Law and Logic

[Andytrenom]

Manipulating Logic is counted as Law Manipulation here. What I would like to ask if it is a stronger form of the ability than normal.

As in, if one character of a verse can create laws which govern the entire cosmology of that verse and another character who can alter the most basic logical principles of the same verse, would the latter be more powerful than the former or would they be equal?

 

[AKM sama]

Creating and altering a given law should basically be equivalent. But creating laws that govern the entire cosmology should be much impresive than altering basic laws imo.

 

[Andytrenom]

Bump.

 

[Skalt711]

Assuming that the law manipulation user and logic manipulation user are on the same level of realm (aka no existential hierarchical superiority), I suppose that law manipulation is more potent.

Logic manipulation is a power that allows the user to manipulate logic and its rules. It means that the user can configurate the possibility and impossibility, or more widely the value of logic, of certain events. For example, you can make your phone's existence to be impossible, thus effectively erasing it from existence and putting a ban to its further existence. Can it restored? No. Can you remake it? Probably no.

Law manipulation allows you to manipulate the laws, the systems of rules, to a supernatural extent. Logic is also a set of rules, so a skilled law manipulator should be capable of using logic manipulation.

I'm not well aware about these abilities, but I've tried to answer to your question.

 

[Wokistan]

Depends on the context of the verse, really.

 

[Antoniofer]

Both powers have similar effects, only thing it change is how the effect is performed: Law Manipulation is basically Causality Manipulation limited to laws, defining what happens when a conditions is met; Logic Manipulation bends rules, defining what is possible and what is not.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Logic is just one kind of law. You could argue that it's more "primal" than other types of law (It's easier to break the laws of physics than break logic), but Law Manip can cover it as well. Logic Manip would be a subset of Law Manip in this sense.

 

[Eficiente]

I personally think that Logic Manip should have its own page. When I see Logic Manip in verses such as The Fairly OddParents! I don't say, "Oh that's Law Manip".

Edit: An example would be when Timmy wished to do the opposite of what everybody says as a normal thing in reality. It is a stretch to call that Law Manip. He didn't just created a law to do that, he just altered logic.

 

[Elizhaa]

Logic Manipulation is under Mathematics Manipulation. I don't think Logic Manipulation was ever Law Manipulation, to be honest, in our Powers & Abilities Pages. This confusion is probably from Power Listing wiki Logic Manipulation page which new users seems to use for understanding guideline rather than reading our Powers & Abilities Pages, from my own experiences.

• Logic Manipulation: Since mathematics builds upon, includes and extends logic, changing mathematics can have an effect on the underlying logical concepts. For example by creating a mathematical contradiction and through the principle of "ex falso sequitur quodlibet" the validity and usefulness of logic could be undermined.

 

[Skalt711]

@Elizhaa

Logic manipulation can still be applied under law manipulation because a potent enough mathematics manipulation allows you to manipulate logic, while mathematics is also a system of laws, which means that it can be affected by law manipulation. By the way, nice point!

 

[Antoniofer]

Is difficult to relate Logic Manipulation to something, everything have its logic: maths, physics, laws, occultism, it can control what is possible and what is not. At the end is just another variation of Reality Warping, although Logic Manipulation can straight out changes the facets of reality rather than simply bend them.

 

[Skalt711]

Let's say that law, causality and logic are related to each other.

 

[Skalt711]

I have thought about law and logic potency and I can say that while law manipulation covers logic manipulation, so does it to law manipulation.

To a final conclusion, I assume that law and logic manipulation are roughly equal in potency.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Most high end abilities can emulate each other if one has them at a high enough extent.

That said I wouldn't view any of the named abilities as a sub-ability of the other.

(And manipulating logic should really not be listed as mathematics manipulation, unless it is done via mathematics manipulation.)

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I personally believe Logic Manipulation would just be a higher form of Law Manipulation. Logical principles are extremely fundamental and would be harder to break than other scientific laws.