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Arifureta Shokugyou de Sekai Saikyou Discussion Thread 2

Years ago, yup.

Slightly over baseline, Supreme Break/Overload Hajime 2160xFTL>Limit Break Hajime 1296xFTL> Riftwalk Hajime 432xFTL>Base Hajime >36xFTL
 
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dang, how did the calc reach that level? Hajime's fast but I never felt like MFTL+ speed ever shown up before
 
Multipliers, my friend, multipliers.

He scales above Kouki, Kaori, Shizuku, who are FTL, riftwalk makes him a 12x faster, then on top of that he has limit break and overload, a 3 and 5 times multiplier.

Apostles=Post Evolution Hajime, thus with limit break they are 36xFTL, and as i said above Hajime is now blitzing them in base with no riftwalk.
 
Arifureta Zero confirms the scaling too.

Base Miledi is near lightspeed, lets lowball and say 50c, she got Lyutillis's strongest boost which is a 3x boost at least, this means Miledi would be like 1.5xFTL, she then amped her speed by 10x with her gravity spheres, so now 15xFTL, and still had issues keeping up with an Apostles, bear in mind this was thousands of years ago, so makes sense Apostles in the present would be faster.
 
Just saw the scene and yeah, I think it was even better than the wn version. Close to two hundred limit break apostles killed in sixty seconds with the bare minimal amount of firepower, and this is even more impressive when you take in consideration how actually team work is the strong point of apostles.
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Arifureta Zero confirms the scaling too.

Base Miledi is near lightspeed, lets lowball and say 50c, she got Lyutillis's strongest boost which is a 3x boost at least, this means Miledi would be like 1.5xFTL, she then amped her speed by 10x with her gravity spheres, so now 15xFTL, and still had issues keeping up with an Apostles, bear in mind this was thousands of years ago, so makes sense Apostles in the present would be faster.
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To add to this that even with all her amps and ability to get faster/stronger in middle of fight (the girl need AC/RPL) Miledi still had problems with their an apostle speed, she only won do to her super power up of awaken and master the true essence of gravity magic. Apostles in the present not only are probably faster but based in the fight of Noint vs Hajime they also get faster in combat, which make even more impressive the thing.
 
Will probably get a decent way through, but probably will have to wait till tomorrow evening before dinidhing.

Based on what i saw so far:

-Eri instinctively dodged Shizuku's attacks, and did so in nanoseconds

-Kouki's stats are around 10k, which is from my memory around where a normal apostle is, Shizuku and co are mentioned to be 2x as weak as Kouki

-Suzu and co all have soul shell which is again stated to protect not just from soul level attacks, but also mental, Eri can affect them cause she manipulates the senses instead of those

-Shizuku has a 100 swords which she can telepathically control, pretty sure it was 20 in the WN. Each of these swords are as skilled as her, intelligent and also ignore durability via space hax

-Transformed Ryutaro can resist disintegration, is faster than Eri can perceive, has precog etc.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Will probably get a decent way through, but probably will have to wait till tomorrow evening before dinidhing.

Based on what i saw so far:

-Eri instinctively dodged Shizuku's attacks, and did so in nanoseconds

-Kouki's stats are around 10k, which is from my memory around where a normal apostle is, Shizuku and co are mentioned to be 2x as weak as Kouki

-Suzu and co all have soul shell which is again stated to protect not just from soul level attacks, but also mental, Eri can affect them cause she manipulates the senses instead of those

-Shizuku has a 100 swords which she can telepathically control, pretty sure it was 20 in the WN. Each of these swords are as skilled as her, intelligent and also ignore durability via space hax

-Transformed Ryutaro can resist disintegration, is faster than Eri can perceive, has precog etc.
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-Since she have supposed to get all the abilities and skill of apostles do to the apostification then it makes sense she have IR, though still is good that she have her own feat and support the fact that indeed those transformed in apostles get everything from them.

-I honestly don't think that the stats are really that reliable, they are contradicted various times in the story and along with the fact that they are only brought back in few moments of the entire novel, I prefer to ignore them.

-Soul Shell have spirit magic which is in control of the immaterial parts of beings, so is normal that even despite the fact that Soul Shells were made to grant soul defences they also grant protect the mind and grant the various other resistances they give in the profiles.

-Yep, she have more than in the wn, quite a good buff.

-Wait, precog? Shirakome will finally show his other transformations? Because I always thought it was stupid how he had six transformations but only three were ever show.
 
I think Ryutaro's wolf form can get precog at the LN? Since there's a wolf monster that can do exactly that, which btw what new monster form do you think it will show up?
 
He got the precog from the wolf monster.

Also seems Kouki attacks destroy stuff on the molecular level now.

Apostles also have regen.
 
Noneless21 said:
I think Ryutaro's wolf form can get precog at the LN? Since there's a wolf monster that can do exactly that, which btw what new monster form do you think it will show up?
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Now that you mention that, it makes sense that the precog is from the wolf form, he is imitating the wolfs with Foresight.
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Also seems Kouki attacks destroy stuff on the molecular level now.

Apostles also have regen.
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Neat.

Natural regen or with spells?
 
Natural regen, Kouki becoming an apostle boosted his natural recovery, it's not much, just low level regen.

My general impressions of the scaling here so far:

Kouki seems to be above the others, already mentioned the 2x stronger thing above, but in addition even with evolution magic, limiter removal, Kouki can still keep up with Shizuku. Limiter Removal has been equated to Limit Break from what i remember so i guess we can say Shizuku's base speed is now around 12xFTL.

Ryuataro has transformations which specialize in other things, in one he would be above apostles in speed, in another, he would be above in ap

Suzu's Inaba also seems very strong slapping around Eri, and also moves so fast to be a blur to her.

Anyway in the characters profiles gonna need like higher ratings, when accounting for all this stuff.
 
I'm still just in page 38 and damn, I'm already surprised with how much Agni Orkan was buffed in the ln, a lot of different special missiles, all the missiles have homing properties to follow heat, biosignatures and even souls, the weapon is far scary now.
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Natural regen, Kouki becoming an apostle boosted his natural recovery, it's not much, just low level regen.

My general impressions of the scaling here so far:

Kouki seems to be above the others, already mentioned the 2x stronger thing above, but in addition even with evolution magic, limiter removal, Kouki can still keep up with Shizuku. Limiter Removal has been equated to Limit Break from what i remember so i guess we can say Shizuku's base speed is now around 12xFTL.

Ryuataro has transformations which specialize in other things, in one he would be above apostles in speed, in another, he would be above in ap

Suzu's Inaba also seems very strong slapping around Eri, and also moves so fast to be a blur to her.

Anyway in the characters profiles gonna need like higher ratings, when accounting for all this stuff.
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Eh, I guess is still something.

Good thing for Shizuku, now her 7-B is really comparable to post evolution Hajime.

From what I remember wolf from was the fast one, the orc from was the unga bunga high ap, the trent form had light absorption to specifically counter Kouki and the other forms were unknown.

Technically from one of the recent crt she already should have a higher with Inaba, the dude is quite strong (he have in the afterstories a feat of opening a hole in the sea, which were around the zone in which the deep of the sea was stated to be 100 kilometers, so is a impressive feat).

Things look good this vol.
 
So, Inaba attacks are said to be almost as strong as Shea's and Eri who obviously knows about Apostle Fried, said even Frieds monsters aren't as strong as Inaba, the hell.
 
I mean, Inaba was actually always show to be hella strong after get buffed with the metamorphosis magic of Suzu (previously he was at the level of a monster from the floor 90 of the Great Orcus Labyrinth), so I'm not that surprised that he is tier 6.
 
Looks so.

Like in the WN Eri is only 70% of an apostle, so this would be like what? Like 8 megatons, while Apostles currently are 12. Kouki alone would be full apostle level, Shizuku, Suzu etc in their base with no amps would be like 6 Megatons, while in speed, they would be somewhere around 15 to like 25xFTL? If we take Eri as being 70% as fast i guess, though Shizuku with Limiter Removal being kept up by Kouki makes that scaling kinda weird, ap as well, if she is 6 megatons in base, she should be above Kouki in Limiter Removal.

Kouki being 2x as strong as Shizuku and co, while being able to take on Shizuku with Limiter Removal which is a 3x boost, again weird. Though these aren't exactly big multipliers so even if he was weaker, Kouki definitely should be able to keep up, that's 1 way to make sense of it i guess.

Kouki with his light dragons is definitely above everybody there except Inaba though, so he gets a higher rating with that, but not too sure how the scaling will work out atm, guess we will do that in the CRT.

About to head to bed now, will have to continue reading tomorrow evening.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Looks so.

Like in the WN Eri is only 70% of an apostle, so this would be like what? Like 8 megatons, while Apostles currently are 12. Kouki alone would be full apostle level, Shizuku, Suzu etc in their base with no amps would be like 6 Megatons, while in speed, they would be somewhere around 15 to like 25xFTL? If we take Eri as being 70% as fast i guess, though Shizuku with Limiter Removal being kept up by Kouki makes that scaling kinda weird, ap as well, if she is 6 megatons in base, she should be above Kouki in Limiter Removal.

Kouki being 2x as strong as Shizuku and co, while being able to take on Shizuku with Limiter Removal which is a 3x boost, again weird. Though these aren't exacly big multipliers so even if he was weaker, Kouki definitely should be able to keep up, that's 1 way to make sense of it i guess.

Kouki with his light dragons is definitely above everybody there except Inaba though, so he gets a higher rating with that, but not too sure how the scaling will work out atm, guess we will do that in the CRT.
Click to expand...
Will need to finish that part to give useful input, but in principle the fact that Kouki can still fight against a Shizuku with Limiter Removal isn't that weird, since the ap advantage she have over him (18 vs 12) isn't that big, along with the fact that his abilities and skill (since by this point he actually already is quite skilled) should also help him to lead with the gap.

And yes, the light dragon is a higher, from the very moment in which it was introduced the concept in wn until current afterstories chapter the dragon have always be the strongest offensive ability of Kouki.
 
I'm about 176 pages in and its 4:30 AM and I have way too many scans for Hajime and Shizuku. I think I'm done for now.

I'll weigh if you guys get stuck later on.
 
Just finished the vol and while it was really good, I'm disappointed with the fact that Kaori presence was almost nonexistent despite the cover, I also would had liked if Tio and Shia battles were a bit different from the wn, that they had some new abilities like Shizuku side, partially do to the lack of additions in the Shia and Tio is that I liked the Shizuku side.

Is already late here (3:00 am) so I will not talk about scaling and things like that until tomorrow.
 
Well, scaling chain time:

Apostles currently are 12M<<< and 12xFTL while 36M<<< and 36xFTL+ with Limit Break, right? So based on that Eri is 8M<<< and 8xFTL (27M<<< and 27xFTl with Limit Break), while Demi Apostificated Kouki (DAK) is equal in strength to an apostle (12M<<< and 12xFTL) despict not become a complete apostle do to the fact that his base strength and potential were already high and additionally he turn stronger the longer he fight, Shizuku, Ryutarou and Suzu stated that they are 2x weaker than DAK so their base should be (6M<<< and 6xFTL) but CheatMate give them a 2x amp so they become (12M<<< and 12xFTL, though more specifically since Ryutarou specialize in strength he should be a bit above the 12 value while Shizuku similarly should upscale the speed value), Overload Demi Apostificated Kouki (ODAK) make the gap bigger with his amp (60M<<< and 60xFTL), Suzu barriers can hold her own against ODAK and even the light dragon for some seconds (so her shields should be 60M<<<), Werewolf Ryutarou is fast to the point that even ODAK have problems following him (so 60xFTL<) and Ogre Ryutarou is comparable in strength to ODAK (so 60M<<<) and Wereogre have combine the strong points of both (so 60M<<< and 60xFTL<, I actually believe that the combination make the individual points of both form get stronger, this based in the fact that Kouki couldn't follow his speed at all and his attacks give high damage to ODAK), Instant Trascendence is equal to Limiter Removal but at short bursts and with it Shizuku can close the gap with ODAK (so 36M<<< and 36xFTL<<) but since there still exist a gap between them she need to use Supreme Ascendance to reach him (since Supreme Ascendance is basically the Overload/Supreme Break version of evolution magic she become 60M<<< and 60xFTL<<). Now, the Inaba part, while is true that it was stated that he was almost as strong as Shia and was above Freid monsters which would pute him at tier 6 (on top of have that supporting ocean feat in the afterstories), after read his parts and see his fight with Eri (in which while he overwhelmed her he didn't instantly stomped, though is also probable he held back do to not use his special moves) I believe that is possible to have a safe/low-end interpretation about his strength, the interpretation would be take the Shia statement as him becoming almost as strong as the previous Shia (since at the moment of the statement still wasn't show her tier 6 power) and the Freid statement can also be took as refering to the previous Freid (since Eri shut herself with Kouki after get in the Sanctuary she probably didn't knew the strength of Freid and his monsters after become an arbiter), so I propose something like 7-B, possible Low 6-B (stated to be comparable to Shia and Freid monsters, though isn't clear if it was refering to their Ehit war self's).

Edit: For a moment thought that base speed of Apostles was 36xFTL so the numbers were wrong, already corrected that and I will now correct the next post.
 
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About the tier 6 side I think their AP values stay the same as currently used, though their speed value change:

(Edit: After correct the base value of apostles)

Base Hajime easily blitzed Limit Break Apostles (36xFTL) to the point of kill two hundred of thems in sixty seconds, so this feat along with the fact that he and every tier 6 is above ODAK in every aspect they should scale above his speed (so base Hajime should be 60xFTL, arguably even higher but well), CheatMate Hajime party is 2x faster (120xMFTL), Riftwalk Hajime would be 12x faster than base and with CheatMate it would 24x than base (720xMFTL and 1,440xMFTL+), and then add Limit Break and Overload on top of that (4,320xMFTL+ and 7,200xMFTL+), that would be Hajime speed own speed while his fastes weapons like Schlagen probably should get a higher (since the power of Schlagen is based on how much faster is compared with his guns). Hajime party have always be able to follow Hajime with Riftwalk since he always use it to fight against comparable people (so Tio and Shia should be 720xMFTL and 1,440xMFTL+ when considering CheatMate), Limit Break Silver Apostles were fast enough to give troubles to base Tio and Shia (so they should be 4,320xMFTL+ with Limit Break and 1,440xMFTL+ without it, Freid should scale to them or potentially upscale a bit), then there is Limiter Removal Tio (2,160xMFTL+ and 4,320xMFTL+) and Dragon God Advent was stated to work like Limit Break but giving an tenfold amp (14,400xMFTL+ or 43,200xMFTL+ if is added on top of Limiter Removal which I honestly don't know. The 10x apply to everything so her other stats also increase with it), with Shia I honestly don't have idea of how she should be since she Level VII and VIII were comparable to Limit Break Silver Apostles but from that point outward she turned FTE to them (so something like 4,320xMFTL+ with Level VII-VIII and far higher with Level IX-X?).
 
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Yea i mostly agree with this, except where are you getting a 108xFTL Apostles from?

These multipliers are really going a very long way aren't they, kinda crazy.

Edit: Apostles scale to 12 megatons, and like >12xFTL, so 36xFTL is with Limit Break.
 
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Celestial_Pegasus said:
Yea i mostly agree with this, except where are you getting a 108xFTL Apostles from?

These multipliers are really going a very long way aren't they, kinda crazy.

Edit: Apostles scale to 12 megatons, and like >12xFTL, so 36xFTL is with Limit Break.
Click to expand...
Yeah, suddenly in middle of that I noticed my mistake so was trying to correct it, the first part with Shizuku side is corrected, now will edit the tier 6 side.
 
Disintegration got a lot more op this volume. The disintegration in Zero is weaker than present day, Oscur obviously analyzed it in the past so now present day, it has protections on it which resist analysis and mimicry.

Also Platinum Apostles are superior to Silver in all respects, their disintegration is stronger, charm mind hax is stronger etc.

Evolution magic now also gives the characters info analysis, Tio's whip does spatial attacks in addition to spiritual, Shea's hammer can do similar things, Shizuku's had artifacts helped her reach the zenith of swordsmanship, but her skill also played a part, so she is so skilled she can cut whatever she wants from minds, souls and stamina.

This is stuff off the top of my head, quite a few stuff to add.

Edit: Dragon God Tio also has a range of hundreds of kilometers, cause LN boosted the island sizes, from like 10km to 100km.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Disintegration got a lot more op this volume. The disintegration in Zero is weaker than present day, Oscur obviously analyzed it in the past so now present day, it has protections on it which resist analysis and mimicry.

Also Platinum Apostles are superior to Silver in all respects, their disintegration is stronger, charm mind hax is stronger etc.

Evolution magic now also gives the characters info analysis, Tio's whip does spatial attacks in addition to spiritual, Shea's hammer can do similar things, Shizuku's had artifacts helped her reach the zenith of swordsmanship, but her skill also played a part, so she is so skilled she can cut whatever she wants from minds, souls and stamina.

This is stuff off the top of my head, quite a few stuff to add.
Click to expand...
The fact that even Hajime with all his info analysis abilities and intelligence would need considerable time to analyze and replicate their disintegration already is quite op as resistance. The fact that their disintegration today is also stronger was also that I already assumed but is always good to get direct confirmation about that. Apostles also seem to have some resistance to memory reading/memory manipulation do to their apostle network.

Those things were already said in the wn version iirc correctly, though the charm looked a bit better in the ln (possibly because the translation in that part in the wn was weird)

The info analysis of the evolution magic is something exciting, now they can analysis abstract information do to that, like the residual memories in a corpse. The spatial bit was already there but the soul one I believe is something new of the LN, she also seem to be able to transform anything in a dragon while in the wn I believe there were some restrictions with it that made Tio unable to transform anything beside monsters, Shia is basically the same (though I wonder if her pushing the 100 km island down can be used as LS), and the Shizuku part similarly was already stated in the wn (reason of why I put her so high in the skill chain talked before).

The one who got more buffed however probably was Suzu, her barriers are honestly quite op now.
 
Yea Tio being able to transform anything she wants to into dragons is definitely more op now.

Speaking of the Island, i don't think its clear which Island there were on at what point, we know the islands range from a few dozen meters to 100km, Shia is able to destroy an island if her attack landed directly on it, now if its the 100km island, it's a good feat, but not sure exactly if it was one of those islands.

One of the Platinum Apostles also has a feat of cutting an island in half, which again could be a good feat, if it's the 100km island, though doing rough calculations, this only result in like Island level, so not gonna be an upgrade or anything.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Yea Tio being able to transform anything she wants to into dragons is definitely more op now.

Speaking of the Island, i don't think its clear which Island there were on at what point, we know the islands range from a few dozen meters to 100km, Shia is able to destroy an island if her attack landed directly on it, now if its the 100km island, it's a good feat, but not sure exactly if it was one of those islands.

One of the Platinum Apostles also has a feat of cutting an island in half, which again could be a good feat, if it's the 100km island, though doing rough calculations, this only result in like Island level, so not gonna be an upgrade or anything.
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Yeah I didn't really see any AP upgrades, which is fine, just a lot ability additions and clarifications on how characters compare to each other and especially Apostles.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
Just finished the vol and while it was really good, I'm disappointed with the fact that Kaori presence was almost nonexistent despite the cover, I also would had liked if Tio and Shia battles were a bit different from the wn, that they had some new abilities like Shizuku side, partially do to the lack of additions in the Shia and Tio is that I liked the Shizuku side.

Is already late here (3:00 am) so I will not talk about scaling and things like that until tomorrow.
Click to expand...
I agree. It was enjoyable but why was Kaori even on the cover? I read the Afterword and it seems like a weird choice but whatever.
 
Community_Gamer said:
I agree. It was enjoyable but why was Kaori even on the cover? I read the Afterword and it seems like a weird choice but whatever.
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I guess that he wanted to show the Fallen Apostle Kaori, which I understand because it's really cool, but then at the moment of writing Shirakome that he wasn't going to reach her part so to compensate he did the extra chapter focused in Kaori and her relaptionship with Yue.

Personally I think a more fitting cover would be Shia and Tio together as a tag team.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Yea Tio being able to transform anything she wants to into dragons is definitely more op now.

Speaking of the Island, i don't think its clear which Island there were on at what point, we know the islands range from a few dozen meters to 100km, Shia is able to destroy an island if her attack landed directly on it, now if its the 100km island, it's a good feat, but not sure exactly if it was one of those islands.

One of the Platinum Apostles also has a feat of cutting an island in half, which again could be a good feat, if it's the 100km island, though doing rough calculations, this only result in like Island level, so not gonna be an upgrade or anything.
Click to expand...
The fight took place in the 100 km island, it was said how they landed on it and how in that island was the big obelisk from which Hajime go to fight Ehit, additionally to show that Shia and the apostles still were in the big island it was mentioned how the apostles cornered Shia against the obelisk so she didn't had place to dodge.

The feat of Shia using her hammer to sunk the island dozen of meters could be a good supporting feat to the Class E thing from Meeres calc along with futher support the Class P feat of Zero vol 2 Miledi and specially the Leviathan, who got a lot stronger from the time of Zero and was said to be below Uranos on top of appear in middle of combat various monsters as strong as him.

The island cutting feat you mention iirc was actually that if one of the apostles (don't remember who) hitted the ground she would had cut the 100 km island but since in the end she clashed with Shia that didn't happened.
 
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So just gonna be some good range and possibly lifting upgrades then, since the ap won't matter.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
I guess that he wanted to show the Fallen Apostle Kaori, which I understand because it's really cool, but then at the moment of writing Shirakome that he wasn't going to reach her part so to compensate he did the extra chapter focused in Kaori and her relaptionship with Yue.

Personally I think a more fitting cover would be Shia and Tio together as a tag team.
Click to expand...
100%
 
Applying the edits to Tio I noticed that with the new 2x amp of CheatMate the ap of the characters actually is upgraded a bit and Tio reach new tiers do to the 10x amp of Dragon God's Advent.

Edit: Edited the original comment do to have done the math wrong before.
 
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