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Geor,shion,Rm97,you,me(obv), I assume palito and the other supporters are voting for Dante. For anos i lost count.How many votes does this already have?
what can anos do against the fra train?What can Dante do against venuzdonoa?
Why the hell do you keep focusing on this? MGK's logic manipulation has proven to be superior to the laws countless times (literally his profile has Greater Law Manipulation).You sure no one was talking about it?
In this fight, the people's favorite wins, not the strongest (like battles on Youtube).Yeah, you can ho ahead and compile all the votes you want but the FRA train is useless. What can Dante do against venuzdonoa?
Maybe just make a page dedicated to Anos's Logic Manipulation, and what powers it has in the context of MGK.Snip
That's the point, people are obviously trying to say that Logic Manipulation is just a sub-skill of Law Manipulation and that it is weaker than it just so that Arnos can't do anything against Dante, despite Logic Manipulation itself demonstrating it several times be above Law Manipulation and even has the Greatest Law Manipulation.Anos has limited law manipulation, and Venuzdonoa has law manipulation.
Is Anos' law manipulation really only limited? He was able to use a spell to alter the basic laws of the test his friends took so as to make incorrect answers and even "I don't know" into correct answers worthy of 100% grades. Although that seemed to only affect the entity grading the test, but then he was only manipulating the laws governing the test itself.
Still, it seems there's still the issue of demon madness hax, and both of these two have layers of resistance to law hax it would appear.
I think they already thought about doing this once.Maybe just make a page dedicated to Anos's Logic Manipulation, and what powers it has in the context of MGK.
... Okay... I think we're not on the same page here. Rather than attempting to create a new ability solely for Anos, we should be looking into the application as fitting the existing ability, Law Manipulation. Unless I'm mistaken about how the spell manipulating that test worked, that was a clear case of law manipulation. If it can be taken to other areas, that is a badass ability, no need for new classifications.That's the point, people are obviously trying to say that Logic Manipulation is just a sub-skill of Law Manipulation and that it is weaker than it just so that Arnos can't do anything against Dante, despite Logic Manipulation itself demonstrating it several times be above Law Manipulation and even has the Greatest Law Manipulation.
Of course, in addition to these two CRTS about Logic Manipulation, where at no point did they agree that Logic Manipulation is a subskill of Law Manipulation, but rather just moved it to Law Manipulation because they both do similar things:
Law and Logic
Manipulating Logic is counted as Law Manipulation here. What I would like to ask if it is a stronger form of the ability than normal. As in, if one character of a verse can create laws which govern the entire cosmology of that verse and another character who can alter the most basic logical...vsbattles.comDT himself says that neither should be considered a sub-skill of the other, in addition to having people say that it depends on the context of the verse.Logic Manipulation should have its own page+Law Manipulation rewrite
I was going to express the opinion on this thread but I found it unneeded. Logic Manip isn't necessarily Law Manip, resisting or ignoring one isn't necessarily the same as doing it with the other. The description in the Law Manip page should at least be modified if Logic Manip isn't going to...vsbattles.com
Your personal reason isn't mean the verse power should follow that reason, by your logic, everything like CM hax, Law hax, Fate hax is under reality warping hax, thus resist reality warping hax allow one to resist every of its subhaxes.Logic, by definition, is based on laws. Logic dictates that you will fall and die if you fall out of a plane only because the laws of physics have dictated that any object in such a position will fall at a certain velocity and continue falling until stopped. Logic in and of itself is entirely built on laws. Thus, law manipulation is the deeper ability, making all the logic stuff somewhat redundant when law manipulation is already there.
It isn't attempting to creates an ability solely for Anos, his Logic hax is distinct from Law hax, just that not many characters will have link to the page, there are like 2 characters i know will have it, the power is pretty common, just those have it not really have profile on this wiki. Also even then, anyone can have ability solely for them, not just Anos privilege, if they demonstrate the feat... Okay... I think we're not on the same page here. Rather than attempting to create a new ability solely for Anos, we should be looking into the application as fitting the existing ability, Law Manipulation. Unless I'm mistaken about how the spell manipulating that test worked, that was a clear case of law manipulation. If it can be taken to other areas, that is a badass ability, no need for new classifications.
Arguably reality is not so much above law and concept but adjacent to them, even partly governed by them in fact.Your personal reason isn't mean the verse power should follow that reason, by your logic, everything like CM hax, Law hax, Fate hax is under reality warping hax, thus resist reality warping hax allow one to resist every of its subhaxes.
Much law hax counters logic, and logic manipulation doesn't have a page because it was rejected, so even this is hypothetical at best.Even then going by your logic that logic hax is under law hax, unless the character demonstrate the ability to resist law hax that shit on logic, then said character aren't resist it, period,
Soul absorption is technically two haxes, absorption and soul manipulation, wrapped into one.this wiki prevent NLF, resist a hax doesn't suddenly make you resist all kind of it application, for example, resist soul destruction doesn't mean you also resist soul absorption despite both of them under soul manipulation,
I think a lot of the time they do treat it like simple resistance to time manipulation. Time stop and rewind are generally considered stronger uses of it though.resist time acceleration doesn't make you also resist time stop or time rewind, despite they all under time manipulation
So, a new ability, that has already been rejected by Don'tTalkDT, solely for two characters, being argued for in a versus thread? Good luck with that.It isn't attempting to creates an ability solely for Anos, his Logic hax is distinct from Law hax, just that not many characters will have link to the page, there are like 2 characters i know will have it, the power is pretty common, just those have it not really have profile on this wiki. Also even then, anyone can have ability solely for them, not just Anos privilege, if they demonstrate the feat
He isn't reject it, there is a different between rejection and do not make it cause not many have itSo, a new ability, that has already been rejected by Don'tTalkDT, solely for two characters, being argued for in a versus thread? Good luck with that.
Wow wow, now i have urge to agree @Bobsican idea that we should remove all the resistance default given by Acausality 4, people nowaday somehow extend the resistance gained from Aca 4 into completely different thing that not related to the term acausalIn MG, logic is something superior laws and includes all the rules (the ones I remember from Dereck), but a type 4 acausal beins that is fundamentally outside of those rules, laws, and causalities is inherently unaffected by it.
This is quite possible, especially considering that the abilities Dante has resistance to can affect type 4 acausal beings. (You can look at the page, even the lower tier demons have type 4 acausality.)
Mehhh... To be more accurate.Your personal reason isn't mean the verse power should follow that reason, by your logic, everything like CM hax, Law hax, Fate hax is under reality warping hax, thus resist reality warping hax allow one to resist every of its subhaxes.
I'm looking for some relevance??? But I couldn't find it. Did you know that laws and causalities or "rules in the verse" (or whatever) work almost the same regarding type 4 acausality in Wiki?Wow wow, now i have urge to agree @Bobsican idea that we should remove all the resistance default given by Acausality 4, people nowaday somehow extend the resistance gained from Aca 4 into completely different thing that not related to the term acausal
Venuzdonoa's page has Fate Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Logic Manipulation all listed as separate things.Anos has limited law manipulation, and Venuzdonoa has law manipulation.
Is Anos' law manipulation really only limited? He was able to use a spell to alter the basic laws of the test his friends took so as to make incorrect answers and even "I don't know" into correct answers worthy of 100% grades. Although that seemed to only affect the entity grading the test, but then he was only manipulating the laws governing the test itself.
Still, it seems there's still the issue of demon madness hax, and both of these two have layers of resistance to law hax it would appear.
Not when Logic predates the fundamental laws, fate and concepts of reality, is superior to it already.Logic, by definition, is based on laws. Logic dictates that you will fall and die if you fall out of a plane only because the laws of physics have dictated that any object in such a position will fall at a certain velocity and continue falling until stopped. Logic in and of itself is entirely built on laws. Thus, law manipulation is the deeper ability, making all the logic stuff somewhat redundant when law manipulation is already there.
you contradicted yourself here, literally ou admit that what matter is which use of reality warping you resist or use, then process to do generalization fallacies, that logic hax and law hax similar so resist law hax mean resist law hax, so since you generalized both powers like that i want to ask, is resist logic hax allow one to resist law hax??You can do this with CM, law with hax, fate with hax... This is not always assumed. "What matters is which use of reality warping you resist or use."
But, some haxs work similarly in this regard, for example law hax and causality hax. Logic hax was seen as basically one level below or equivalent to these.
And somehow i don't see Aca 4 page give resistance to law hax by default, unless it is a sematically law of causalityI'm looking for some relevance??? But I couldn't find it. Did you know that laws and causalities or "rules in the verse" (or whatever) work almost the same regarding type 4 acausality in Wiki?
We don't give resistance to a character without them showing it even if a power somewhat is a subset of other power and character resist said other power, if they don't resist, then they will not resist, period, show me proof that logic also includes in law in DMC verse then Dante gonna resist logic hax, not generalised that on the wiko page logic is a subset hax of law then magically Dante get a resistance to what not even exist in his verseMuch law hax counters logic, and logic manipulation doesn't have a page because it was rejected, so even this is hypothetical at best.
No, this is not a situation where Concept type 1 > type 2 or Time stop > time slow. Time rewind or time accelerate, or time stop is completely different from each other, no such a thing as stronger use or weaker useI think a lot of the time they do treat it like simple resistance to time manipulation. Time stop and rewind are generally considered stronger uses of it though.
ResistedVenuzdonoa's page has Fate Manipulation
multi layers of Resistance, Conceptual Manipulation,
... Then make a page for Logic manipulation, if you can get past Don'tTalkDT having already rejected it.Law Manipulation, Logic Manipulation all listed as separate things.
...That is also built on laws, but whatever. Like I said, I can't even argue for upgrading his law manipulation from limited to actually proper without his fans diving down my throat.No, he destroyed the logic that incorrect answers can't be used to pass an exam, even made it possible for one to attain a score of 150/100. Where did you see anything about destroying laws there?
... That's what I get for trying to upgrade his Law Manipulation... Hostility... No wonder Anos vs the Llama became the new Goku vs Superman...Lemme say it again.
Resisted.Two different forms of passive Power null that destroys whatever power that tries to affect him.
That's law manipulation, which is resisted. And the pages say that Anos has limited law manipulation, and Venuzdonoa has law manipulation. Even if we treat the limited thing as any more than worthless, that's still two or three layers described.Dante's resistances are useless too "Greater Law Manipulation (Destroyed the Logic that a holy being cannot be affected by holy attacks thus negating it's resistance)".
Looks like most of it is resisted, and still no resistance to type 3 madness hax. Still voting Dante, but I said for now because I was open to listen, albeit not to be told to go **** myself. No wonder Anos' page had to be locked...Everyone voting Dante has basically ignored everything in Anos arsenal including Venuzdonoa that has a shit ton of layers to it's hax, hax Dante can't resist
Dante also has adaptive evolution, and I'm pretty sure making those assumptions is something of an NLF here.not to get into Anos who will resist everything Dante has after experiencing it once (sometimes he adapts without needing to experience the attack)
Great, make the page, even after DT said no. Until then, irrelevant.Not when Logic predates the fundamental laws, fate and concepts of reality, is superior to it already.
I suggested an upgrade to Anos' Law Manipulation, and politely asked for answers and got told I was garbage both times, so I grew sick of the attitude. Either way, there's still no resistance to madness type 3.Can like both side just stop the ad hominems??
This is getting embarrassing.
Uh oh.....idk if this also including me, byt if it is, i'm sorryCan like both side just stop the ad hominems??
This is getting embarrassing.
What???I politely asked for answers and got told to go and die, so I grew sick of the attitude.
I .... See. Then stop the debate and ask the next person to stop with that attitude. Other people will pitch in stop the bad attitude.I politely asked for answers and got told to go and die, so I grew sick of the attitude. Either way, there's still no resistance to madness type 3.
You reckon? The madness hax tends to be pretty nasty, pretty quickly. And demons all have some cheap reactive evolution. If he can come back even from all of that then it becomes a stomp anyway.And Anos also has his own RE, madness hax can't work for long, and even if Dante successfully strike Anos, he can come back
Okay, fine.I .... See. Then stop the debate and ask the next person to stop with that attitude. Other people will pitch in stop the bad attitude.
Don't get carried away in frustration please, others are here to help.
RE from Dante would maintain the status quo.And Anos also has his own RE, madness hax can't work for long, and even if Dante successfully strike Anos, he can come back
Yeah DMC is type 2.I'm pretty sure current DMC Concept is type 2 while Venuz is type 1, unless something changed and again i'm not aware (because busy lol)
Not an issue.Uh oh.....idk if this also including me, byt if it is, i'm sorry
I seriously don't remember where Dante RE could allow him to.....eh..........evolve his ability to overcome his opponent resistance, probably it lost somewhere in my memories space since i supporting too many verses at this pointRE from Dante would maintain the status quo.
I mean, it is on Anos page, same ability will not work on him twice and even if it work on him then Dante kill him, he will return back and resist it, Anos has Mid-Godly and High-Godly via Agroment, especially Agroment is a spell that take advantage of enemy attack as regeneration cataclyst, so Dante attack will actually help him regen better, and even if Dante do not attack, Anos RE will kick in, that is if we not taking Venuzdonoa in this, that sword haxes is passiveYou reckon? The madness hax tends to be pretty nasty, pretty quickly. And demons all have some cheap reactive evolution. If he can come back even from all of that then it becomes a stomp anyway.
More layersResisted
Which isn't anywhere on his profile or the Demon Physiology page plus DMC supporters already said he can't do anything against CM 1multi layers of Resistance
There's a difference between being rejected and not being useful. The reason the page wasn't created is because there's barely a handful of characters who have it... Then make a page for Logic manipulation, if you can get past Don'tTalkDT having already rejected it.
Keep it up and I'll report you for spreading hate. Say whatever you want about me (I'll eventually report you for the false accusation too) but keep the members of the community who aren't even here out of your mouth...That is also built on laws, but whatever. Like I said, I can't even argue for upgrading his law manipulation from limited to actually proper without his fans diving down my throat.
Like I said above, keep it up with the hate and generalization... That's what I get for trying to upgrade his Law Manipulation... Hostility... No wonder Anos vs the Llama became the new Goku vs Superman...
He isn't resisting anything with more layers than him not to mention there are 2 applications of power null (offensive and defensive). Venuzdonoa isn't passively stopping him from using his powers, it's passively destroying any power that attempts to affect AnosResisted.
More layersThat's law manipulation, which is resisted. And the pages say that Anos has limited law manipulation, and Venuzdonoa has law manipulation. Even if we treat the limited thing as any more than worthless, that's still two or three layers described.
Now quote where I ever told you to go eff yourself considering this is what, the 4th time I've interacted with you in this thread? The only person who has been hostile here is you but you can go on crying wolfLooks like most of it is resisted, and still no resistance to type 3 madness hax. Still voting Dante, but I said for now because I was open to listen, albeit not to be told to go **** myself. No wonder Anos' page had to be locked...
Carry on just don't be surprised when you find yourself in the RvR thread. I'm the one who made the mistake of engaging you again despite previously telling myself not toDante also has adaptive evolution, and I'm pretty sure making those assumptions is something of an NLF here.
Great, make the page, even after DT said no. Until then, irrelevant.
I'm sick of these people's attitude. Still voting Dante via type 3 madness hax.
Pretty standard stuff for low tier Dante, even Tony could do that.I seriously don't remember where Dante RE could allow him to.....eh..........evolve his ability to overcome his opponent resistance, probably it lost somewhere in my memories space since i supporting too many verses at this point
Just .... stop already.Snip
Probably gonna read back all DMC stuffs, i forgot a lot of them nowPretty standard stuff for low tier Dante, even Tony could do that.
Type 1, yeah okay, that's fine.Which isn't anywhere on his profile or the Demon Physiology page plus DMC supporters already said he can't do anything against CM 1
It's still a bit messy. Arguably it becomes a different matter of law manipulation in practice anyway.There's a difference between being rejected and not being useful. The reason the page wasn't created is because there's barely a handful of characters who have it
I should clarify that the go and die thing is said in China in lieu of the Western swear words. I'm part Chinese, that's where the cultural cross comes in. Still, I'll change it for accuracy's sake, as it clearly isn't taken the same way here.Keep it up and I'll report you for spreading hate. Say whatever you want about me (I'll eventually report you for the false accusation too) but keep the members of the community who aren't even here out of your mouth
... Maybe. Technically it's still power null.He isn't resisting anything with more layers than him not to mention there are 2 applications of power null (offensive and defensive). Venuzdonoa isn't passively stopping him from using his powers, it's passively destroying any power that attempts to affect Anos
In all fairness, you were aggressive. I realize that these discussions bug supporters because they read as attacks on the franchise, so if we can all calm down that would be good. I will however apologize as I admit I'm more reactive than I normally am. Much of my frustration is from other stuff, and you are right that I shouldn't be directing it at you, I apologize.Now quote where I ever told you to go eff yourself considering this is what, the 4th time I've interacted with you in this thread? The only person who has been hostile here is you but you can go on crying wolf
Already done.
Just .... stop already.
These are being directed towards wrong person. My attitude has been mostly apathetic until now compared to his. He's spreading hate towards members of the MGK community who are not even participating here not to mention the false accusations of "go f*ck yourself" or telling him to go die especially in the latter case considering such comments earn an instant perma ban
Just dont compare context from one verse to the other verse. One acausal is like this and other is like thatI don't know if there's really any point in continuing this thread but anyway...
In MG, logic is something superior laws and includes all the rules (the ones I remember from Dereck), but a type 4 acausal beins that is fundamentally outside of those rules, laws, and causalities is inherently unaffected by it.
This is quite possible, especially considering that the abilities Dante has resistance to can affect type 4 acausal beings. (You can look at the page, even the lower tier demons have type 4 acausality.)
There is no need for it to be written very specifically as "logic" in the verse for us to know that he has resistance to such abilities, and it is unreasonable to ask for this.
It's like requiring a statement that a space containing infinite multiverses is "infinite" in order to assume that it is infinite.
Read more carefully, I said that this only applies to Acausality type 4 because with such cases, wiki causality equates the rules in law and verse. Just being independent of the one also gives resistance to others.Why the double post lol??,@Georredannea15 is cursed
you contradicted yourself here, literally ou admit that what matter is which use of reality warping you resist or use, then process to do generalization fallacies, that logic hax and law hax similar so resist law hax mean resist law hax, so since you generalized both powers like that i want to ask, is resist logic hax allow one to resist law hax??
You can look again. A character independent of the laws takes type 4 Acasuality and also takes resistance to Causalities. The same is for the oppositeAnd somehow i don't see Aca 4 page give resistance to law hax by default, unless it is a sematically law of causality
It's because of things like this that bobsican is attempting to revise Acausality 4. It only gives unconventional to causality hax and fate manipulation, stuff like precognition and law hax are dependent on feats or how it's treated in verse.Read more carefully, I said that this only applies to Acausality type 4 because with such cases, wiki causality equates the rules in law and verse. Just being independent of the one also gives resistance to others.