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Arceus Hax Upgrade

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MugenRyu said:
@Kukui I kinda think your taking this concept thing too far
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Well Im fine if none of them work out for being too outlandish but how am I taking it too far? If accepted at all Arceus is getting concepts like Dreams and Mind because of some moves of a specific type. If that is the case what's wrong with brainstorming other ones? Im not even really pushing for them im just bringing them up to be seen and discussed. If they get denied im perfectly fine with that.
 
The concept of distance, Remind me what the hell space Is again?

The concept of damage? I guess every god In fiction Is getting this one as the concept of damage had to come from somewhere

The concept of absorbtion? I don't even know what to say on this one other than It just plain feels wrong
 
I agree with MugenRyu on this one. Don't take it too far. I know there's a saying for this, but i don't know it. I'll just say stick at what you have a chance at.
 
The real cal howard said:
I agree with MugenRyu on this one. Don't take it too far. I know there's a saying for this, but i don't know it. I'll just say stick at what you have a chance at.
Click to expand...
OMG, CAL SENPAI NOTICED ME
 
MugenRyu said:
The concept of distance, Remind me what the hell space Is again?
The concept of damage? I guess every god In fiction Is getting this one as the concept of damage had to come from somewhere

The concept of absorbtion? I don't even know what to say on this one other than It just plain feels wrong
Click to expand...
And I already said that these were vague and that I myself were unsure of.

@Cal

Kk I will. But what about the one with Casuality and Probability? Those 2 look like ones that aren't outlandish like the other ones me thinks.
 
Heart Swap is actually mind and/or soul manip. Tupsy-Turvy would fall under reality warp given it's function, and Arceus already has that. Encore fall in line with mind manip too, but not via telepathy or true mind hax. Is just that the pokémon suggest and convince it's opponent in repeating a move (which can be pretty broken if combined with disable).
 
How is Heart Swap mind/soul manip and Topsy-Turvy reality warping? Heart Swap specifically switches the change in stats. So for example, if one character has their stats increase by 5x everytime and the other does it by 7x everytime, it switches it between them. That sounds a lot more like Casuality as its manipulating cause and effect. The soul/mind thing is an added bonus because of Manaphy. Topsy-Turvy is the same thing, its manipulating the cause and effect of stats by making one effect work in the opposite way.

@Zexgen

Again, please take the Dialga/Palkia topic somewhere else on another thread. This is not the thread for it as its derailing.
 
You know what, nvm about my suggestions. At first I thought it was fine but maybe I am getting too much into it. So really I just now want to focus on the ones that were previously/have yet to be accepted. Im sorry everyone.
 
So ignoring most of my suggestions, the concepts that were accepted were as followed:

Normal, Electricity, Fire, Water/Ice, Grass/Bug, Rock/Ground, Flying, Poison, Steel, Dragon, Psychic, Ghost, Dark, Fairy, Magic, Light, Mind, Dreams, Spirit/Souls, and Energy/Aura.

The ones that havent been accepted yet or got a reply about: Life, Death, Probability and Casuality.

That's all. Since most of us have agreed to the upgrade, once we discuss the last 4 it should be fine to do the changes.

PS- There's something I've noticed given Arceus formed the Jewel of Life out of 5 of his plates. Wouldnt that mean he can combine concepts together and use all of their effects simuntaneously?
 
Well staff members did reply here and some agreed with the changes. Dragon is 50/50 right now. Rep was the only staff member who disagreed but has not replied in a while so im not sure if he's still against this. Plus this thread is highlighted as well.
 
@Kukui

The combine thing would be a given, really.

About Probability, he can manipulate it (lucky chant), but I don't think he can manipulate it's concept per sé. Casuality is certainly dificult, and I don't remember any showing of that in-lore, so I can't truly say.

Life and Death is almost guranteed, as per the existence of Xerneas and Yveltal, and also the Jewel of Life and it's powers.

Edit: I've forgotten about Giratina's Casuality feat, haha. But like Probability, I don't think he can manipulate it's concept.
 
I should mention that I also vehemently oppose this change for what Reppuzan has said.

@Kukui

There's such a thing as being busy.
 
With all respect, and not just due respect, what you and Repp are suggesting is that Arceus is a Zeno-esque tier 2 because he didn't use hax in combat while bloodlusted.
 
True, I wasnt thinking Rep was free to discuss this the whole time as he has other things he needs to take care of. But that shouldnt change that Lephyr, Cal and I have countered most of, if not, all of his points on why he disagrees.
 
Give me one legitimate reason that a bloodlusted Arceus didn't conceptually subjugate the Creation Trio when they were fighting him. And "It's PIS" is not a valid answer, because that would require that Arceus has had OTHER scenes where he's done it, but he hasn't. You can't say it's PIS if he's never demonstrated the ability to do it at any other point.

There's also how all the stuff discussed before has never actually been demonstrated by Arceus and saying he can control things like the concept of fire is pure guesswork.
 
I'm also inclined to agree with Reppu here.

We can't make assumptions as big as this. It's possible, but it hasn't been shown, and it's contradicted by the times when he doesn't do it when it is 100% an option. We need to rely on more concrete things, not guesswork, even if it's educated and feasible.
 
Give me a reason why Arceus didn't just bust the planet. And also, he hasn't been showing busting a planet, so obviously, he's bellow that tier.

"But he's the supreme being of the verse and others have shown the capabilities of doing more"

Exactly my argument. Mesprit, Uxie and Azelf can control them when combined, and yet Arceus couldn't in the movie for some reason, even when it was shown he created another Creation Trio and maintained them under his control in the Sinjoh Ruins event.
 
@Lephyr

Did you just ignore the second half of my paragraph? Arceus has never demonstrated the ability to conceptually subjugate the Creation Trio, so you can't call him not doing it PIS. Arceus not busting the planet is PIS because we've seen him do far more, but we've never seen him have conceptual powers beyond creating the Creation and Lake Trios.

They pacified the Creation Trio IIRC, not conceptually subjugated them.
 
Well for one, even if PIS isnt an option, Arceus is their creator and is drastically superior to them. He shouldnt need to stomp them by controlling their concepts when he can do the same thing with a simple Hyper Beam. It would take more work. Just because you have an ability does not mean you need to use it and most users of C.M. period never use it due to how overpowered it is.

Secondly, there are scenes where he has controlled them. The Lake Trio were given the specific and explicit ability to control Dialga and Palkia by arceus and the red chain can completely control both them and the lake trio due to the original powers. So im sure PIS can be an option, especially since if he did use it there would be no movie at all.

Third, him not demonstating it is not a reason anymore. He has never dmonstrated to use the 6 concepts he has now yet creating them alone is enough to have Conceptual Manipulation. So the same would apply to the types for the exact same reasons, otherwise C.M. would need to be taken away from Arceus completely and some here will go against that to the extreme.

Finally, unlike the 6 concepts he has atm, there is evidence of him manipulating the type concepts as pointed out above in the replies.
 
Pacified? Yes, because Cyrus, a human, controlling them to recreate the entire universe using the Lake Trio (well, an object created from them, which they don't need to do it) can be classified as keeping them in peace.
 
sigh Sadly I knew this would happen. You guys asked for too much and instead of getting an upgrade you may just get a downgrade instead...Should've left Arceus alone...
 
For the record, I'm not suggesting much. I'm literally only saying that Arceus created types, and so far I'm the only one who posted scans.
 
A lot of the current hax and abilities fans here say Arceus has are based on hype deriving from his position as "Supreme God". They have little to do with the actual evidence.
 
I agree that some people are extrapolating it (really hoping I'm using the word correctly). I'm just stating that the plates, an extension of Arceus, canonically predate anything including the trio (from the scans posted above), and that Pokémon powers are literally derived from the plates, in which also comes from a quote from above
 
As far as the outlandish stuff stated in the replies go, I decided to ignore and drop them due to being way too vague and ridiculous. So im going back to what was really originally suggested in the thread.

With all due respect, I haven't seen anything to suggest this is assumption when there's evidence to support this, most notably cals because of the lore of the plates. The only thing i've seen hold water here is "we've never seen him do it so he can't have it" and there are reasons for that, plus we accepted the 6 concepts he has now despite the same reasoning, so I don't see what makes the type concepts any different.
 
Also, since we are here.

"Aided in the creation of the multiverse, which contains an untold number of universes. For instance, certain universe's versions of the Hoenn region contain a Reflection Cave. The mirrors in this cave each lead to other universes, each with their own versions of Reflection Cave with more mirrors leading to more universes, and so on."

I'm positively sure that everything after the first sentence is pure bullshit. The Reflection Cave DOES have mirrors that lead to different universes, but it's never been shown that each universe has its own Reflection Cave where all the mirrors there lead to entirely different universes.
 
The type concepts are not in the same boat because unlike the other 6 he has feats relating to them and so far the "not absolute control" thing is mainly chalked up to PIS and Arceus being bloodlusted. In addition to him not being at full power at the time as if anything, his control is not absolute when incomplete. When he's complete it should be a different story.
 
At what point the lake trio has faced or ignored Arceus...

And we must also remember that the film's Arceus is incomplete.
 
You are chalking every evidence that Arceus is not as powerful as you think he is as PIS. That's really not a very good argument. I would be more inclined to believe the evidence that we have rather than do guess-work.
 
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