Arceus: The Jewel of Inconsistency

[Lavcore]

giratina's durability justification would be that it can take hits form dialga and palkia

 

[Lavcore]

uh........the altered Giratina forme image got messed up can somebody fix that?

ah nvm seems like somebody fixed it.

but they forgot to take out AE when they undid the previous edit and now giratina has AE type 3 again lol.

 

[GyroNutz]

I think there is argument for someone infinitely 2-B to be 2-A though, considering you prove you breach the gap between upwards to thousands of universes already. If you are infinitely that, it's reasonable to claim 2-A.

This already happened with Asriel iirc. The gap between universes is unquantifiable, so we don't even know if being infinitely stronger than a 2-B makes you more than 2-B. Same reason why infinity * Low 2-C is still Low 2-C.

 

[Lavcore]

bump.

 

[Lavcore]

bump.

 

[Lavcore]

Bump.

 

[Lavcore]

bump

 

[Ionliosite]

When everyone agrees but the CRT isn't applied.

 

[Lavcore]

@lonliosite

?

also bump, is everyone in agreement that we need avatar keys for the CT, LT and arceus?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Yep.

 

[Dragopentling]

Nope.

 

[Bowser-us]

if we don't need keys for avatars, we also need infinite speed for Arceus's avatar and possibly nigh-omnipresence for the true forms of lake spirits.

and why is not written any summary for lake spirits?

 

[Ionliosite]

Yes, we need the keys

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

this would give the avatars type 9, right?

 

[Ionliosite]

Yes, it would.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:ZephyrosOmega/sandbox11

so something like this?

 

[Silentpixels]

yo what happened to low 1-c arceus

 

[Ionliosite]

The Avatars would be 2-C, not Low 2-C.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

yo what happened to low 1-c arceus

That's a discussion for another thread see Kepekley23's last comment on this thread for context.

 

[Lavcore]

Nope.

why do you think they shouldn't have avatar keys?

 

[Silentpixels]

Nope.

why do you think they shouldn't have avatar keys?

because that would be too easy and straight forward

 

[Lavcore]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:ZephyrosOmega/sandbox11 so something like this?

Arceus should be 2-C and the powers should be split also that 2-B justification should be changed as that was avatar arceus

 

[Everything12]

Avatar Arceus shouldn't have: Abstract Existence (Type 1), Avatar Creation, Higher-Dimensional Existence, Large Size (Type 9), and Non-coporeal.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

i'd prefer to wait on that stuff until kep's Low 1-C revision is done

 

[Lavcore]

bump

 

[Ionliosite]

So when is this getting applied?

 

[Lavcore]

i guess when enough staff agree.

 

[Lavcore]

bump

 

[Ionliosite]

Ok, who do we have to call to apply this?

 

[Lavcore]

knowlegdeable people on pokemon probably

 

[Lavcore]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Knowledgeable_Members_List#P-

here

 

[Ionliosite]

Looking up, we already have Kep and Cal. Who else?

 

[Lavcore]

i think we need starter, saikou and gyro.

 

[Ionliosite]

Ok, we have to contact them.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Alright since I've been summoned I'll be the party pooper and ask the things I never got an answer to before.

So we used to have avatars and true form keys for the CT unless we decided that it wasn't a thing and removed it. Now we're doing it again.

And I must ask: Why is that? What are the proofs for the CT being these multiversal abstract beings that possesses many lower avatars?

This is not meant to be conscending btw, I'm legitmately wondering. Because outside of VSBW I've almost never seen this interpretation of the CT. Most other websites (or hell, just other fan circles in general, even non-vs debating) don't seem to consider the CT to be multiversal entities and just universal ones.

Basically I'm asking for scans, quotes or explanations for the CT having avatars of themselves. Because I never understood why we treated it like this.

 

[Bowser-us]

...And I must ask: Why is that? What are the proofs for the CT being these multiversal abstract beings that possesses many lower avatars?

This is not meant to be conscending btw, I'm legitmately wondering. Because outside of VSBW I've almost never seen this interpretation of the CT. Most other websites (or hell, just other fan circles in general, even non-vs debating) don't seem to consider the CT to be multiversal entities and just universal ones...

I thought that the idea of avatars came from the fact that Palkia and Dialga are the embodiment of space and time. Time fills the entire multiverse, which makes Dialga omnipresent

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"Dialga is the embodiment of time"

"Time fills the entire multiverse"

Yeah but like. We see many Dialgas. That logic only works if there is only one (in which case yeah it would have to be the embodiment of time on a multiversal scale).

I get that we explain it here via the logic that these are all just avatars of the greater Dialga. But like I said, I want scans/quotes that explains this Dialga vs Multi-Dialga thing going on, so to speak. Because it does sound rather baseless as it is.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Don't have scans immediately with me, but IIRC jewel of life shows the Creation Trio's dimensions being larger than the multiverse and the CT are also stated to embody their whole dimension, so

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeah but like. No.

The Jewel of Life shows a universe. It shows the main universe, Dialga and Palkia's dimensions above it, the Distortion World next to it and Arceus' world in the center of it all, which is indeed bigger than the rest of the other dimensions combined. But nowhere does it state that the main universe is the entire multiverse. Jewel of Life doesn't even acknowledge the existence of other universes.

If anything Jewel of Life contradicts this idea, as the entire shown cosmology is there to support the one main universe, with no mention of these dimensions having anything to do with alternate timelines.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

k well i tried