Adventure Time revisions (for high tiers)

[Antvasima]

I am not sure. What are your conclusions so far here in summary?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

The first conclusion I have is on Death's stats, that he should be "At least High 3-A" for now. I was wondering what others thought.

 

[RatherClueless]

When New New Death is born, all the Dead Worlds are recreated and we also see that represented on the monitor by it reforming totally, looking like stars. (Watch the start of this). So clearly they did destroy the Dead World. And also we literally see them do it multiple times to every Dead World, one by one.

Honestly, no idea how I missed the undertakes blowing up the other dead worlds, since I definetly remembered the scene of death watching the screens. Anyways, them scaling is actually supporting my point though. Undertakers and Finn are able to give each other a physical brawl and them destroying the dead worlds had no effect on the souls inhabiting them. They were simply sent to lower dead worlds. This shows that 1. The power only affected the deadworlds themselves and 2. it doesn't scale to their physicals

It would scale to his power (which he grants to his angels) which scales to his stats. So it would be physical.

It being his power means absolutely nothing tho. There is no evidence it scales to his physicals.

The Land of the Dead itself is a dimension apart from the other Dead Worlds, which are other dimensions.

I actually really like this quote. Especially the ending. "but this is his world and it does revolve around him", with the does even being in italics. Kinda just goes to support my take on it being afterlife specific.

To say Death would be normal stick level if you bypass his incoporality is...weird.

I never said he is "stick level". I said Finn and Jake used that stick to beat him up. If someone kills someone with a sword, they aren't "sword level" either. They scale to the person using the sword.

Also, just making this clear again, I don't mind H 3-A Death. There simply isn't any evidence for it scaling to anything like physicals. There being explicit statements or feats is a requirement to scale creation feats. There is neither.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Honestly, no idea how I missed the undertakes blowing up the other dead worlds, since I definetly remembered the scene of death watching the screens. Anyways, them scaling is actually supporting my point though. Undertakers and Finn are able to give each other a physical brawl and them destroying the dead worlds had no effect on the souls inhabiting them. They were simply sent to lower dead worlds. This shows that 1. The power only affected the deadworlds themselves and 2. it doesn't scale to their physicals

It doesn't need to affect souls to be proven to have a physical effect. Souls are intangible anyway so raw energy doesn't need to erase them. Also they only scale when multiple of them charge up an attack and the attack isn't the same as their punching and kicking. Even if they were that strong individually, or just had some logically divided into being 3-B, 3-A or whatever. It doesn't matter because we can give another explanation/interpretation, as Finn and Jake are souls so the ability of the Undertakers to hit souls is not the same as them hitting someone physically. Or simply, we can say it's an outlier for Finn and Jake.

It being his power means absolutely nothing tho. There is no evidence it scales to his physicals.

It being his raw power means it scales to his physicals.

I actually really like this quote. Especially the ending. "but this is his world and it does revolve around him", with the does even being in italics. Kinda just goes to support my take on it being afterlife specific.

This doesn't necessary mean it's just some manipulation. Yes he controls the Dead Worlds but that doesn't mean destorying and recreating them is just some esoteric ability with no raw power.

I never said he is "stick level". I said Finn and Jake used that stick to beat him up. If someone kills someone with a sword, they aren't "sword level" either. They scale to the person using the sword.

Also, just making this clear again, I don't mind H 3-A Death. There simply isn't any evidence for it scaling to anything like physicals. There being explicit statements or feats is a requirement to scale creation feats. There is neither.

Yes they used the stick but that doesn't mean the physicality of Finn and Jake actually means anything. It all depends on the stick being a special weapon, so it isn't an anti-feat.

I know your position, I just completely disagree tbh.

 

[Antvasima]

@Amelia_Lonelyheart @Js250476

Your help would still be appreciated here.

 

[Js250476]

I think what Emperor is saying makes sense I initially wasn’t sure how to rate feats involving The Dead Worlds but since I remembered one of them is literally referred to as an infinite plane and the rest should reasonably be the same, the feats for the Undertakers, New Death and Mr Fox seem legitimate to me. High 3-A seems like a reasonable and safe rating to me. Destroying them and New New Death later restoring them with relative ease are pretty clear cut feats.

And no the stick of life is definitely not an anti feat it’s literally enchanted by the embodiment of life itself with the purpose of conquering death itself it’s pretty obviously not an ordinary stick.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. That is probably fine to apply then, unless there are any well-considered objections.

 

[Js250476]

No problem

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Hasn't the 5-A downgrade thread been done yet? Cause if I make Tiffany profile, he scales to Finn in his base.

 

[Antvasima]

The downgrade thread for the less powerful characters is unfortunately still unfinished. I would appreciate it you help us out with properly handling it.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Actually the Dead Worlds are different planes. It is stated by Death in the comics that one Dead World is "an infinite plane". And we don't actually know the structure of the afterlife, we can't really just say "the afterlife would be like a pocket dimension with smaller pocket dimensions". The Land of the Dead itself is a dimension apart from the other Dead Worlds, which are other dimensions. And we know there are many dimensions in the Multiverse according to Booko. Wherein the normal universe is also classed as one dimension. (2:30 in this vid).

I don't see the point here. The Dead Worlds are pretty clearly a series of interconnected realms existing in the same overall space (This being the Land of the Dead itself, in this case), and they all share the same common nature, as evidenced by how souls can move up and down between them, as well as how them being able to change their forms and assume the appearance of any past versions of themselves is something that applies in all of them. This is far more reasonable than saying that the Dead Worlds are just a bunch of separate and largely unrelated realms that just so happen to be within Death's domain, as you seem to be implying here.

And, like Rather said up there, Reality Warping doesn't really scale to your physical abilities by default. It's up to you to prove that it does, in any case, especially when the feat involves Death having some inherent and vaguely-defines control over the Afterlife, and not him drawing from some energy pool in order to do these feats, or something along those lines, which would be a case where these abilities could scale to his physicals.

It doesn't need to affect souls to be proven to have a physical effect. Souls are intangible anyway so raw energy doesn't need to erase them. Also they only scale when multiple of them charge up an attack and the attack isn't the same as their punching and kicking. Even if they were that strong individually, or just had some logically divided into being 3-B, 3-A or whatever. It doesn't matter because we can give another explanation/interpretation, as Finn and Jake are souls so the ability of the Undertakers to hit souls is not the same as them hitting someone physically.

I still don't really see the point here. The Undertakers' energy blast reduces a Dead World to a void by destroying the main landmass comprising it, whose exact size is unclear. Tiffany even explicitly refers to the hole in the Land of the Dead as a "bottomless void," so the statement doesn't necessarily apply to the Dead Worlds themselves, either, but only to the emptiness in which they exist and which remains after they are considered "destroyed" even by Death. So, the Undertakers' powers don't necessarily relate to Death's Reality Warping, even in terms of scale.

Although, do we consider the comics as canon here? The scan you've posted up there has Death more or less confirming that the Dead Worlds themselves are infinitely-sized planes, so, that could be useful.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out Ultima.

We usually keep comics and cartoon continuities separate unless the original cartoons extensively reference and/or endorse the canonicity of the comics.

I remember that the AT comics also contained a segment in which Hunson Abadeer effortlessly defeated Golb, for example, which seems very unreliable.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I don't see the point here. The Dead Worlds are pretty clearly a series of interconnected realms existing in the same overall space (This being the Land of the Dead itself, in this case), and they all share the same common nature, as evidenced by how souls can move up and down between them, as well as how them being able to change their forms and assume the appearance of any past versions of themselves is something that applies in all of them. This is far more reasonable than saying that the Dead Worlds are just a bunch of separate and largely unrelated realms that just so happen to be within Death's domain, as you seem to be implying here.

And, like Rather said up there, Reality Warping doesn't really scale to your physical abilities by default. It's up to you to prove that it does, in any case, especially when the feat involves Death having some inherent and vaguely-defines control over the Afterlife, and not him drawing from some energy pool in order to do these feats, or something along those lines, which would be a case where these abilities could scale to his physicals.

My point here is that we can interpret the Dead Worlds as different dimensions as a high end and High 3-A is quite generose. As for the premises which is "they share the same common nature because they can change their forms" and "souls can move up and down between them", how are these exactly any evidence that they aren't their own dimensions and are "interconnected realms within one space"? To me this seems like quite a leap. I agree that they share 'common nature' of Finn being able to change his form. So? As for souls moving up and down Dead Worlds, we never actually see this if I'm aware, we don't actually know how the Dead travel to their assigned Dead World on screen, so this is just an assumption. When New Death sends the people in 50th to the 1st and people from Tree Trunks' place, the first one is a lot more vague and we do see they are falling at least. The second one, we see he has opened a portal in and sent them through. My point is there can be seperate dimensions and be related rather than unrelated within Death's total domain.

I'm not completely sure of which feat you're talking about, you mean the recreations of the Dead Worlds at the end? Ok I'll drop this point for now if you guys believe it is just reality warping.

I still don't really see the point here. The Undertakers' energy blast reduces a Dead World to a void by destroying the main landmass comprising it, whose exact size is unclear. Tiffany even explicitly refers to the hole in the Land of the Dead as a "bottomless void," so the statement doesn't necessarily apply to the Dead Worlds themselves, either, but only to the emptiness in which they exist and which remains after they are considered "destroyed" even by Death. So, the Undertakers' powers don't necessarily relate to Death's Reality Warping, even in terms of scale.

The point here was to prevent Finn and Jake from scaling. Now you're saying it just destroys "landmass" but we know the entire world is destroyed, as we see on screen with New Death's monitors. So it includes everything. And no, Undertakers are created by New Death as part of his "reformations". They didn't exist with Old Death and they're created by New Death, so their feats definitely scale to New Death, which is why I mentioned their destruction in the first place. Also I agree the statement doesn't necessarily apply to every Dead World.

Although, do we consider the comics as canon here? The scan you've posted up there has Death more or less confirming that the Dead Worlds themselves are infinitely-sized planes, so, that could be useful.

There is no official canon to Adventure Time so you would have to make your own up I guess. This scan I got about Death's Dead World being an infinitely sized plane is from the main Adventure Time 75 issue run since 2012.

 

[CrackNet]

I think the comics are canon but in a different universe or something around these lines

 

[Antvasima]

Possibly, yes, but the power-scaling seems very different, given the Hunson/Golb example above, for example.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I think the comics are canon but in a different universe or something around these lines

I believe Adam Muto said something along those lines although I'm usure where. Either way, the comics and main series don't intersect, they're just part of the greater Multiverse.

Possibly, yes, but the power-scaling seems very different, given the Hunson/Golb example above, for example.

We aren't really power scaling, it just provides more information into the Dead Worlds.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Regardless, since this won't be accepted without the others agreeing, I will compromise and not scale High 3-A to Death's stats. I propose:

Tier: Unknown. At least High 3-A.

Attack Potency: Unknown. At least High 3-A (Death lords over the Dead Worlds from his domain, the Land of the Dead. He is able to create endless voids within his personal realm and it is possible that the other Dead Worlds are also infinite in size. When his son takes over, taking the power of his father, the minions he created whilst refoming the Dead World, Undertakers, are able to destroy entire Dead Worlds when at least four of them charge up an energy blast). Can ignore conventional durability.

We can leave the other stats at Unknown, removing the Tier 5.

(Also remove the weakness since being afraid of the Lich doesn't translate to that weakness, literally just saying "yikes" is not enough for that in my view. We can see the "yikes" as just the Lich being extremely creepy with his almost machine like determination and approach to achieve his goal of ending all life and Death being creeped out by it. Like imagine some huge entity like that literally just standing around not even blinking...)

 

[CrackNet]

Possibly, yes, but the power-scaling seems very different, given the Hunson/Golb example above, for example.

The Simon and Marcy comic is actually not the same continuity with the main comic series,Simon and Marcy is supposed to be canon to adventure time unless it contradicts it (not contradicts it scaling wise but story wise obviously)

 

[Antvasima]

Regardless, since this won't be accepted without the others agreeing, I will compromise and not scale High 3-A to Death's stats. I propose:

Tier: Unknown. At least High 3-A.

Attack Potency: Unknown. At least High 3-A (Death lords over the Dead Worlds from his domain, the Land of the Dead. He is able to create endless voids within his personal realm and it is possible that the other Dead Worlds are also infinite in size. When his son takes over, taking the power of his father, the minions he created whilst refoming the Dead World, Undertakers, are able to destroy entire Dead Worlds when at least four of them charge up an energy blast). Can ignore conventional durability.

We can leave the other stats at Unknown, removing the Tier 5.

(Also remove the weakness since being afraid of the Lich doesn't translate to that weakness, literally just saying "yikes" is not enough for that in my view. We can see the "yikes" as just the Lich being extremely creepy with his almost machine like determination and approach to achieve his goal of ending all life and Death being creeped out by it. Like imagine some huge entity like that literally just standing around not even blinking...)

I haven't watched the special episodes, so please clarify something for me: Are you referring to Death or the Lich? I thought that the Lich's minions were the ones destroying the dead worlds.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I haven't watched the special episodes, so please clarify something for me: Are you referring to Death or the Lich? I thought that the Lich's minions were the ones destroying the dead worlds.

Death not the Lich. Undertakers are from New Death not the Lich.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Mamaroza]

Bump

 

[Mamaroza]

Okay. Thanks for the reply.

What is the conclusion? I saw that everyone has no problem with Death being High 3A, but why is Death still 5A?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

What is the conclusion? I saw that everyone has no problem with Death being High 3A, but why is Death still 5A?

This thread is from 2021. Don't necro threads in the future, please.