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Ainz Ooal Gown vs Kishin Asura

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Ainz is resistant to mental manipulation and even if he didn't, he's flat out immune to overt emotional changes. Extreme fear counts as an emotion and as such, would get negated by the world system or whatever. Plus Ainz has a ring that flat out negates Behavioral Manipulation. Matter Manipulation seems to take too long to do anything.

Meanwhile, Ainz just uses Grasp Heart.

Both at their peaks? That'd mean Ainz has his Death Aura automatically on, in which case he just warps right next to Kishin and Kishin dies immediately. Kishin is too much of a threat for Ainz to play around with (Especially since he'd be manipulating matter around them).
 
That's just resistance though. He'd need to resist it on the scale Kishin Asura has shown (a few hundred people for his passive, planetary for his active).

Also given Kishin's regen and Type 2 immortality, I doubt Grasp Heart would be enough to kill him. He didn't even die with no blood at all.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
Also given Kishin's regen and Type 2 immortality, I doubt Grasp Heart would be enough to kill him. He didn't even die with no blood at all.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure that's not how we treat Death Manipulation. I recall that Ainz has definitely killed regenerators with instant death effects before (and I'm pretty sure at least some of them have Low-Mid Regenerationn, I think). And it has already been established that Grasp Heart does more than just crushing the heart, such as inflicting instant death on the target in a more abstract-like way like what most of his death spells does (just causing them to die for no discernible reason at all, from what I can recall). And I'm pretty sure Type 2 Immortality is not saving you from that type of Death Manipulation (Type 2 Immortality isn't like Type 5 or 7, where you have resistance due to not being considered as a conventional living being by default).

However, I'm just here to refute that statement, so I'm not voting yet. Just to let you know.
 
I vote for Ainz Ooal Gown because:

He can lead with time stop and than:

  • Gravity Maelstrom:If it hits Kishian Asura, the intense gravity will make his body collapse in on itself, negating durability.
  • Reality slash: It will help since it can ignore durbality and cut Kishian like a slice of pizza.
  • Body of Effulgent Beryl can help a lot from Kishin´s spell: Reduces strike-type damage. If the user reactivates this spell during the duration, it negates a single strike-type attack.
  • Black hole: If Ainz Ooal Gown can´t kill Kishin fully due to that type 8 immortality, Ainz can use this to create a void that absorbs enemies inside with crushing gravity.
  • The Goal of All Life is Death: Should be able to bypass immortality 1-9 so r.i.p Kishin
Ainz wtf
All hail
 
If Type 8 Inmortality is a go, then Ainz's death spells are a big no go. And Ainz having resistance doesn't matter likewise, what matters is the level of resistance, and I don't see anything that puts it on Madness of Fear levels. More like, Ainz's emotion limiter seems to just arbitrarily work and it has done nothing to diminish his undying love for Nazarick, as well as his fear of never meeting his teammates, of actually meeting a strong enemy, or all that could happen to the tomb or it's members while on his watch. Ainz is gonna be affected pretty dang hard, either incapacitated outright, or resisting enough that it's just hard to do anything.

Then, the Kishin has both flames attacks and crushing attacks due to his telekinesis by madness, his "bandages" can all be used to attack or swat off attacks that can be swatted, and the Kishin has the ap advantage by a likely big margin. Crona did a feat that I believe was settled at 25 Gigatons. Maka could reasonably match this same Crona, and she's not quite at the skill or pure power level of Black Star and Death the Kid. This is before Kid becomes the next Shinigami and Maka herself uses the Black Blood for another boost, Kishin saying Kid is "about equal or slightly weaker" to Black Star. They still can't deal much damage to him, while he's smacking them around without trouble and even cripples one of Black Star's arms with one attack using Vajra. He should easily hurt Ainz even if he didn't have attacks to 2 of his weaknesses.

If Type 8 Immortality is a no go... then Ainz still gets ****** by Madness of Fear. Then it's a coin throw of who can attack first, and using what attack. There's a reason the instant kill focused set of Ainz wasn't a big deal in Yggdrassil. If it's a powerful opponent, Ainz should be more inclined for direct fire power or trying to gain distance to think for a second and/or retaliate.
 
It's a "possible" immortality due to Crona's words that Kishin can't die as long as anything lives, because anything living means fear exists. Even if it doesn't, Madness of Fear should be going off since the start and affecting Ainz. I still believe he would favor more direct damage attacks than Instant Kills off the bat.
 
Ainz has mind manipulation resistance so I think that includes madness manipulation as it messes with the mind, So ainz can't be affected by madness manipulation of kishin. Also, ainz will use instakill spells on the bat. Once he finds out it doesn't work, he can just stop time and use the goal of all life is death and kishin dies since the goal of all life is death bypasses any resistance or immunity to death (like immortality type 1 - 9).
 
It doesn't matter that he has resistance though, it matters what level of resistance. The Kishin could affect a few hundred passively and the whole world when it was full active. Show me Ainz resisting something on this level and you have a point.

And no, because he will be getting affected by Madness of Fear from the bat. Ainz comes from a game where Instant Kill is not a big deal when the level gap closes, why would he favor those spells with an opponent ******* him up past his mind resistances? And I would love Ainz shown to be using TGoALISD in stopped time, because if he didn't while Shalltear's Valkyria was coming at him, there's no proof that he can. The timer may as well stop until time resumes. And this is all if Ainz can pull all these sequences of events before the Kishin comes wailing at him with Madness of Fear assaulting him.
 
Ainz has a strong resistance to mind manipulation because of his nature as an emotionless undead. The only reason that he ever feels the emotions that he does is because of the fact that he used to be a human. His resistance is strong enough that nothing from YGGDRASIL is known to bypass it except for world items (which are generally at least planet level). Just because he himself feels emotion sometimes does not mean that he is vulnerable to mind manipulation.

Ainz didn't use Time Stop while fighting Shalltear because she has resistance to time manipulation. There would've been no point. It's still debatable whether TGOALID would even work in a time stop, though.
 
No, he doesn't get to bypass emotional manipulation because he's an undead. The undead from the crime organization, like all undead, had a big hatred for life and even had pride, that's emotions. Shalltear, an undead, has emotions. Iguva whatever, an artificial lich sent to battle the lizardman, had emotions. Landfall, a vampire far older than most people in the new world, has emotions. Ainz himself has, and has showcased time and time again, very powerful emotions which his emotional dampener just calms down but never dissipates. The only thing he has is the Undead immunity and whatever gear he has for extra immunity, and he has shown no resistance on Madness of Fear levels. The world items affecting him also doesn't matter anything, as he obviously can't resist the effect without a world item of his own, it'd be different if he resisted even a little and we considered every World Item on planet level (we do not last I saw).

I did forget she got that resistance, but again that's very unlikely. If it was so simple Ainz would never lose any of the matches against builds that he didn't know or very powerful builds, which he was much better at analyzing after the fact and countering. He's gonna be getting affected from second 1 by Madness of Fear, _why_ would he not favor tactics he'd use against someone that's high level? He doesn't know he is fighting someone who ain't a player.
 
I don't think Kishin's madness manipulation is on the same level as that of a world item, cause that's kind of no limits fallacy to me. Ainz is also paranoid in combat and kishin doesn't look weak so Ainz will just time stop like the fight with gazef and use insta kill spells. If he finds out that doesn't work then he can either use super tier spells or the goal of all life is death. Hell, he can even use wish upon a star (which is reality warping) to defeat kishin.
 
XLord of NightmaresX said:
I don't think Kishin's madness manipulation is on the same level as that of a world item, cause that's kind of no limits fallacy to me.
Click to expand...
LSirLancelotDuLaci's argument doesn't (necessarily) relies on Kishin's madness to be on the same level as a world item though. Unless Ainz resisted the world item on its own, bringing up world item is not necessary since Ainz's mind resistance is below the potency of world items.

Basically you and FDrybob are saying that since Ainz was only seen affected by a world item mindhax therefore Ainz has a mind resistance that scales to this world item. Logically the very opposite is true: if he is affected by a world item (without any sign of resistance) his mind resistance is way way below planetary (to an unknown factor).
 
His resistance wouldn't scale at all to a world item if it worked him. That just means Ainz has basic resistance which isn't enough to beat someone with madness hax that has actual numbers behind it like Kishin.
 
Ainz doesn't have basic resistance, his resistance is strong enough to be called mind manipulation immunity since only world items (which are basically cheat items) can affect him.

Ainz can resist the madness manipulation since ainz can also make someone go insane using despair aura lV, it wouldn't make sense for him to be affected by it since he can also use madness manipulation easily and since other lv 100 players can do that, I doubt he can be affected by it.

Besides, it's not like kishin's madness manipulation is that strong, it may have a lot range (planetary) but it's not as strong as world items, since maka, black star and death the kid resisted it (even if only a little bit) and Ainz has stronger resistance than those three as he is the highest class of undead (which makes his resistance even more stronger than normal undead).

So, Ainz won't just go kill himself or lose the will to fight because of kishin's madness manipulation. Even if kishin's madness affected Ainz, it won't be enough to make Ainz lose the battle. Hell, if it affected Ainz, I think Ainz will just straight up stop time and use the goal of all life is death and just kill kishin since he's a big threat.
 
Why people trying to debate on this potential stomp thread? If madness aura is passive, then Ainz will shit himself in auto-lose. Stop wanking Ainz's shitty featless resistance to mindfuck, it's a no way a special deal. Also, don't see how Heinz would beat type 8 relying on the concept of fear.
 
That's not how resistance works. Being called immunity doesn't make it stronger when immunity is NLF. Unless you're saying that there is no one on this wiki who can mind hax him. Being able to use Despair Aura doesn't mean you resist madness hax. Let me put it this way. If someone uses madness hax on an entire city of people and someone resisted that madness hax, then someone who could madness hax a planet still would work on the person with resistance. You can't just give Ainz better resistance than other alive characters just because he is undead.
 
Marquis Samigina said:
Why people trying to debate on this potential stomp thread? If madness aura is passive, then Ainz will shit himself in auto-lose. Stop wanking Ainz's shitty featless resistance to mindfuck, it's a no way a special deal. Also, don't see how Heinz would beat type 8 relying on the concept of fear.
Click to expand...
If he can´t beat that immortality type 8 look at my vote though from above :)
 
XLord of NightmaresX said:
Besides, it's not like kishin's madness manipulation is that strong, it may have a lot range (planetary) but it's not as strong as world items, since maka, black star and death the kid resisted it (even if only a little bit) and Ainz has stronger resistance than those three as he is the highest class of undead (which makes his resistance even more stronger than normal undead).
Click to expand...
In this site, the ammount affected by the mindhax = potency.
 
Marquis Samigina said:
Why people trying to debate on this potential stomp thread? If madness aura is passive, then Ainz will shit himself in auto-lose. Stop wanking Ainz's shitty featless resistance to mindfuck, it's a no way a special deal. Also, don't see how Heinz would beat type 8 relying on the concept of fear.
Click to expand...
You need to calm down.
 
Yup, Ainz is nervous paranoid fellow who is always afraid of loosing face in front of his colleagues. Put it simply, as long as Ainz exists as Ainz, Kishin would come back to babyshake him.
 
Marquis Samigina said:
Yup, Ainz is nervous paranoid fellow who is always afraid of loosing face in front of his colleagues. Put it simply, as long as Ainz exists as Ainz, Kishin would come back to babyshake him.
Click to expand...
Fix that grammer: as long as Ainz exists as Ainz
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
You can't just give Ainz better resistance than other alive characters just because he is undead.
Click to expand...
I said kishin's madness manipulation has a lot of range (planetary) but it's not as powerful as world items. Also, in the overlord lore and in-game, undead literally have mind manipulation resistance and being in a higher class like an overlord makes him even more resistant to mind manipulation.

Like I said, just because his madness hax affected an entire planet does not mean it's as powerful as world items since some characters who just have a strong will (or soul) can resist (like black star).

Also, Ainz resistance is not really featless as shalltear was only affected by a world item (which means Ainz can also only be affected by a world item or something with equivalent power since he's undead like shalltear).

Ainz resistance > Maka, Black star, Death the kid

And Kishin's madness < Maka, Black Star, Death the kid

Therefore Ainz resistance > Kishin's madness. It's that simple.
 
You can't say that hax is weaker because someone who had resistance to it wasn't effected. Right now it just sounds like Ainz has more resistance than a normal undead who has basic resistance.

"Aso, Ainz resistance is not really featless as shalltear was only affected by a world item (which means Ainz can also only be affected by a world item since he's undead like shalltear)."

That's not how that works. If Ainz dies because someone who is Multi Continental punches him, that doesn't make Ainz multi continental for only being killed by a Multi Continental attack. Just because an attack works on you does not mean that anything weaker than that atttack won't.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
That's not how that works. If Ainz dies because someone who is Multi Continental punches him, that doesn't make Ainz multi continental for only being killed by a Multi Continental attack. Just because an attack works on you does not mean that anything weaker than that atttack won't.
Click to expand...
Ainz resistance is literally on the same level as Shalltear or even more. They are both undead (which is literally the reason they can only be affected by world items or something of equivalent power).

Maka, Black Star, Death the kid > Normal people's resistance

Normal undead (do you expect a skeleton to kill itself because of fear?) > Maka, Black Star, Death the kid

Ainz resistance > normal undead due to being lv 100 (which grants a lot of buffs) as well as being overlord class.

So, if Normal undead > Maka, Black Star, Death the kid

Then Ainz resistance < Kishin's madness

Ainz wins because of racial bonuses, that's it, plain and simple.
 
Paul Frank said:
Wow guys ainz has mindhax immunity so I guess he doesn't get passively stomped by reinhard pulling out his spear ovo
Click to expand...
Reinhard's hax would be more powerful than a world item if characters that are planet level resisted it. My point is the same.
 
Having planetary range mind manip hax does not make it as powerful as world items if certain characters can resist it. Saying planetary range is equal to it's power is like saying vento of the front's divine punishment is as strong as kishin's madness or a world item.
 
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