Anos VS Dante

[Random-Helper323]

Immunity is lacking something or cannot/impossible for get a effect by something.

Like the inanimate objects being unable to be effected by fear, which Dante fear haxed anyway.

The scan literally say gods not have fear, why it even just a resistence when the scan literally say NOT HAVE

So the equivalent of the inanimate objects he already fear haxed.

 

[Fixxed]

Like the inanimate objects being unable to be effected by fear, which Dante fear haxed anyway.

So the equivalent of the inanimate objects he already fear haxed.

I dont understand what you mean in here. But i just explain if god in mgf have immunity not just "some condition" like you say previously

 

[Georredannea15]

Obviously Anos's best answer here is type 1 cm and logic manipulation, but logic manipulation is basically similar to law hax in the way it works and you have to be bound to a certain level of law and rules to be affected by it, but since all demons have type 4 acausality, and even resist abilities of that level, the only problem for Dante would be type 1 cm.


Also, fear and madness do not work in the same logic. Madness is basically being able to affect all emotions, not just fear and Dante's type 3 madness manip works passively. Resisting or being immune to Fear is basically not enough for that, my vote is for Dante for now.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I dont understand what you mean in here. But i just explain if god in mgf have immunity not just "some condition" like you say previously

Technically that's more a matter of lacking the capacity, and in high tier fiction is not exactly total immunity. It's awesome, but not unbreakable. Still, in this case it won't work, because Dante and Chen fear haxed inanimate objects, which also lack that capacity to feel fear.

 

[Fixxed]

Technically that's more a matter of lacking the capacity, and in high tier fiction is not exactly total immunity. It's awesome, but not unbreakable. Still, in this case it won't work, because Dante and Chen fear haxed inanimate objects, which also lack that capacity to feel fear.

No no bruh. I dont get why you brought other thing when i just talking about your argument that imply "gods doesnt really not have fear, it just like stronger person not fear weaker person". Yeah this:

Are you afraid of a microscopic ant?

 

[Tatsumi504]

Obviously Anos's best answer here is type 1 cm and logic manipulation, but logic manipulation is basically similar to law hax in the way it works and you have to be bound to a certain level of law and rules to be affected by it, but since all demons have type 4 acausality, and even resist abilities of that level, the only problem for Dante would be type 1 cm.

Logic manipulation is not law hax and type 4 acausality doesn't even give resistance to law hax unless stated. Logic is something clearly different law especially in MG both are nowhere near the same thing. What you're saying is basically along the lines of fate hax being the same as text manipulation or plot manipulation

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Logic manipulation is not law hax

By wiki standards it is.

It isn't categorized as its own completely separate ability and is instead categories as a subset or application of Law Manipulation because the wikis current definition of law manipulations encompasses the manipulation of logical principles thus Logic manipulation = Law manipulation for all intents and purposes

Law Manipulation
The ability to manipulate "laws" that automatically apply themselves upon reality, referring to rules, mandates and even fundamental logical principles/truths/facts that are the way in which a reality may function.

and this is also evident by the fact that even on Anos' swords profile its "Logic Manipulation" is still just linked directly to the law manipulation page showing clearly that even the profile reflects/conforms to the wikis current standards on Law Manipulation & Logic Manipulation

What you're saying is basically along the lines of fate hax being the same as text manipulation or plot manipulation

This is a false equivalency, these abilities not indexed as one within the Wiki itself though like many there is an intersect with what they can be applied to do but if you truly believe Logic manipulation deserves to be categories separately from Law manipulation then you can make a thread to change that but as for now in the present the wiki treats it like a subset of law manipulation so that should be the assumption going forward in this thread until a change is made

 

[Georredannea15]

Logic manipulation is not law hax and type 4 acausality doesn't even give resistance to law hax unless stated. Logic is something clearly different law especially in MG both are nowhere near the same thing. What you're saying is basically along the lines of fate hax being the same as text manipulation or plot manipulation

In the wiki, logic manipulation is actually lower than law manipulation and even math manipulation.

As for type 4, causality is equated with laws in the wiki, so someone who gets type 4 independent of laws also gains resistance to causality manipulation.

Note: Being completely independent of space, time, laws, or similar forces does not make you completely independent of causality without the relationship between these forces and causality being clarified, with it only being considered as evidence for an irregular relationship with causality otherwise.

Although this is said for type 5, a character who is independent from laws also has resistance to causality manipulation along with type 4, the same goes for the opposite.
So yes, type 4 acausality can resist this

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

What you're saying is basically along the lines of fate hax being the same as text manipulation or plot manipulation

I mean, it kinda is

 

[Huesito88]

I mean, it kinda is

Don't state that in front of Georredannea

 

[Georredannea15]

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Battle of fake sources

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Battle of fake sources

Fake translations vs fake scans but nothing as fake as your life

 

[Vietthai96]

can guy stop with the sematic that logic = law hax???, by that logic, everyone who can reality warp can perform all other sub hax of it, up to cm hax without needing a shred of evidences and in turn resist all of them, we determine ability via contexts, not how it sematically present on the ability pages, and even then those ability pages is a general guideline for us to look at and measure feat in verse, it not absolute

Anyway, i just wake up, what just happened??

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

can guy stop with the sematic that logic = law hax???, by that logic, everyone who can reality warp can perform all other sub hax of it, up to cm hax without needing a shred of evidences and in turn resist all of them, we determine ability via contexts, not how it sematically present on the ability pages, and even then those ability pages is a general guideline for us to look at and measure feat in verse, it not absolute

Anyway, i just wake up, what just happened??

Idk, I found the thread and it was something about plot hax vs fate hax

 

[Vietthai96]

all of these vs matches is cancer, ngl

 

[Dereck03]

Regarding the Logic Stuffs, we once asked DT about what it could be in wiki, this was his response. He also said that there is no possibility to make it a power on the wiki because there are not enough users.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

all of these vs matches is cancer, ngl

It's not cancerous enough tbh

 

[Georredannea15]

Regarding the Logic Stuffs, we once asked DT about what it could be in wiki, this was his response. He also said that there is no possibility to make it a power on the wiki because there are not enough users.

I remember a thread about this, but which one... I don't remember exactly, but i can say that, this hax worked like law manipulation, even to a lesser degree, but basically they were both can manipulate the rules on the plane of reality.

For example, extinguishing water with fire is both law and logic. This logic depends on a law.

Or the fact that someone who jumps from a height starts to fall towards the ground is the logical consequence of this, but it is also a law.

 

[Georredannea15]

Anyway, i just wake up, what just happened??

Man, you just woke up, calm down

 

[Dereck03]

I remember a discussion about this, but which one... I don't remember exactly, this hax worked like law manipulation, even to a lesser degree, but basically they were both can manipulate the rules on the plane of reality.

For example, extinguishing water with fire is both law and logic. This logic depends on a law.

Or the fact that someone who jumps from a height starts to fall towards the ground is the logical consequence of this, but it is also a law.

Law Manipulation can't do what logic does in verse nor what DT said in that example.

 

[Georredannea15]

Law Manipulation can't do what logic does in verse nor what DT said in that example.

 

[Dereck03]

 

[Georredannea15]

Potter sucks

 

[Tatsumi504]

I remember a thread about this, but which one... I don't remember exactly, but i can say that, this hax worked like law manipulation, even to a lesser degree, but basically they were both can manipulate the rules on the plane of reality.

For example, extinguishing water with fire is both law and logic. This logic depends on a law.

Or the fact that someone who jumps from a height starts to fall towards the ground is the logical consequence of this, but it is also a law.

None of this implies logic manipulation being a subset of law manipulation especially with the feats and in verse context.
Like I said, its like saying plot manipulation, text manipulation, fate manipulation are all the same power or 2 being a subset of the greater one however they're fundamentally different. Same goes with vietthai's analogy as you're basically claiming a reality warper can use any and every ability and resist them all as well.
You need merely look at the descriptions and feats on Venuzdonoa's page to realize what it does cannot be done with law hax

 

[ShionAH]

Dante FRA

 

[Dog3352]

Why are there so many attempts to nerf MGK's logic manipulation?

Jerga< Guardian beasts< Guardian Gods< Normal Gods< God the heavenly father< Gods of Creation and Destruction< Logic< Venuzdonoa

If Venuzdonoa has all these layers, while Dante apparently only has 3-5 layers, how exactly does Dante do anything?

If the only thing people have to say is "Dante has Fear manipulation and passive madness" and "Logic Manipulation and weaker Law Manipulation" then I vote for Anos (if Venuzdonoa really has those layers).

 

[ShionAH]

Why are there so many attempts to nerf MGK's logic manipulation?

No one is attempting that, its just generally Logic Manipulation is weaker Law Hax

If Venuzdonoa has all these layers, while Dante apparently only has 3-5 layers, how exactly does Dante do anything?

If the only thing people have to say is "Dante has Fear manipulation and passive madness" and "Logic Manipulation and weaker Law Manipulation" then I vote for Arnos (if Venuzdonoa really has those layers).

Well Dante side asked for some proof for those layers but I didnt see one yet

 

[Dog3352]

No one is attempting that, its just generally Logic Manipulation is weaker Law Hax

No one is talking about Logic Manipulation in general, but rather about logic in verse, which is definitely above Law Manipulation.

Well Dante side asked for some proof for those layers but I didnt see one yet

As far as I remember, the CRT on magic resistance addressed this subject, and as it was accepted, Venuzdonoa would gain some layers (as well as others characters).

 

[ShionAH]

No one is talking about Logic Manipulation in general, but rather about logic in verse, which is definitely above Law Manipulation.

By wiki standards it is.

It isn't categorized as its own completely separate ability and is instead categories as a subset or application of Law Manipulation because the wikis current definition of law manipulations encompasses the manipulation of logical principles thus Logic manipulation = Law manipulation for all intents and purposes

and this is also evident by the fact that even on Anos' swords profile its "Logic Manipulation" is still just linked directly to the law manipulation page showing clearly that even the profile reflects/conforms to the wikis current standards on Law Manipulation & Logic Manipulation

This is a false equivalency, these abilities not indexed as one within the Wiki itself though like many there is an intersect with what they can be applied to do but if you truly believe Logic manipulation deserves to be categories separately from Law manipulation then you can make a thread to change that but as for now in the present the wiki treats it like a subset of law manipulation so that should be the assumption going forward in this thread until a change is made

In the wiki, logic manipulation is actually lower than law manipulation and even math manipulation.

As for type 4, causality is equated with laws in the wiki, so someone who gets type 4 independent of laws also gains resistance to causality manipulation.


Although this is said for type 5, a character who is independent from laws also has resistance to causality manipulation along with type 4, the same goes for the opposite.
So yes, type 4 acausality can resist this

You sure no one was talking about it?

 

[RM97]

Dante FRA

 

[Palito266]

Since the debate seems to be about wether Dante's hax should affect Anos or not, i want to say something about it.

The Baseline for Empathic/Fear Hax in the verse is the Demon World and Minor Demons. Minor Demons and Trained Humans can stay within the Demon World, which is a 2-C structure with an infinitely deadly atmosphere, yet again, any kind of demon naturally and casually resists the effects that come within the Demon World, and Trained Humans can resist it somewhat.
Now, Demons themselves have an aura which they all resist between each other, and demons are something that simply lack the concept of positive emotions, and only have endless hatred, greed for power and trampling on the weak. They lack emotions such as love, but they also seem to lack fear, madness and/or desperation, they simply have hatred for others and greed for power. Dante can haxx these demons that lack most emotions, and can haxx people that resist the presence of demons, as well as haxxing their instincts (part of their metaphysical unconscious) and objects themselves.

Anos is dealing with a Conceptual/Metaphysical-Based hax that relies on Perception and Aura to work, it scales to 4-D (2-C) and can affect beings that simply lack emotions such as demons or objects, and is 3 layered.

 

[SYPHe5D]

Since the debate seems to be about wether Dante's hax should affect Anos or not, i want to say something about it.

The Baseline for Empathic/Fear Hax in the verse is the Demon World and Minor Demons. Minor Demons and Trained Humans can stay within the Demon World, which is a 2-C structure with an infinitely deadly atmosphere, yet again, any kind of demon naturally and casually resists the effects that come within the Demon World, and Trained Humans can resist it somewhat.
Now, Demons themselves have an aura which they all resist between each other, and demons are something that simply lack the concept of positive emotions, and only have endless hatred, greed for power and trampling on the weak. They lack emotions such as love, but they also seem to lack fear, madness and/or desperation, they simply have hatred for others and greed for power. Dante can haxx these demons that lack most emotions, and can haxx people that resist the presence of demons, as well as haxxing their instincts (part of their metaphysical unconscious) and objects themselves.

Anos is dealing with a Conceptual/Metaphysical-Based hax that relies on Perception and Aura to work, it scales to 4-D (2-C) and can affect beings that simply lack emotions such as demons or objects, and is 3 layered.

3 layered is a low ball but yeah.

 

[Robo432343]

there is a blog explaining why dmc's hax ISNT 4D

Demon World Energy being a 4D structure

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Palito266]

there is a blog explaining why dmc's hax ISNT 4D

Demon World Energy being a 4D structure

vsbattles.fandom.com

The very own blog: "Nope, the characters only have this scale of hax if and only if they bypass resistances at that level. While the demons don't have the DWE, they still resist its effects, which give them some 4D resistances, which means, characters that can hax them even with they having resistance from DWE, should scale."

 

[Robo432343]

The very own blog: "Nope, the characters only have this scale of hax if and only if they bypass resistances at that level. While the demons don't have the DWE, they still resist its effects, which give them some 4D resistances, which means, characters that can hax them even with they having resistance from DWE, should scale."

"Demonic Energy, which is the main source of power of the demons in the verse are 3D instead of 4D:

Since as show in DMC5 that makes clear that the Demonic Power (The regular one) comes from the Human Blood, which completely contradicts DWE and DE being the same since DWE existed ever since DMC's genesys, when Pluto separated the Worlds and demons getting fraction of powers from DWE, still don't make DE 4D, since they are getting only a tiny portion of that energy and not everything."

this blog is very weird

 

[Tanin_iver]

"Demonic Energy, which is the main source of power of the demons in the verse are 3D instead of 4D:

Since as show in DMC5 that makes clear that the Demonic Power (The regular one) comes from the Human Blood, which completely contradicts DWE and DE being the same since DWE existed ever since DMC's genesys, when Pluto separated the Worlds and demons getting fraction of powers from DWE, still don't make DE 4D, since they are getting only a tiny portion of that energy and not everything."

this blog is very weird

Blog is very very outdated, like 2020 era, when smurf understanding was less common.
Also some of the things are incorrect, DE is just 4D smurf hax

 

[Palito266]

"Demonic Energy, which is the main source of power of the demons in the verse are 3D instead of 4D:

Since as show in DMC5 that makes clear that the Demonic Power (The regular one) comes from the Human Blood, which completely contradicts DWE and DE being the same since DWE existed ever since DMC's genesys, when Pluto separated the Worlds and demons getting fraction of powers from DWE, still don't make DE 4D, since they are getting only a tiny portion of that energy and not everything."

this blog is very weird

I don't think the source of DE or DWE is the Human Blood, mainly because that would mean No Demon had power back when the Ray of Light didn't exist.
It's just one of the ways in which the demons can gain allat of power real quick, not the origin of power itself.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Anos is dealing with a Conceptual/Metaphysical-Based hax that relies on Perception and Aura to work, it scales to 4-D (2-C)

4D is 4D, it being tiered to a 2C or 2A tier is irrelevant

and can affect beings that simply lack emotions such as demons or objects, and is 3 layered.

Mister made a blog about a hundred layers, I disagree but the baseline is the whole "fodder < DW < low tiers < mid tiers < High tiers < God tiers < Dante"

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Dante fra