AP vs Hax: Mewtwo VS. Infinite

[Juron_Pilo]

This is silly. He has the power he can use it. But based on some spurious technicality you say he woln't use it? Why oh why? I'm struggling to understand the logic.

edit: meanwhile Mewtwo does not ever that I remember use Mind hax as an opening attack.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

I did present reasons. THree direct reasons.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M8zDzD90zQ - No clones against Sonic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu_nqhw0Tc8 - No clones against Avatar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPM5FGZNlao - No clones against Sonic and Avatar working together

"He was using the clones to fight an army" only further proves my point by showing infinite doesn't tend to use clones in personal combat. (Referring to copies of Shadow ,CHaos, etc., not mirrors of himself which are fair game)

What you call a "spurious technicality" Is just me showing what infinite actually does.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

The logic is very simple.

 

[Theuser789]

Nice try
Infinite used clones the first time he fought Sonic, he wasn't expecting to fight him in Mystic Jungle, but he does clone himself in the fight

His clones were fighting the rest of the resistance in Metropolis, the Avatar was a stragler

His clones were busy fighting the rest of the cast in a big army, so nice try but he uses clones

Congratulations, you just proved my point. When Infinite fights 1 on 1, he doesn't send other characters at them. Sonic was the outlier because Infinite was trying to, yknow, destroy the hero of the world

You are dense huh, my entire comment was showing he did use clones, it's just they were busy fighting other characters while he was fighting as well, not of those battles were 1-1, versus Sonic was the only one 1 on 1, also that last part is just your headcanon, I can just say Infinite sends him into a virtual reality since he did that to Shadow and Omega

 

[ShakeResounding]

Stop with the insults, please.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Nice try
Infinite used clones the first time he fought Sonic, he wasn't expecting to fight him in Mystic Jungle, but he does clone himself in the fight

His clones were fighting the rest of the resistance in Metropolis, the Avatar was a stragler

His clones were busy fighting the rest of the cast in a big army, so nice try but he uses clones

Congratulations, you just proved my point. When Infinite fights 1 on 1, he doesn't send other characters at them. Sonic was the outlier because Infinite was trying to, yknow, destroy the hero of the world
You are dense huh, my entire comment was showing he did use clones, it's just they were busy fighting other characters while he was fighting as well, not of those battles were 1-1, versus Sonic was the only one 1 on 1, also that last part is just your headcanon, I can just say Infinite sends him into a virtual reality since he did that to Shadow and Omega
No need to resort to ad hominem. It doesn't make your side look good.

 

[Juron_Pilo]

those are cases not reasons. You have yet to deduce why he didn't in all those(not saying its even true that he didn't use them in some of those(which he did)). He totally used it on Sonic. I havn't even argued that he'd use self clones. Mostly because I want to adapt his army to fight my opponent. But it would work. He has danmaku and energy constructs. He can totally spam Mewtwo out of existance. And don't say he doesn't use all of them because he can do that too. He demonstrates control of his clones all at once when fighting Sonic.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

those are cases not reasons.

So... Providing direct evidence isn't enough for you? If that's the case, I really don't know what else to say. You've been using headcanon and trying to claim things like Abstract Existence during the entire thread, and as I've suggested earlier, You should open a Content Revision Thread instead of trying to make arguments here.

 

[Juron_Pilo]

Stop commiting the fallacy fallacy. I said that because I wasn't sure what to call it. Didn't I correct that argument later?

 

[Juron_Pilo]

By definition abstract existance is a bit heavy for what I was trying to say but the point being is that it is now irrelevant to the conversation of the battle.

 

[Juron_Pilo]

What really bugs me about your argument is that this thread has been a line by line recreation of the straw vulcan trope. You throw one fallacy after another from that list, in order mind you, and you just keep saying without any basis that Infinite has some sort of honor code where he woln't use clones in a one on one fight.

 

[Theuser789]

Nice try
Infinite used clones the first time he fought Sonic, he wasn't expecting to fight him in Mystic Jungle, but he does clone himself in the fight

His clones were fighting the rest of the resistance in Metropolis, the Avatar was a stragler

His clones were busy fighting the rest of the cast in a big army, so nice try but he uses clones

Congratulations, you just proved my point. When Infinite fights 1 on 1, he doesn't send other characters at them. Sonic was the outlier because Infinite was trying to, yknow, destroy the hero of the world

Dude, I was being sacarstic just as you was as well the comment prior, don't be a ******* hyprocrite, especialy being clearly biased when making a thread

 

[Juron_Pilo]

Like.... line for line. Vulcans don't get sarcasm.

 

[Theuser789]

I did present reasons. THree direct reasons.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M8zDzD90zQ - No clones against Sonic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu_nqhw0Tc8 - No clones against Avatar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPM5FGZNlao - No clones against Sonic and Avatar working together

"He was using the clones to fight an army" only further proves my point by showing infinite doesn't tend to use clones in personal combat. (Referring to copies of Shadow ,CHaos, etc., not mirrors of himself which are fair game)

What you call a "spurious technicality" Is just me showing what infinite actually does.

Except all those matchs weren't one on one, he was fighting against all those people, without any clones it would be only him versus the entire cast

He used clones in Metropolis, they were just busy against the entire resistance in Metropolis, he was toying with the Avatar, and in Eggman Empire Fortress he also used them, they were busy with Knuckles and Co, here there's no one to fight them, only Mewtwo

Also don't accuse others of headcanon, this shit of "honor code" is pure headcanon, you are just being hyprocritical

You do know you got banned for similar reasons right? You are the OP, stop being biased

 

[Juron_Pilo]

Calm down man. If we can get him to break down his argument it'll fall apart. No need to get angry.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Oh shiz this match is still going on? I'll be darned.

Eh. I don't really got the time to deal with this anymore and no longer care who wins. I'll just reiterate my vote and hope Mewtwo wins off of it before I unfollow.

Mewtwo holds every advantage but pure AP. Smarter, better fighter, more versatile, more mobile, more hax, and will strike first. Given Mewtwo has the means to swap stats as well, then it's game, as Infinite has absolutely nothing on him.

 

[Juron_Pilo]

Cal would you stay? Infinite is smarter than you think. He has poetry and vocabulary to everything he does. He's already credited for being a calculating fighter. And though not listed he can fight hax with hax. He can use other peoples powers with creation for petes sake.

 

[Theuser789]

Inteligence is kinda doesn't mean much, Tails is super smart, that didn't help him, better fighter is debatable af, more versatile is just wrong, the Phantom Ruby literaly makes Infinite's possibilitys infinite, and a hax wall is pretty irrelevant, and why would ge even strike first?

Infinite confuses Mewtwo's senses then he gets one shooted before he pulls any hax, GG

@Juron

But like, I am calm, like, I am just saying what happened, but alright

 

[Juron_Pilo]

Perception Manipulation eh? Well he can't be countered at all if he does that. I'm just not sure he's ever shown the ability to permanently hax someone with that without the nullspace.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Eh. I don't really got the time to deal with this anymore and no longer care who wins.

I'll just reiterate my vote and hope Mewtwo wins off of it before I unfollow.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I'm leaning on TheUser's reasonings for using the sense 1st. Unless Mewtwo can work around it.

 

[Juron_Pilo]

Simply wait it out if he doesn't get sent to nullspace where infinites powers are stronger and ever present. In the games when using the sense stuff everyone always snaps out of it eventually.

 

[Overlord775]

Perception gets nulled by resistance to mind hax in most cases

also, it's a 4x advantage, so Infinity can't one shot, also Mewtwo can amp up

 

[Juron_Pilo]

Not when its virtual reality. The power isn't really mindborne.

 

[Theuser789]

In most cases, the Phantom Ruby has nothing to do with mindhax, it about your senses like vision, pain, touch, plus it affected people with higher mindhax resistance then Mewtwo

No, Infinite got upgraded, it's over 1000 times now

 

[ShakeResounding]

Perception gets nulled by resistance to mind hax in most cases

also, it's a 4x advantage, so Infinity can't one shot, also Mewtwo can amp up

Infinite upscales from 3.7 Ninatons, broski

 

[Theuser789]

Perception Manipulation eh? Well he can't be countered at all if he does that. I'm just not sure he's ever shown the ability to permanently hax someone with that without the nullspace.

He did that with Shadow and Omega in episode Shadow

 

[ShakeResounding]

In most cases, the Phantom Ruby has nothing to do with mindhax, it about your senses like vision, pain, touch, plus it affected people with higher mindhax resistance then Mewtwo

This.

 

[Juron_Pilo]

Theres an actual scale for mindhax now? And can I get a link to the supporting material?

edit: or perception manipulation. whatever.

 

[Theuser789]

Theres an actual scale for mindhax now? And can I get a link to the supporting material?

I mean, in terms of Sonic's mindhax resistance it's planetary via Dark Gaia and Black Doom mostly

Not like it even matters, Infinite's powers have nothing to do with mindhax, it will be like saying that because I can mind control I can make you blind or inhibit your pain for some reason, the Phantom Ruby works completely separated from any forms of mindhax

 

[Overlord775]

@User

How high is Sonic's ? Because Mewtwo vastly upscales to an island worth of pokemons

also right, 5-A Mewtwo is no more

anyway, all of Mewtwo's attacks petrify, so unless Infinity starts with the perception thing, he just gets turned to stone

 

[Juron_Pilo]

I agree I guess. But that leaves us with mindhax vs perception manipulation. I'm guessing perception manipulation is more abstract and happens first because of it?

 

[Theuser789]

Planetary

He does, it's his entire thing

 

[PaChi2]

"All of mewtwo's attacks petrify"

Now now.

 

[Juron_Pilo]

maybe we can say its a power thing then? Its only 1 on 1.

 

[Juron_Pilo]

If mewtwo can petrify with every attack does that mean you've decided on a build/version of mewtwo? Because that would make this alot simpler.

 

[PaChi2]

Deciding a version of a pokemon? What madness is this. Pokemon are composite always.

 

[Juron_Pilo]

Thats even assuming that planetary is his limit. He has the nullspace he controls. An entire infinite plane.

 

[Juron_Pilo]

In the past I've argued that pocket dimensions couldn't be planar level manipulation because kirby would be much higher than 4a but seeing Kirby's new form in star allies proves he has more power than we think.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Null space isn't infinite though. And pocket dimensions can be planet level.