Adventure Time revisions (for high tiers)

[The_real_cal_howard]

Huh, it’s been a while since I made a CRT...

Okay, first off, spoilers.


I just watched the finale of adventure time distant lands, and there’s a lot of stuff that has to be discussed.

Who knew that Mr. Fox of all people would wind up having the best feat in the show...

Okay so this is a buff to the 2-Cs of the verse, as well as adding more 2-Cs. GOLB scales above Death so this works. Possibly scales to The Lich.
Mr. Fox as the New New Death reset 49 of the 50 Dead Worlds. There’s 50 Dead Worlds in Adventure Time, with 1 being seemingly Limbo and 50 outright being Nirvana. And when Tiffany (by the way, Tiffany is some sort of angel cop now) and the others like him destroy the 37th, we see nothing but an endless expanse. If it being the literal afterlife wasn’t enough to prove it being endless and infinite. This would also make Tiffany Low 2-C. If it didn’t involve timespace, I’d say it’s a 3-B feat as it required 4 of those angel cops and they needed to charge up to do it. Also could be a speed feat as Tiffany was able to warp out Margaret and Joshua before they could be taken out with the rest of the 37th.
Mr. Fox outright needs a profile. 10-B while alive because he’s literally just an anthropomorphic fox, but 2-C as the New New Death. Death should have abstract existence. You can’t touch death. Period. Not unless you have powers of the literal concept of life. The first Death was killed by his son, the New Death, whose mother is Life itself, and he in turn was killed by a weapon imbued by his mom. If you kill Death, you take his place, skeleton bod and all, which is why Mr. Fox is the current Death. Well...the Lich can possess Death, but he’s a whole different can of worms. Speaking of...
The Lich (and therefore Hunson) possibly scales. The first Death was scared of him, and Mr. Fox shouldn’t be above the most experienced Death. Lich could also burn a talisman that could hold the New Death. I...don’t know if Finn & Jake scale. Every time they hurt the Lich he either wasn’t at full power or they used a weapon that was designed to defeat him, even if they use it incorrectly. However, Finn was able to knock out Tiffany, who as said above is a cosmic level threat with his new power.
New hax. For Finn, Jake, and Death. For first, Finn and Jake. Immortality type 7. They're dead. Duh. But this should be a key as they decide to reincarnate at the end of the episode. But as a dead being, they have shapeshifting. Jake still has his normal Shapeshifting, but they can have different shapeshifting. The dead can take any form they’ve previously had, be it a past life or even a temporary form. Finn turns into Shoko multiple times in the episode, as well as the butterfly and giant sea lard or whatever he was and the meteor in his past life. He turns old and baby multiple times. He even turns into his Lumpy form that he had for less than 2 minutes in in like the 4th episode of the series. Jake turns into Shoko’s tiger and his alien form. But that’s all for the main characters.
Apparently Death can scatter atoms of people (he could’ve been boasting as the New Death was super boastful) and Death can transmute. Mr. Fox could turn his new scythe into a hypoallergenic pillow. There’s also dimensional travel, which Tiffany has with some flute thing. And soul manipulation obviously, but that’s probably already on the profile.

 

[RatherClueless]

Mfw I actually have to watch distant lands now

I'll be back tomorrow for this

 

[Dalesean027]

Wait distant lands actually has crazy shitwth I'll be back on here in a few hours I'm following

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

This looks good to me.

 

[Zencha9]

Yeah looks good

 

[Zencha9]

Yeah looks good

 

[RatherClueless]

Alright, lets get to it then.

Okay so this is a buff to the 2-Cs of the verse, as well as adding more 2-Cs. GOLB scales above Death so this works. Possibly scales to The Lich.
Mr. Fox as the New New Death reset 49 of the 50 Dead Worlds.

Alright, lets go over this. Yes he reset 49 dead worlds, but they are all still part of the afterlife. It was never implied they are seperate universes or anything like that. Likely more like a subspace, considering they are all connected and all within the afterlife. Next up, was it even AP? Probably not. I'd go out on a limb and say it was something akin to subjective reality within the afterlife. New Death wasn't able to access the 50th dead world with brute force, but once he entered it, he had full control over it. Seriously, there is no evidence that Death can do anything like this outside the afterlife, which is also why it makes scaling a bit iffy.

And when Tiffany (by the way, Tiffany is some sort of angel cop now) and the others like him destroy the 37th, we see nothing but an endless expanse. If it being the literal afterlife wasn’t enough to prove it being endless and infinite

That was the 45th, not the 37th. 37th is the one where death is. Anyways, not saying that the afterlife isn't infinite, but everything being dark doesn't mean something is infinite. If I turn out my lights at night, my room doesn't become infinitely sized either.

This would also make Tiffany Low 2-C. If it didn’t involve timespace, I’d say it’s a 3-B feat as it required 4 of those angel cops and they needed to charge up to do it. Also could be a speed feat as Tiffany was able to warp out Margaret and Joshua before they could be taken out with the rest of the 37th.

This . . . man, ppl be making it hard for me to be less sarcastic and mean in threads like these. is not what happened. They formed a massive orb and blew it up in front of a house . . . and the bulding was still in decent shape after it. So yeah, definetly not even close to tier 3. Yes, all those . . . rocks(?) that were surrounding the place Finn was in got blown to pieces (large ones at that.), but that still doesnt justify anything like tier 3. I mean, u might be able to calc a speed fear, but I doubt it's anything special. He can teleport after all.

Mr. Fox outright needs a profile. 10-B while alive because he’s literally just an anthropomorphic fox, but 2-C as the New New Death. Death should have abstract existence. You can’t touch death. Period. Not unless you have powers of the literal concept of life. The first Death was killed by his son, the New Death, whose mother is Life itself, and he in turn was killed by a weapon imbued by his mom. If you kill Death, you take his place, skeleton bod and all, which is why Mr. Fox is the current Death. Well...the Lich can possess Death, but he’s a whole different can of worms. Speaking of...

I mean, you can make a profile, ig, though I dont think he should be 2-C. Low 2-C within the afterlife at best. He is incorporeal. Just that he is even incorporeal to ghosts and the like. Where did you get the "concept" of life part from? I dont think it was anywhere stated that it was conceptual. Yes, the Lich can mess with death, tho it doesn't seem that simple, considering the cut off hand tried convincing Mr. Fox, instead of simply possessing him.

The Lich (and therefore Hunson) possibly scales

I dont remeber either one of them possessing power comparable to what death possesses within the afterlife. If the Lich did, everyone would have been dead by that point already.

The first Death was scared of him, and Mr. Fox shouldn’t be above the most experienced Death. Lich could also burn a talisman that could hold the New Death. I...don’t know if Finn & Jake scale. Every time they hurt the Lich he either wasn’t at full power or they used a weapon that was designed to defeat him, even if they use it incorrectly. However, Finn was able to knock out Tiffany, who as said above is a cosmic level threat with his new power.

Being scared of someone doesn't mean being less powerful. There are many reasons as to why he could have been scared. Yes, the Lich could burn . . . a piece of paper. Amazing. That isn't a feat for anything, really. No, Finn and Jake don't scale to a full power Lich. Lets just say Tiffany was 3-B with that one, very specific attack. Why does his durablity scale to that again?

New hax. For Finn, Jake, and Death. For first, Finn and Jake. Immortality type 7. They're dead. Duh. But this should be a key as they decide to reincarnate at the end of the episode. But as a dead being, they have shapeshifting. Jake still has his normal Shapeshifting, but they can have different shapeshifting. The dead can take any form they’ve previously had, be it a past life or even a temporary form. Finn turns into Shoko multiple times in the episode, as well as the butterfly and giant sea lard or whatever he was and the meteor in his past life. He turns old and baby multiple times. He even turns into his Lumpy form that he had for less than 2 minutes in in like the 4th episode of the series. Jake turns into Shoko’s tiger and his alien form. But that’s all for the main characters.

Finn already has type 7 iirc. (if not he should). But yeah, the rest is fine for a death specific key.

Apparently Death can scatter atoms of people (he could’ve been boasting as the New Death was super boastful) and Death can transmute. Mr. Fox could turn his new scythe into a hypoallergenic pillow. There’s also dimensional travel, which Tiffany has with some flute thing. And soul manipulation obviously, but that’s probably already on the profile.

Yeah, this just seemed like your typical "I'll reduce you to atoms! hahaha" kinda talk, so probably not a thing. The rest is fine.

It's getting close to 2AM, so chances are that my explanations are lack luster or I forgot something, but this will be it for now

 

[Zaratthustra]

Do you have evidence that the Worlds are Universes?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Dead Worlds are High 3-A if we go by the main one. Remember there's a literal bottomless pit.

 

[RatherClueless]

Dead Worlds are High 3-A if we go by the main one. Remember there's a literal bottomless pit.

Sure. That still doesn't mean that the feat of "destroying" dead world 45 is 3-B, since we don't know how exactly it looked like outside of what we were shown in the beginning. Maybe it was already just floating in space. Considering that Finn didn't even notice the attack until it happened and many things close to the explosion (?) were still "perfectly" intact, 3-B seems very unlikely.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Busting dead worlds is unknown, literally unknown size with sub spaces of the afterlife lol

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

We can atleast scale new death above old death so eh

 

[RatherClueless]

bump

 

[RatherClueless]

bump

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I haven't watched Distant Lands yet but I will today. Anyway in terms of Dead World sizes, this is stated in a comic as one of them being an infinite plane which souls wander for eternity.

 

[RatherClueless]

I haven't watched Distant Lands yet but I will today. Anyway in terms of Dead World sizes, this is stated in a comic as one of them being an infinite plane which souls wander for eternity.

Well, the comics aren't canon to the show, but I suppose this can still serve as supporting evidence

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I agree, my position on the comics is that they are part of the wider multiverse and don't have relation to the show, but they can be used a supporting material as long as there are no clear contradictions.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Ok I watched it and I dislike a few aspects, like what they did at the end with the Lich but whatever, it was fine.

I think that Death should be like at least High 3-A because he controls the Dead Worlds bar the 50th, I think that is pretty evident. New Death also demolished the other Dead Worlds and then New New Death recreated them by...hugging a really good pillow. It is confirmed that in the Land of the Death, which is Death's personal realm contains a literal void as well. In the encyclopedia, it is stated by Hunson Abadeer that the Land of the Dead "is Death's world and it revolves around him".

I can see the argument for subjective reality but considering New Death does destroy those realms and then New New Death recreates them, it should scale to the full extent of his power. There are plenty of cases across the site where characters have been given tiers for the similar things.

This should be consistent with the upper echelon of Cosmic Entities such as Prismo and GOLB as well where Prismo can create new universes and GOLB can destroy them.

 

[RatherClueless]

Ok I watched it and I dislike a few aspects, like what they did at the end with the Lich but whatever, it was fine.

I think that Death should be like at least High 3-A because he controls the Dead Worlds bar the 50th, I think that is pretty evident. New Death also demolished the other Dead Worlds and then New New Death recreated them by...hugging a really good pillow. It is confirmed that in the Land of the Death, which is Death's personal realm contains a literal void as well. In the encyclopedia, it is stated by Hunson Abadeer that the Land of the Dead "is Death's world and it revolves around him".

I can see the argument for subjective reality but considering New Death does destroy those realms and then New New Death recreates them, it should scale to the full extent of his power. There are plenty of cases across the site where characters have been given tiers for the similar things.

This should be consistent with the upper echelon of Cosmic Entities such as Prismo and GOLB as well where Prismo can create new universes and GOLB can destroy them.

I personally don't mind Death getting H 3-A AP, for as long as it is "within the afterlife" specific, as well as not something physical, but with the ability to manipulate the afterlife. Prismo and the rest scale above this regardless, since they are Low 2-C and above.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I personally don't mind Death getting H 3-A AP, for as long as it is "within the afterlife" specific, as well as not something physical, but with the ability to manipulate the afterlife. Prismo and the rest scale above this regardless, since they are Low 2-C and above.

Why "within the afterlife" specific and not 'physical'?

 

[RatherClueless]

Why "within the afterlife" specific and not 'physical'?

Lets cover the "physical" part first, since that is really easy. Abilities don't scale to physical powers unless shown otherwise. He can't simply exert H 3-A force, which was made clear by him not being able to force his way into the 50th dead world, yet once he entered it, he could easily manipulate it. Based on how it was depicted, the "destruction" of the dead world also wasn't him brute force destroying it, but using his abilities to dissolve it. Also, Finn and Jake beat the guy up with a stick.

When it comes to the "within the afterlife" part, I am basing that on the fact that this ability seems to be limited to the dead worlds. Dead worlds are part of the afterlife. Not to mention, if the Lich had the power to just destroy the normal universe (or at least its space), why wouldn't he? Instead the plan seemed to be to stop reincarnation and just wait for people to die.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Lets cover the "physical" part first, since that is really easy. Abilities don't scale to physical powers unless shown otherwise. He can't simply exert H 3-A force, which was made clear by him not being able to force his way into the 50th dead world, yet once he entered it, he could easily manipulate it. Based on how it was depicted, the "destruction" of the dead world also wasn't him brute force destroying it, but using his abilities to dissolve it. Also, Finn and Jake beat the guy up with a stick.

Okay I'll play throw some other point and possibilities.

I believe that New New Death recreating the destroyed dead worlds should be exertion of physical force, when he hugs the pillow we see that on the monitors of each dead world, the dimensions are reformed completely from being destroyed. We do see anyway that his angels are able to destroy dead worlds with some energy blast too.

Having High 3-A force doesn't mean you are able to access other realms. To get to Nirvana you need to either be in a "zen" state "free of all desire", to get there you have to not want to get there or having someone who has reached Nirvana open a portal so you can get there yourself.

Another interpretation is simply, we didn't see the destruction of the 50th. Rather we see Death send people from the 50th to the 1st.

Also I think you already know but the stick was imbued with the "kiss of life", which had "the power to conquer life" so it's clear the stick is special even if they were using it wrongly most of the time. Otherwise they literally would not be able to touch him at all.

When it comes to the "within the afterlife" part, I am basing that on the fact that this ability seems to be limited to the dead worlds. Dead worlds are part of the afterlife. Not to mention, if the Lich had the power to just destroy the normal universe (or at least its space), why wouldn't he? Instead the plan seemed to be to stop reincarnation and just wait for people to die.

As for this, yes we see him using his abilities in the Dead Worlds but that isn't necessarily a real evidence that he cannot do this outside of them. The next point delves into possibilities and your premises here aren't really concrete because I could give a whole host of alternatives to explain why he wouldn't just destroy the universe, main one being reincarnation itself. Perhaps he simply realised if he just kills everyone, they would just reincarnate. So rather he would face break the wheel of reincarnation itself to keep everything dead. Also the Lich wants ALL LIFE gone not just the life of his one universe.

 

[Antvasima]

@Amelia_Lonelyheart @Ultima_Reality @Js250476 @EmperorRorepme

Would you be willing to help evaluate this please?

 

[Antvasima]

@Legion350 @Sandman31 @Newendigo @Sans2345

Your input would also be appreciated here.

 

[Antvasima]

Oh. Emperor was already here. My apologies.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Yeah my position is that Death should just have "At least High 3-A" for all his stats and whatever powers need to be added. Then we can move onto the angels and whatever.

 

[Antvasima]

A question: Are the 3 Distant Lands specials the absolute last of the Adventure Time series?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I'm not sure to be honest. I think so since these 4 episodes are just "specials" because of the success of the miniseries within Adventure Time. Looking at the theme of finality for Finn and Jake's story in that 3rd episode, I think this is the end.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. So are there 4 or 3 episodes in total in this epilogue series?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

There are 4 episodes with one left that hasn't been released.

 

[Js250476]

Distant Lands has 4 specials Wizard City was originally supposed to come out earlier but Together Again ended up releasing before it. From the finality of it it’s likely the finale of Finn and Jake’s stories unless something else is announced in the future.

 

[RatherClueless]

I believe that New New Death recreating the destroyed dead worlds should be exertion of physical force, when he hugs the pillow we see that on the monitors of each dead world, the dimensions are reformed completely from being destroyed. We do see anyway that his angels are able to destroy dead worlds with some energy blast too.

Wait, I can't quite follow. How is hugging a pillow a physical H 3-A feat? Undertakers don't have a feat of destroying H 3-A space. There is no evidence they did any such thing.

Having High 3-A force doesn't mean you are able to access other realms. To get to Nirvana you need to either be in a "zen" state "free of all desire", to get there you have to not want to get there or having someone who has reached Nirvana open a portal so you can get there yourself.

It's not about accessing it. It's about him needing access to destroy it.

Another interpretation is simply, we didn't see the destruction of the 50th. Rather we see Death send people from the 50th to the 1st.

We literally saw the entire place melt away

Also I think you already know but the stick was imbued with the "kiss of life", which had "the power to conquer life" so it's clear the stick is special even if they were using it wrongly most of the time. Otherwise they literally would not be able to touch him at all.

Well yeah, I know. There is no implication that it strengthens them/weakens death

Anyways, none of this is any evidence that it should scale to physical abilities, which would be needed to actually scale it.

As for this, yes we see him using his abilities in the Dead Worlds but that isn't necessarily a real evidence that he cannot do this outside of them. The next point delves into possibilities and your premises here aren't really concrete because I could give a whole host of alternatives to explain why he wouldn't just destroy the universe, main one being reincarnation itself. Perhaps he simply realised if he just kills everyone, they would just reincarnate. So rather he would face break the wheel of reincarnation itself to keep everything dead. Also the Lich wants ALL LIFE gone not just the life of his one universe.

Well, it is stated that killing death chains you "to his stuff", which would be the dead worlds. It is stated new death has a revolutionary plan for the dead worlds and he even tells Finn the plan, which is "getting rid of all these pointless dead worlds" and "breaking the wheel of reincarnation". TL;DR assuming he can manipulate things outside of "his stuff", even though that's specifically the thing death is "chained to", as well as all he has ever shown seems a bit . . . NLF-ish

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Wait, I can't quite follow. How is hugging a pillow a physical H 3-A feat? Undertakers don't have a feat of destroying H 3-A space. There is no evidence they did any such thing.

Well, he didn't just hug a pillow. We see it on screen that after he becomes the New New Death, the other dead worlds are recreated, after previously being depicted on Death's monitors as being destroyed and complete darkness. Then on the monitors, they completely reform one by one. My point here is that he explicitly recreates something when it was previously nothing and this is raw power and exertion of the power. Also the Undertakers explicitly destroyed a dead world, whether or not you want to count that as High 3-A, I don't really care but my point is, it was done through an energy-wave on screen and Undertakers powers come from Death.

It's not about accessing it. It's about him needing access to destroy it.

I'm unsure why this would be a point against him. No one can access or reach the realm unless you are like Jake and this includes Death. Without access, how does he destroy it theoretically.

We literally saw the entire place melt away

I'll rewatch the scene to see if it is some sort of manipulation. But manipulation is a manipulation of existing things anywho and the dead worlds were gone.

Well yeah, I know. There is no implication that it strengthens them/weakens death

They don't need to be strong, the stick is special and when they hit Death with it we see that he is actually be harmed. If the stick was not a special stick literally designed to counter Death then it wouldn't even touch him at all so it doesn't really act as an anti-feat.

Well, it is stated that killing death chains you "to his stuff", which would be the dead worlds. It is stated new death has a revolutionary plan for the dead worlds and he even tells Finn the plan, which is "getting rid of all these pointless dead worlds" and "breaking the wheel of reincarnation". TL;DR assuming he can manipulate things outside of "his stuff", even though that's specifically the thing death is "chained to", as well as all he has ever shown seems a bit . . . NLF-ish

I disagree, my take is he is chained to the Dead Worlds as a part of the Cosmics and it is his responsibility. But I don't think we can infer that his abilities are limited to the Dead Worlds. At best the evidence for that is vague. I think the point of "being chained" was to show the distastefulness of becoming and being Death and having his job which wasn't befitting of someone like Finn and Jake who would rather be liberated to go on adventures then have these responsibilities and limitations.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Anyway if we don't agree then maybe others can bring in some input idm

 

[RatherClueless]

Well, he didn't just hug a pillow. We see it on screen that after he becomes the New New Death, the other dead worlds are recreated, after previously being depicted on Death's monitors as being destroyed and complete darkness. Then on the monitors, they completely reform one by one. My point here is that he explicitly recreates something when it was previously nothing and this is raw power and exertion of the power.

Yes and how does this make it a physical H 3-A feat? I don't have an issue with this being H 3-A. I have an isue with it scaling to things like durability, striking strength etc.

To quote the creation page:

"Even though there is concrete evidence for pocket reality creations to qualify as an Attack Potency feat; it should not be assumed to scale to physical statistics without some notable scaling reasons. Examples include on screen demonstrations, examples of destruction, or information that the same pool of energy used to create said dimension can translate to the same amount of energy being used for other abilities including but not limited to physical strikes."

as well as

"However a character who can create objects without other ways of harming their opponents by using an equal amount of energy from their energy pool wouldn't be able to harness that power to hurt another character, and would fall under a light form of Environmental Destruction."

so you need to prove that he can.

I'm unsure why this would be a point against him. No one can access or reach the realm unless you are like Jake and this includes Death. Without access, how does he destroy it theoretically.

It should exist somewhere within the afterlife, so he should be able to break in by force/destroy it from the outside. Not like it exists in a different plane of existance or anything like that.

I'll rewatch the scene to see if it is some sort of manipulation. But manipulation is a manipulation of existing things anywho and the dead worlds were gone.

Well, whether it is creation or destruction matters little to my point. I don't have an issue with death being H 3-A. I have an issue with it scaling to all his statistsics without any evidence.

They don't need to be strong, the stick is special and when they hit Death with it we see that he is actually be harmed. If the stick was not a special stick literally designed to counter Death then it wouldn't even touch him at all so it doesn't really act as an anti-feat.

Yes. It is special. In a way that allows them to bypass his intangibility. Yes, it was designed to counter death . . . but they used it incorrectly. They were even confused at it not doing anything. We later learned that they were holding it by the wrong end.

Anyway if we don't agree then maybe others can bring in some input idm

Yeah, it'd be great if it wasn't just the two of us, but considering how the AT CRT server is progressing, I highly doubt anyone else will have any meaningful participation here anytime soon

 

[RatherClueless]

Also the Undertakers explicitly destroyed a dead world, whether or not you want to count that as High 3-A, I don't really care but my point is, it was done through an energy-wave on screen and Undertakers powers come from Death.

Forgot this one. Just really quick. they didn't destroy a dead world. There is neither a statement for that, nor is it shown. Just because the surrounding area got nuked it doesn't mean it was the entire dead world. There is still lots of massive rubble and Finn didn't even notice at first. We wouldn't even be able to see that far. Even then, that still wouldn't be physical.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Forgot this one. Just really quick. they didn't destroy a dead world. There is neither a statement for that, nor is it shown. Just because the surrounding area got nuked it doesn't mean it was the entire dead world. There is still lots of massive rubble and Finn didn't even notice at first. We wouldn't even be able to see that far. Even then, that still wouldn't be physical.

As for this contention, iirc New Death literally told Tiffany to go and "jack up" the Dead World. We know New Death wanted to destroy all the Dead Worlds and this is represented on screen by the monitors looking into each Dead World, at one point New Death looks at the monitors and each Dead World eventually gets destroyed. When New New Death is born, all the Dead Worlds are recreated and we also see that represented on the monitor by it reforming totally, looking like stars. (Watch the start of this). So clearly they did destroy the Dead World. And also we literally see them do it multiple times to every Dead World, one by one.

Mass rubble honestly means nothing when the entire luminous surronding were totally annihilated leaving nothing but a blank void. It's just a PiS for the rubble to be there.

It would scale to his power (which he grants to his angels) which scales to his stats. So it would be physical.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

It should exist somewhere within the afterlife, so he should be able to break in by force/destroy it from the outside. Not like it exists in a different plane of existance or anything like that.

Actually the Dead Worlds are different planes. It is stated by Death in the comics that one Dead World is "an infinite plane". And we don't actually know the structure of the afterlife, we can't really just say "the afterlife would be like a pocket dimension with smaller pocket dimensions". The Land of the Dead itself is a dimension apart from the other Dead Worlds, which are other dimensions. And we know there are many dimensions in the Multiverse according to Booko. Wherein the normal universe is also classed as one dimension. (2:30 in this vid). So High 3-A compromise is pretty generose considering it could potentially be even higher.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Yes. It is special. In a way that allows them to bypass his intangibility. Yes, it was designed to counter death . . . but they used it incorrectly. They were even confused at it not doing anything. We later learned that they were holding it by the wrong end.

As for this one, the stick can't be used as an anti-feat because it's not a normal stick. It's not a case of "it's a normal stick that just bypassed incoporeality". It's unknown and vague, but seeing as it's blessed by Life, even when used incorrectly it still has some esoteric effect on Death. To say Death would be normal stick level if you bypass his incoporality is...weird.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Anyway @The_real_cal_howard @Dalesean027 @ZephyrosOmega @Zencha9 @Zaratthustra @Sir_Ovens @Tllmbrg @The_one_you_least_excpet @Antvasima

Please give your thoughts if you still care, I think I've said all my thoughts