 

[Community_Gamer]

Krystal key?

How would that work against an invisible, impossibly thin, self containing barrier?

unless it null layered CM 1

Yeah they do.

by the way how many layers does the verse has?

Bro that's not a topic I can handle. You gonna have ask someone else. But they do have layers of resistance but not an absurd amount.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I don't wanna get into the Tensura conceptual arguments. I don't really subscribe to them. But if not for abstract ancient magic and concept magic....it'd be a nearly impossible sell for Hajime.

Have you forgot what will can do in Arifureta?

How would that work against an invisible, impossibly thin, self containing barrier?

It literally a key that open a portal to anywhere physical or not.

thinking about it ancient magic are not the same as skill are in Slime verse, I think that space magic could do the job but Exprectro and Pegasus could answer this.
(we even know from the fiction book that space magic could enter fiction or was it something else?)


Can't Hajime just hack the world system?

 

[Community_Gamer]

Have you forgot what will can do in Arifureta?

No bro, I'm literally rescaling and getting scans for every little thing throughout the series....again.

It literally a key that open a portal to anywhere physical or not.

Are you saying the portal itself is conceptual? Or simply that it manipulates concepts to create portals anywhere? Similar results ig. So you are implying Hajime would simply open the barrier on anyone using Castle Guard and shoot through it...I assume?

I won't deny that's very possible, although probably necessary because there are other ways around Castle Guard. Like killing all the believers powering it, using a powerful physical attack that surpasses its energy level, or attacking in the interim when it's deactivated so one can attack.

thinking about it ancient magic are not the same as skill are in Slime verse, I think that space magic could do the job but Exprectro and Pegasus could answer this.
(we even know from the fiction book that space magic could enter fiction or was it something else?)

I don't necessarily disagree.

Can't Hajime just hack the world system?

Uhh not sure. We know very little about it, but Rimuru (especially after V20) isn't really bound by the Voice of the World/ World System.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Are you saying the portal itself is conceptual? Or simply that it manipulates concepts to create portals anywhere? Similar results ig. So you are implying Hajime would simply open the barrier on anyone using Castle Guard and shoot through it...I assume?

the crystal key use the concept "take me where I want "

Like killing all the believers powering it, using a powerful physical attack that surpasses its energy level, or attacking in the interim when it's deactivated so one can attack.

Easy for him especial when he can use Grasp Gloria to absorb that energy.

Uhh not sure. We know very little about it, but Rimuru (especially after V20) isn't really bound by the Voice of the World/ World System.

It's kinda funny
Hajime(Hacker) vs Rimuru(Administrator)

 

[Community_Gamer]

the crystal key use the concept "take me where I want "

I know. I was trying to figure out what exactly he'd due in particular. Because obviously he wouldn't be able to go through the portal so he'd have to shoot something into it.

Easy for him especial when he can use Grasp Gloria to absorb that energy.

How exactly does Grasp Gloria work exactly?

It's kinda funny
Hajime(Hacker) vs Rimuru(Administrator)

Ig

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Because obviously he wouldn't be able to go through the portal so he'd have to shoot something into it.

Can you explain why?

How did they counter it?

How exactly does Grasp Gloria work exactly?

It's an artifact that perpetual motion to produce, store, absorb energy continuously.(still a prototype? )

Don't understand exactly how it works or its limitation, but it was able to instantly restore the energy of a planet (machine world) and absorb the energy of planet earth.

I think Hajime is using it with elemental conversion to convert energy into matter, that's how he created the Minature Garden.

• Element Arrangement Equal Conversion System: An artifact which allows him to convert element, the smallest material that became the base of any kind of energy, into energy.

Ig

what does "Ig" mean?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Ig is I guess.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Should we make a CRT for types of immortality, regeneration and their negation in Arifureta?

 

[Community_Gamer]

Can you explain why?

How did they counter it?

Castle Guard is just a barrier technique, so it surrounds its user when active. It'd be like Rimuru trying to teleport past Hajime's mana when he activates Limit Break. There's nothing or no room between the barrier and the person.

It's an artifact that perpetual motion to produce, store, absorb energy continuously.(still a prototype? )

Don't understand exactly how it works or its limitation, but it was able to instantly restore the energy of a planet (machine world) and absorb the energy of planet earth.

I think Hajime is using it with elemental conversion to convert energy into matter, that's how he created the Minature Garden.

Oh, I think I was confusing Grasp Gloria with Bel Agarta.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

There's nothing or no room between the barrier and the person.

You mean the person is immovable?

I think he'll just adapt.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Oh, I think I was confusing Grasp Gloria with Bel Agarta.

Don't forget about Elemagia.
A baseball size artifact that convert electricity into mana.

「This lightning clad is a characteristic magic that converts magic power into lightning strikes. Magic power can be converted into electricity……then, don’t you think that the reverse is also possible?」

「Please wait a second, Hajime-kun. I have a really bad premonition of this.」

Aiko’s cheeks convulsed from Hajime’s words. And then, with a small voice, she said something like「A month ago, there was a city that blacked out completely. The electricity was immediately restored but……if I remember correctly, it seemed that there was a nuclear power plant nearby that city」, hearing that the classmates also realized what Hajime had done and their cheeks convulsed greatly.

「Exactly as you imagined. I converted the electricity of a nuclear power plant into magic power, just for a bit. It took a bit of labor to create the exclusive artifact for establishing this conversion method, but finally, I succeeded in realizing it.」

「”Success”, that’s not it! Aa, what have you done when I took off my eyes of you for just a bit……」

Looking at the triumphant look of Hajime who sto――received the electricity of a nuclear power plant, Aiko held her head as though enduring a headache, while the other people were getting a faraway look.

By the way, the city getting blacked out was also something unexpected for Hajime, so he had fixed it so that right now he was able to do magic power conversion without affecting the power supply of the city. ch185

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Should we make a CRT for types of immortality, regeneration and their negation in Arifureta?

 

[Community_Gamer]

You mean the person is immovable?

Well you can't move when Castle Guard is active but that's not what I meant. There's literally nowhere for Hajime to go. That's why I said he can shoot through it.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Well you can't move when Castle Guard is active but that's not what I meant. There's literally nowhere for Hajime to go. That's why I said he can shoot through it.

Dude can adapt to CM 1 so I don't think it will be a problem. What give the advantage are his layers, the guardian talisman and Laobenschiram worked on Ehit's hax that's like 20 layers so either that or he just adapt.

You know Hajime affect space with his aura, could this help?

But, there wasn’t even the slightest leeway to be charmed by that expression. Because the moment the white haired and eye patched man completely came out, a pressure descended. It caused all living things to hold their breath in mute amazement.

「Shia, I’m glad you are safe……」

「Yes-, yes desu! Hajime-san!」

The released pressure was an atrocity that denied all life. And yet, the words that were spoken to Shia on his chest were meltingly sweet. The voice was oozing with relief from her heart. Shia’s rabbit ears wrapped around Hajime’s neck affectionately. Her soft cheeks were rubbing on her beloved person’s chest as though there was no tomorrow.

Regardless of the space that was continuing to twist in frenzy even now to expulse the target and the super gravitational field enveloping the area that wouldn’t allow any escape, what was drifting in the air was an extremely sweet atmosphere.

Although,

「Chih. What a gloomy air.」

And so,

「──”Limit Break”」

The crimson magic power exploded. Forgot about the atmosphere, the very space itself felt like it would be blown to smithereens from the shockwave that detonated around Hajime and Shia. That phenomenon that looked like a red moon instantly scattered away the twisting space and gravitational field.

The crimson shock wave blew away all the dumbfounded people. They were tossed around like a cloth flapping inside a bomb blast. Arogan, Gruelle, and Louis laid out their barrier with amazing reaction speed in order to protect their respective comrades and lords who were relatively near, but they were blown away along with their barrier.

The use of the “Limit Break” was only for an instant. Be that as it may, everyone there felt it. Everyone comprehended it.

That wasn’t human. It was something terrifying that exceeded such framework. ch 338

 

[Community_Gamer]

Dude can adapt to CM 1 so I don't think it will be a problem. What give the advantage are his layers, the guardian talisman and Laobenschiram worked on Ehit's hax that's like 20 layers so either that or he just adapt.

You know Hajime affect space with his aura, could this help?

There's nothing to adapt to. I think I'll drop this topic since we clearly don't understand each other. But know that I agree Hajime would win btw

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

There's nothing to adapt to.

concept, skill, energy?
isn't eveything info type 2?

I think I'll drop this topic since we clearly don't understand each other.

no prob.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

There's nothing to adapt to. I think I'll drop this topic since we clearly don't understand each other. But know that I agree Hajime would win btw

Really?
I am sure he could stomp the mid tier characters and that's it but Ok.

I think Pegasus or Expectro will be better choice to answer how Hajime will win.

Just to add we saw the limit of slime verse with Veldanava while Arifureta keep expanding in both size and hax.

Like I mention before there is a possiblity for them to get Acausality type 4 that could possibly protect them from every hax on the verse because different main branches from The World Tree follow their own system(Laws, CM, Physics...) and that's why the compass was useless on "the calamity".
At least this is my interpretation.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

From what Gamer is saying the barrier is so close to the caster body that there is physically no space for Hajime to teleport inside, like a Mob/Shigeo type of barrier, one that act practically like an armor, reason to why Hajime can't teleport inside but could send bullets to pierce the target body inside said armor/barrier.

 

[Community_Gamer]

From what Gamer is saying the barrier is so close to the caster body that there is physically no space for Hajime to teleport inside, like a Mob/Shigeo type of barrier, one that act practically like an armor, reason to why Hajime can't teleport inside but could send bullets to pierce the target body inside said armor/barrier.

Yes. Precisely. Although Ig Hajime could potentially manipulate space to a degree that there would be more physical space between the barrier,

 

[Community_Gamer]

Just to add we saw the limit of slime verse with Veldanava while Arifureta keep expanding in both size and hax.

Uhhhhhhhhh kinda maybe. Hard to say with how V21 ended. Rimuru will massive list of upgrades in next volume too.

Like I mention before there is a possiblity for them to get Acausality type 4 that could possibly protect them from every hax on the verse because different main branches from The World Tree follow their own system(Laws, CM, Physics...) and that's why the compass was useless on "the calamity".
At least this is my interpretation.

Are you implying that there are being that scale to the branches?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Yes. Precisely. Although Ig Hajime could potentially manipulate space to a degree that there would be more physical space between the barrier,

He can expand space or create it, How do you think they create dimensional storage.
Hajime's treasure trove hold an empty space where he can store his weapons.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Are you implying that there are being that scale to the branches?

No, we don't get much info about it but it look like anyone is unaffected by the systems (laws, concepts...)of other worlds (main branches).

The World Tree like a tree has multiple main branches, each one is a world of it's own.
(already posted)

That was the existence of “possible world”.

According to Foltina, even their nine universes were located on nothing more than a single branch from a major branch that extended from the world tree. Furthermore their universes were nothing more than the leaves that grew at the further end of a smaller branch. There were other branches and leaves beside their branch. Nearby branch would have similar worlds with theirs, while the far away branch could possibly could have worlds with completely different culture and history engraved on them.

Not only that, it might even be possible that there were different major branches that grew from the world tree, where mankind itself didn’t exist there in the first place, where the worlds were completely different, in law of physics, concept, or the world’s underlying principle.

「It’s not a simple story where there’s an origin world and that’s it huh.」

Even a goddess didn’t have a clear grasp of the details or the full picture, they couldn’t. But, as an avatar of a great tree, they simply understood that the world was like that from the moment they were born.

The way to know everything was to access the World Tree──that was to say the origin world, but it seemed their instinct or perhaps their soul warned them. That it was hopeless. That it was beyond them. Their existence itself would warp if they stepped further ahead, that they would never be able to return back to normal. ch 470

The nine realms exist within a small branch, How big do you think the cosmology could reach?

 

[Community_Gamer]

He can expand space or create it, How do you think they create dimensional storage.
Hajime's treasure trove hold an empty space where he can store his weapons.

Bro I know. I was talking about using in battle. I just never seen him do it before.

 

[Community_Gamer]

No, we don't get much info about it but it look like anyone is unaffected by the systems (laws, concepts...)of other worlds (main branches).

The World Tree like a tree has multiple main branches, each one is a world of it's own.
(already posted)

The nine realms exist within a small branch, How big do you think the cosmology could reach?

I doubt we'll ever find out. Tbh I'm not particularly interested in Arifureta's cosmology. I'm more interested in characters and relationships between characters.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Uhhhhhhhhh kinda maybe. Hard to say with how V21 ended. Rimuru will massive list of upgrades in next volume too.

Just wait until the after-story get adapted into a LN.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

How did Ehit and Yue turn someone into an apostle? Do they use creation magic?

Just asking because it could give Kouki some resistance.

 

[Community_Gamer]

How did Ehit and Yue turn someone into an apostle? Do they use creation magic?

Just asking because it could give Kouki some resistance.

Hmm not sure

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Hmm not sure

Does Expectro know?

Do you think the hero being a summoning magnet could work as something like a passive probability manipulation?

That was why, when the avatar sought help and carried out a summoning, it would definitely get connected to the hero. Also, it was because the hero was an existence with the quality that the World Tree recognized, the hero was able to pass through the gap between worlds. Though as the side effect of that, when a hole was drilled open in the gap between worlds, most of the time it would also get connected to the hero.

It's a countermeasure to get the threat closer to the hero in order to defeat it, and unless the summoning is specified "the hero" (Kouki) will be the default or someone else recognized as a hero (Shia).

That's why even when who isn't a goddess like Ehit try to summon someone he will end up with the hero.
Lutria preventing the summoning just end up changing it from plan A(Kouki) to plan B(Shia).