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Across the Mario-Verse [2-A God Tier Upgrades & Cosmology]

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Foxthefox1000 said:
What's the opposition here again? Side mode = bad? That's it?
Click to expand...
I expounded on it here and here.

But essentially, y'all are taking extremely common video game marketing material that everyone knows is figurative and interpreting it literally, as implying a building that's literally infinitely large, despite not showing anything lore-wise actually pointing to that.

I wouldn't be opposed if it was a different aspect of a side mode which lacked that issue (lets say, if 200 floors into endless mode a character punched through a wall, or gained an unexplained power to rewind time 5 seconds), or if it was cemented anywhere in lore.
 
I think the difference here is that the context is that you're ascending a building and the mode you choose dictates exactly how many floors it has.

If there is another game that specifically has a set location that you can choose the size of with endless as an option I'd like to know of it. As far as I'm aware other endless modes are just an option that exists so you can play as much as you want with no further explanation beyond that and no lore and debatably even canon to begin with, but the Scarescraper is literally canon to Luigi's Mansion and referenced multiple times. Are we just going to assume the floors it has caps at at 100? If we don't accept the endless floor thing then how can we take any size literally? It may as well not exist then if we can't find the floor numbers credible.

That's why I think a possibly rating is a good compromise
 
The very specific context you're referring to (choosing how large a building is) may technically be unique, but there's nothing actually making that more reliable than endless modes in other games (endless amount of years spent on a planet, endless amount of enemy waves, etc.) and so no reason to take the implication of this when we wouldn't of those.

For the question of how many floors to cap it to, I don't really know. I think there's a few decent choices we could make:
  1. Cap it at 100. This was the highest number of floors deliberately programmed into the game.
  2. Cap it at the highest number of floors demonstrated in official Nintendo gameplay footage. This was the largest number of floors acknowledged in any official capacity.
  3. Cap it at the highest number of floors anyone has ever reached. We've seen people actually accomplish it, so we know that it can go that far.
  4. Tinker with the game and find out what its internal cap on that sort of thing is, before everything breaks. Some likely points for this would be the powers of 10, or integer limits (2^16, 2^32, or 2^64).
 
I'll refer you to my earlier posts on why I don't think "endless modes", not backed up by any lore, should be treated seriously.

Although I am curious why y'all aren't going with the other implications of this. Luigi should get, at the bare minimum, Type 1 Immortality if he can spend an infinite amount of time exploring through those infinite floors. Presumably also Self-Sustenance and Infinite stamina too; I don't think we see him sleeping or eating between floors. Of course, similar upgrades would need to happen to other games with endless modes, too.
 
The whole point of asking where we'd cap it is that you don't have a good answer. You say endless isn't good to use as a number, but yet why deny what the game tells us?

The "player" one makes no sense because we know there's more floors even with the person who has the highest record and no person could ever hope to complete the mode since it's literally endless

The fourth uses code from the game because truly programming infinity would not be possible anyways and at that point with those integers why would Infinite be a reach?

Using 100 proves that the floor numbers listed are credible to begin with so again, why deny endless? If you're willing to accept the finite values for the floors why is infinite such a reach?

And you're literally using gameplay from the endless mode in a few of these scenarios, a mode made specifically because there is no cap. There's no use trying to get a cap from endless.

I think in this circumstance the unique aspect of literally choosing the size of a building you make your way through that's canon to Luigi's Mansion should be fine as a possibly rating. Other endless modes like barely if ever refer to the size of something. It's literally just play game until you drop with maybe some slight changes to enemies to spruce up the gameplay. Nothing else to them.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
The whole point of asking where we'd cap it is that you don't have a good answer. You say endless isn't good to use as a number, but yet why deny what the game tells us?
Click to expand...
I think my answers are all pretty good.
Foxthefox1000 said:
The fourth uses code from the game because truly programming infinity would not be possible anyways and at that point with those integers why would Infinite be a reach?
Click to expand...
There is a huge gap between those numbers and infinity. A building with 65,536 floors would be less than 200km tall. It is ludicrous to equalise something so tiny compared to the universe, to infinity.

And yeah! Programming infinity is not possible! Everyone, when buying a game with an endless mode, knows that it's not literally infinite! You're admitting here that it isn't an actual sincere claim that anyone would expect to be taken that way, in that context.
Foxthefox1000 said:
Using 100 proves that the floor numbers listed are credible to begin with so again, why deny endless? If you're willing to accept the finite values for the floors why is infinite such a reach?
Click to expand...
I've given extensive reasons on why I find the number 100 more credible than endless. You can read about it in this post, this post, and my current post.
Foxthefox1000 said:
And you're literally using gameplay from the endless mode in a few of these scenarios, a mode made specifically because there is no cap. There's no use trying to get a cap from endless.
Click to expand...
We could also ignore it if you think there's no point, in which case we'd just go back to 100 floors.
Foxthefox1000 said:
I think in this circumstance the unique aspect of literally choosing the size of a building you make your way through that's canon to Luigi's Mansion should be fine as a possibly rating. Other endless modes like barely if ever refer to the size of something. It's literally just play game until you drop with maybe some slight changes to enemies to spruce up the gameplay.
Click to expand...
There is nothing unique distinguishing "literally choosing the size of a building" from "literally choosing the number of waves of enemies" or "literally choosing the length of time to set your settlement up for" such that one should be treated as infinite, and the others shouldn't be.
 
Agnaa's responses are very much good tho, I can vouch this. (Responding to the ironical "not good answer" comment)
 
That the place starts out as infinite. Reaching the top canonically is supposed to take x number of floors to climb for the number you pick. Japanese also used better wording for the number part? Also they are more treated as separate buildings transported to in the guide.
 
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Agnaa said:
As recorded in the OP. Bolded are staff with traditional voting rights

2-A: LordGriffin1000, DarkDragonMedeus, Planck69, CloverDragon03

2-B, possibly/likely 2-A: KingTempest, Maverick_Zero_X, Dereck03

2-B: Agnaa, Armorchompy, Uchihaslayer
Click to expand...
Okay, so should we use the middle of the road compromise solution, in lack of better options, then?
 
Agnaa said:
As recorded in the OP. Bolded are staff with traditional voting rights

2-A: LordGriffin1000, DarkDragonMedeus, Planck69, CloverDragon03

2-B, possibly/likely 2-A: KingTempest, Maverick_Zero_X, Dereck03

2-B: Agnaa, Armorchompy, Uchihaslayer
Click to expand...
Antvasima said:
Okay, so should we use the middle of the road compromise solution, in lack of better options, then?
Click to expand...
@LordGriffin1000 @DarkDragonMedeus @Planck69 @CloverDragon03 @KingTempest @Maverick_Zero_X @Dereck03 @Agnaa @Armorchompy
 
Most votes for the first two options were made before Agnaa's counterarguments so I'm gonna
Agnaa said:
That doesn't change the part that I think matters.

The part that I care about is the equivalence of "endless mode" to "a literally infinitely large space exists that this character can go through in this game mode". That is a ludicrously overly-literal reading of common gaming terminology that isn't seriously interpreted by anyone involved as actually meaning literal infinity. Computers can't handle you going through 10^10^10^10 floors in a video game, even with endless time. A company would not get sued for lying about it being endless if it ran was unable to go more than 3 trillion levels in (requiring 1,000,000 years of continuous play). This idea is fundamentally flawed.

Such modes shouldn't be used for such claims unless they're strongly established as literally involving infinite places in lore.
Click to expand...
Agnaa said:
I expounded on it here and here.

But essentially, y'all are taking extremely common video game marketing material that everyone knows is figurative and interpreting it literally, as implying a building that's literally infinitely large, despite not showing anything lore-wise actually pointing to that.

I wouldn't be opposed if it was a different aspect of a side mode which lacked that issue (lets say, if 200 floors into endless mode a character punched through a wall, or gained an unexplained power to rewind time 5 seconds), or if it was cemented anywhere in lore.
Click to expand...
Agnaa said:
I think my answers are all pretty good.

There is a huge gap between those numbers and infinity. A building with 65,536 floors would be less than 200km tall. It is ludicrous to equalise something so tiny compared to the universe, to infinity.

And yeah! Programming infinity is not possible! Everyone, when buying a game with an endless mode, knows that it's not literally infinite! You're admitting here that it isn't an actual sincere claim that anyone would expect to be taken that way, in that context.

I've given extensive reasons on why I find the number 100 more credible than endless. You can read about it in this post, this post, and my current post.

We could also ignore it if you think there's no point, in which case we'd just go back to 100 floors.

There is nothing unique distinguishing "literally choosing the size of a building" from "literally choosing the number of waves of enemies" or "literally choosing the length of time to set your settlement up for" such that one should be treated as infinite, and the others shouldn't be.
Click to expand...
@DarkDragonMedeus @LordGriffin1000 @Planck69 @KingTempest @Maverick_Zero_X @Dereck03

The disagree votes were made after Agnaa's argument and align with it so I don't deem it necessary to tag Uchiha.
 
Agnaa said:
As recorded in the OP. Bolded are staff with traditional voting rights

2-A: LordGriffin1000, DarkDragonMedeus, Planck69, CloverDragon03

2-B, possibly/likely 2-A: KingTempest, Maverick_Zero_X, Dereck03

2-B: Agnaa, Armorchompy, Uchihaslayer
Click to expand...
Looking at the Agnaa's vote tally, I will be updating it.

Disagreements are Agnaa, Armorchompy, Uchihaslayer, Damage3245, Planck69, Maverick (6)

It is 2:2:6

It seems there is sufficient consensus that the proposal in the thread is being rejected.

The thread can be closed.
 
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