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Arceus: The Jewel of Inconsistency
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Should probably cut to the chase and directly ask Cal because theirs just been too many revisions of them to find that one thing.
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@Saikou
The avatar thing probably stems from that one epsiode of he anime where Dialga and Palkia are shown as masses of energy before being binded by the red chains
The avatar thing probably stems from that one epsiode of he anime where Dialga and Palkia are shown as masses of energy before being binded by the red chains
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"People took the place of Pokémon, and the opposite also held true. That interpretation could give us an idea about how our world came to be. A Pokémon is said to have shaped this world. Could that Pokémon be the physical form of the original spirit?"
This is referring to Arceus having an avatar. Following on from that,
"Hmm... The spirit came to be, and from it, time and space were born... That seems to point to Legendary Dialga, the Pokémon of time, and Palkia, the Pokémon of space... And they lead back to Arceus, the Pokémon that made them arise."
Note how it's now talking about the original spirit again, or the 'true' Arceus. Arceus created Dialga as time, and Palkia as space, which ties in with the Eterna City statue which claims Palkia is the creator of 'parallel dimensions', which we know refers to the majority of the Pokemon cosmology.
We also know that multiple 'Palkias' can exist in a universe in their physical form, like how Cyrus brought a Palkia to Alola where you can already find a wild Palkia.
This is referring to Arceus having an avatar. Following on from that,
"Hmm... The spirit came to be, and from it, time and space were born... That seems to point to Legendary Dialga, the Pokémon of time, and Palkia, the Pokémon of space... And they lead back to Arceus, the Pokémon that made them arise."
Note how it's now talking about the original spirit again, or the 'true' Arceus. Arceus created Dialga as time, and Palkia as space, which ties in with the Eterna City statue which claims Palkia is the creator of 'parallel dimensions', which we know refers to the majority of the Pokemon cosmology.
We also know that multiple 'Palkias' can exist in a universe in their physical form, like how Cyrus brought a Palkia to Alola where you can already find a wild Palkia.
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It seems to at least prove that Arceus is an avatar. But nothing about Dialkia being avatars of a greater being.
Also note that parallel dimensions does not have to refer to alternate timelines. Plenty of non-timelines dimensions exist in Pokémon.
First off there is no natural Palkia in Alola. Cyrus' is from his own dimension and the player's is from an Ultra wormhole dimension. Secondly I don't see how this help prove that Palkia has many avatars as opposed to the multiverse just having lots of Palkias.
Where are these quotes from btw?
Also note that parallel dimensions does not have to refer to alternate timelines. Plenty of non-timelines dimensions exist in Pokémon.
First off there is no natural Palkia in Alola. Cyrus' is from his own dimension and the player's is from an Ultra wormhole dimension. Secondly I don't see how this help prove that Palkia has many avatars as opposed to the multiverse just having lots of Palkias.
Where are these quotes from btw?
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It's from here (Sorry for the bad audio, I was unexperient doing videos using my cellphone lol )
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It's a guess. It's the theory that an Hiker has for the Creation Myths that that exists in the region of Sinnoh using the books and the plates as the basis for the theory.
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- Thread starter
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Almost every single myth or story concerning a legendary/mythical has ended up being true that same dude says that he thinks the 3 things binding time and space are the lake trio which is 100% accurate so i don't see why we need to question his guess, he also says that the plates probably belong to arceus which is also 100% accurate.
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Yeah, basically every time the people guess stuff about legendary Pokémon, you can bet they're right.
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Heh, well, this is the basic situation of the majority of every "verbally stated" feat on this wiki, tbf.
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It's more likely than the Pokémon writers are just lazy enough to just have random people randomly guess facts about the legendaries (which has happened) than anything.
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Tbh, I'm pretty sure it was done intentionally by the game creators just cause it sounds good to make it seem like a guess. Stuff like "it was stated/believed/ to" or "legends say" and etc are on nearly all the Pokédex entries. And I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that it helped all those sales.
if Digimon games and anime did something like that, I swear...
if Digimon games and anime did something like that, I swear...
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I'd discuss this whole overlapping situation more in context if I could, but I have bigger priorities elsewhere. You guys do what you gotta do.
If the avatar keys do get accepted, I'd put their tiering as "Unknown, possibly/potentially High 3A / low 2C / 2C" due to the inconsistencies like Lavacore stated earlier, which were still undeniably products of outliers and PIS, even then.
If the avatar keys do get accepted, I'd put their tiering as "Unknown, possibly/potentially High 3A / low 2C / 2C" due to the inconsistencies like Lavacore stated earlier, which were still undeniably products of outliers and PIS, even then.
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Mmmm, no? The Avatars should be 2-C via scaling above Darkrai.
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Mmmmm, well, Id say "at least 2C", then? That's if we're not gonna drag this dead horse regarding outliers and stuff.
Reminder that I still don't agreed to adding the avatar keys. Just suggestions if they do get added, anyways :/
Reminder that I still don't agreed to adding the avatar keys. Just suggestions if they do get added, anyways :/
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What dead horse? And how can something done by two of the four God Tiers of the verse be an outlier?
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Ummm.....Arceus getting hurt by Meteor-kun.
Mega Rayquaza practically stomping Giratina in the movie at one point.
I meant those sorts.
Mega Rayquaza practically stomping Giratina in the movie at one point.
I meant those sorts.
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I mean, Arceus getting hurt by meteor is such an obvious outlier you don't even need to know about the multiverse to know why it is wrong.
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Okay, good. So we're on the same page on that subject, then.
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Which also means Ash-Greninja is 2-B for fighting Alain's Mega Charizard. These upgrades are looking good >.<
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>High 3-A
What even
Like even in the downplay interpretation that the CT's scope is limited to one timeline, the creation trio has plenty of arguments for being outright 2-C.
What even
Like even in the downplay interpretation that the CT's scope is limited to one timeline, the creation trio has plenty of arguments for being outright 2-C.
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No downgrades to 2-C, just maybe an extra key.
The true Dialga and Palkia are the concepts that came out of Void Arceus (who is Low 1-C but I will still get to that)
The true Dialga and Palkia are the concepts that came out of Void Arceus (who is Low 1-C but I will still get to that)
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arceus vs lavos soon owo
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Kep will Original Spirit be upgraded to Void Arceus or are they completely different keys?
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In the games Dialga and Palkia are directly called time and space, or beings of time and space, also Cyrus in the manga states that Dialga's heartbeat is the flow of time itself.
There is also the fact that matter was born as a product of the wishes of Dialga and Palkia, and in the manga the Creation trio created by Arceus in the Sinjoh ruins share the same memories of the old Creation trio.
@Zeifyl
That was said by Cyrus.
There is also the fact that matter was born as a product of the wishes of Dialga and Palkia, and in the manga the Creation trio created by Arceus in the Sinjoh ruins share the same memories of the old Creation trio.
@Zeifyl
That was said by Cyrus.
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"Also note that parallel dimensions does not have to refer to alternate timelines. Plenty of non-timelines dimensions exist in Pokémon."
Such as? The Distortion World certainly wasn't created by Palkia, the reflection cave and ultra wormhole likely weren't even being storyboarded at this stage and Dusknoir's "world of spirits" doesn't fit the description of "parallel" dimensions. Given this was the generation of wireless communications, the meaning that makes the most sense imo is that these parallel dimensions are other games. If each of these games had their own separate Palkia rather than a physical avatar of a single, real Palkia, then it'd create a whole bunch of contradictions (e.g. Palkia is the creator of several universes, each of which were created by their own Palkia).
Although even if we don't accept Palkia avatars, surely each Palkia would be 2-B still seeing as each universe's reflection cave has a countless number of universes?
Such as? The Distortion World certainly wasn't created by Palkia, the reflection cave and ultra wormhole likely weren't even being storyboarded at this stage and Dusknoir's "world of spirits" doesn't fit the description of "parallel" dimensions. Given this was the generation of wireless communications, the meaning that makes the most sense imo is that these parallel dimensions are other games. If each of these games had their own separate Palkia rather than a physical avatar of a single, real Palkia, then it'd create a whole bunch of contradictions (e.g. Palkia is the creator of several universes, each of which were created by their own Palkia).
Although even if we don't accept Palkia avatars, surely each Palkia would be 2-B still seeing as each universe's reflection cave has a countless number of universes?
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it's how the refraction cave works, each mirror leads to a different universe, with those universes having more mirrors leading to more universes with more mirrors and so on ad infinitum
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Okay, yes.
Does an individual Reflection Cave have countless mirrors? I'm aware that if you start adding the recursions of other universe's mirrors into the mix, then it's infinite, but does a singular Reflection Cave have infinite mirrors?
Or let's put it this way. I'm in Universe A-0. I jump in the first mirror in Reflection Cave. Let's call that Universe A-1. I jump back to A-0, instead of jumping in any of A-1's other mirrors and going to B-x. I jump in the second mirror in A-0 and go to A-2. I jump back to A-0, repeat as necessary. Are there enough mirrors in a single Reflection Cave for there to be hypothetically A-∞?
Does an individual Reflection Cave have countless mirrors? I'm aware that if you start adding the recursions of other universe's mirrors into the mix, then it's infinite, but does a singular Reflection Cave have infinite mirrors?
Or let's put it this way. I'm in Universe A-0. I jump in the first mirror in Reflection Cave. Let's call that Universe A-1. I jump back to A-0, instead of jumping in any of A-1's other mirrors and going to B-x. I jump in the second mirror in A-0 and go to A-2. I jump back to A-0, repeat as necessary. Are there enough mirrors in a single Reflection Cave for there to be hypothetically A-∞?
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First, Countless =/= Infinite, it's just a really high number
Second, Palkia would have created the universes derived from those alternate universes too, like A-1-1 or A-1-2
Second, Palkia would have created the universes derived from those alternate universes too, like A-1-1 or A-1-2
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I'm talking about a Palkia avatar, so one individual Reflection Cave.
And also, they wouldn't have? A-1 would have its own Palkia avatar. A-2 would have its own Palkia avatar. So on and so forth. Every universe would have its own Palkia avatar, so either every Palkia avatar created its own universe, or you're suggesting that some unknown percentage of Palkia avatars are loafers and didn't do anything.
And also, they wouldn't have? A-1 would have its own Palkia avatar. A-2 would have its own Palkia avatar. So on and so forth. Every universe would have its own Palkia avatar, so either every Palkia avatar created its own universe, or you're suggesting that some unknown percentage of Palkia avatars are loafers and didn't do anything.
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I got lost on what's even left to discuss here.
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