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Aizen's space-time resistance.

Rocker1189

Rocker1189

14,947
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Basically it makes no sense.

The Kototsu does forces people on the wrong time line by essentially physically chasing them off course. Aizen simply kill it. How does that make you resistance to space-time manip?
 
Good point. It seems that the Kototsu doesn't get a chance to effect Aizen since he killed it.

I believe the resistance should be removed.
 
and he got affected anyway, simply not by much since he killed it before being chased too far off course.
 
I dont understand the issue. Anything that is even near it gets thrown to a different time period by hundreds of years, let alone what it actually interacts with. For the Ryoka, it took Urahara's prep and a causality manipulating shield to nerf it to just days.

Aizen should have been BFRd by hundreds of years but was entirely unaffected despite coming into contact with it.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sfi8qfTkhLA/Vi73cBXLyxI/AAAAAAABI5E/Mpm2Obgeq2E/s16000/0407-002.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gy2onx4TDgU/Vi73c6Los8I/AAAAAAABI5U/Z3ljnEb7hsc/s16000/0407-003.jpg

Note he didn't attack it, he just stood and let it hit him with the only change being he exited the Dangai a bit off from where it was intended to open up. If you read the page of their exit though, when Gin says its Aizen's fault they arrived in the wrong place, he is suspicious of Gin, before just accepting it.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZgL7CZ_SH7g/Vi73iRWxtaI/AAAAAAACKN0/k-DcDC09g1M/s16000/0407-014.jpg

This is relevant as Aizen was expecting his betrayal later on and wanted to see how he would do it. Time BFR doesn't have anything to do with dimensional exits getting moved after all, the Ryoka arrived at the wrong time but their exit was still correct.
 
Non of ithus matters because the way the kototsu bfrs people is by literally chasing them off course. Aizen destroyed it and did not get chased by it, that is why he did not have is course changed much.

As Sigurd himself provided. What we see it aizen standing there and killing it. He was never chased so the fact his course change at all shows the complete opposite. Also if he was resistant to it Gin. Should have been surprised that they were only shifted a bit. But that did not happen.
 
"Anything that is even near it gets thrown to a different time period by hundreds of years,"

Gonna need proof that just getting near it does this. This is not mentioning that as far as I remember it is pretty random.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Should note that the 3rd Databook states the Kototsu governs time and space in the Dangai and that Aizen's new power was beyond the Kototsu.
Click to expand...
This means nothing, it just means he was stronger than it.
 
Here is Isshin saying people who get caught by Kototsu get BFRd through time. The Ryoka didn't get caught but were still affected regardless by being near it.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AsPT4sZ_L_Q/Vi73w55QnWI/AAAAAAABI_0/c0Axw7AA50A/s16000/0408-005.png

Here is Yoruichi saying that them being chased by the Kototsu moved them days when it should have been hundreds of years if not for Urahara's tech according to Isshin.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Umd0I7WX3q4/Vi8BcvEHIWI/AAAAAAABMKk/MwXtdjUhgao/s16000/0132-016.jpg

Before you argue the semantics, the Kototsu only influences what is near it or else the Senkaimon/Dangai can't be used any time it is moving through the Dangai which is every few days as everything inside would technically be being "chased" which is a pretty big deal as it keeps shinigami from doing anything in the case of emergencies. The fact that it only affects the "chased" beings near it implies it is due to proximity which is also supported by the fact that contact makes the penalty far worse.
 
Nothing you posted there proved that being actually touched by it affects you. What you did was prove my entire point. They should have been thrown hundreds of years apart since it chased them but Urahara's tech saved them from the effect. The fact that Azen simply stood there and did not actually get chased in the first place yet was still affected means that he is not resistant.

I don't know what semantics you are talking about, my oint is if you run from it you would be thrown off the path you are trying to follow which is what was to the BFR not being hit by it.

Also as for this resistance why do people bring it up like it is worth anything against abilities like time stop and proper time manipulation. At best this is resistance to BFR and even then it still has not been proven to be resisyance at all since all he did was kill it.
 
Also use the Viz translations which supports what I say: https://*****************/read-online/Bleach-chapter-408-page-5.html

You use the Viz for one and the fan translation for the other one which just so happens to support what you are saying.

It specifically says if it chased you, not caught you.
 
how does "chasing" after anyone Bfr them,lol?

you wanna say just by running from kototsu people run through time itself?

infinite speed bleach characters when?
 
Nice argument where you completely miss the point. It is almost like you don't know bleach.

The Dangai is specifically a dimension where time is extremely dense meaning that moving through it means literally moving through time. This means if you are chased when trying to get to a certain time and placed you would be thrown off course to a different time and space. This is literally explained in the manga.
 
take it easy,my agressive dude,i've just tried to make a joke

idc about aizen's st resistance,i've never knew he had one to begin with
 
Its like you dont understand what being caught means. Have you ever played tag? Chasing after your friends doesnt mean you caught them, physically tagging them, ie make contact, is catching them.

The semantics which I have seen people jump to arguing is the difference by being near and being chased. Seemed pretty obvious given my following paragraph on the two.

I don't know why people bring it up but it is a feat for resisting temporal BFR and age manip. Read the first scan again.

"Use the viz scans which supports my narrative"

Are you kidding me? We use what is more accurate, not what helps you. If you have the raws, by all means, get it translated by someone on the site. Just gonna point out that Isshin saying chased and caught are on the same page, so why would someome translating make a distinction unless there is one?

I got both from the same site so lets not try say I use what fits my narrative. Got to ********* and read the chapters and pages for your self. Chapters 132, 407, 408.
 
Except it never says getting caught in the official translation and specifically says getting chased.

I don't care a out near or chased my point is if you see it and it has forced you to run you are getting chased.

Now age manipulation? Wtf since when did it have age manipulation, and it is only resisting temporal BFR if again you get chased and still end up exactly in the time and place you want to be. It says you would be ripped apart from the flow of time, not that you would get aged to death. You can't get aged manipulation from that.

Well we put Viz above others unless there is raws so by all means get the raws but I am sticking with the Viz until otherwise. Also you say why is there distinctions in translations as if that is not normal for a lot of wrong translations in every manga.

Yeah and I got both from the Viz translations, the one you got from the Viz translation also says chased not caught. So again you have no proof of that.
 
MetalGearRaiden said:
take it easy,my agressive dude,i've just tried to make a joke

idc about aizen's st resistance,i've never knew he had one to begin with
Click to expand...
I was not being agressive and it was a bad joke to be honest.

He should not have it.
 
Then get the raws translated.

See above.

Its like you didnt read the pages. It kills people by forcing them through time so much their body cant keep up and ages too fast, killing them.

Thats certainly the first I have ever heard of that so I guess we will need to wait for IMade or USklaverei who are more likely to have the raws.

Of course the Yoruichi scan says chased, thats what happened. Isshin is pointing out what happened and how bad it could have been which is why he says caught.
 
Err no I would stick with Viz over anything else as we do with every manga unless we have raws at hand.

See above

No it simply says they are killed by the violent passage of time, nothing about age.

If this is the first you have e heard then that is certainly weird. Viz is official translations thus is taken above fan translations.

Except he did not he specifically says it was not as bad for the same reasons Yoruichi said, they had Urahara's tech.
 
beside the OP and perhaps Damage3245 , everyone dissagree , me included.

The databook say that the kototsu govern time and space in the dangai and that aizen's power was beyond it.

the argument that aizen got affected from the fact that gin and him arrived a bit off course of the location aizen thought they were going can easily be explained as gin trying to gain some time( as he is trying to kill aizen) and the argument is supported this page were we see aizen suspicious of gin's explanation :

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZgL7CZ_SH7g/Vi73iRWxtaI/AAAAAAACKN0/k-DcDC09g1M/s16000/0407-014.jpg

it is also gin that openned the portal to begin with with the probably control of where they should arrive.


TLDR : no conclusive argument/proof from the opposition have been presentedto debunk aizen's space time resistance.
 
Again what the databook says there simply means that aizen is more powerful.

That does not matter what we know is that aizen was never chased by the kototsu therefore he was never affected in the first place.

No you have to prove that getting hit by the kototsu shifts you off course which you guys have not proven and then given him resistance based on absolutely nothing.

The argument and proof provided is more than enough, to be thrown off course you have to be chased by the kototsu, this is proven in the official Viz scans provided above, this did not happen to aizen as he simply killed it. Therefore he was never affected in the first place.
 
Whether the resistance should stay or not, being time dumped into differents point in time isnt space-time hax. Thats just temporal BFR.

So even if the resistance is to stay, it should be changed to resisting temporal bfr, not space-time hax.
 
Xerkser500 said:
Whether the resistance should stay or not, being time dumped into differents point in time isnt space-time hax. Thats just temporal BFR.
So even if the resistance is to stay, it should be changed to resisting temporal bfr, not space-time hax.
Click to expand...
it's not just temporal bfr as the body still experience the gap in time . yoruichi said that it was only thanks to urahara tech that ichigo and friends survived as otherwise their body would have experienced the hundreds of years instantly and died.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Where did Yoruchi say that if you can show me please?
Plus, im not sure that thats exactly age manipulation for the Kototsu. The Kototsu isnt the one whos actively aging them, its them being thrown through time thats applying the aging effect. Unless the Kototsu cant use age hax for anything else but that specifically.
Click to expand...
my bad , it was ishin that said it : https://www.***********.net/bleach/408/8
 
Being chased by Kototsu is not enough to be sent off course, he needs to get in touch with the thing to do that.

As we see here, Ichigo and his team were only affected because Orihime's Santen Kesshun made contact with Kototsu, if they could have crossed without contacting Kototsu, they would not have been affected.
 
No they simply flew out of it, it is directly stated by both isshi and Yoruichi that being chased by the Kototsu flings you off course.

Yeah if they were never chased by the kototsu forcing them off course they would have been fine.

Aizen was never chased by the kototsu thus there was no attempt to fling him off course thus he should not have resistance to anything kototsu does and certainly not have resistance to space-time manip.
 
They did not fly, Orihime contacted Kototsu and all were sent.

It makes no sense at all.
Kototsu was coming toward Aizen and Gin. Gin then mentions that they must go , since they cannot deal with Kototsu in one way or another they were being chased, so Gin trying to escape would make no difference, as just being chased would make him go away. your course.
 
USklaverei said:
They did not fly, Orihime contacted Kototsu and all were sent.
It makes no sense at all.
Kototsu was coming toward Aizen and Gin. Gin then mentions that they must go , since they cannot deal with Kototsu in one way or another they were being chased, so Gin trying to escape would make no difference, as just being chased would make him go away. your course.
Click to expand...
Fly as in fell out, of course they did not literally fly...

But they were not, because they never moved off course, the chasing point is that it forces you to move. If you dont move you are not affected.
 
I don't see how this counters Aizen's resistance.

He dampened the effects of the Kototsu against him therefore resistance.Its incredibly easy to understand. Just being near the Kototsu can effect you.
 
You did not understand my point.
Suppose at that time, Aizen had heard Gin and they both started running away from Kototsu, that would be a chase, so they would be affected one way or another, so why would Gin tell them to run away ? If he knew it would do no good?
 
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