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Across the Mario-Verse [2-A God Tier Upgrades & Cosmology]

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Foxthefox1000 said:
I've literally already explained that if you use ALL statements for Future Dream and not just the one, you get the fact it's dreams of the universe anyways (pretty consistently too). You can try and say it's a vague "outer space" with Uchuu but when we have the English text backing the universe interpretation I think we're fine there.

Also, unending dreams still means that a single person has to dream up an infinite sized one.
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I mean nobody’s trying to debunk Future Dream being a universe right now. It is lol, it’s supported just fine in the og text and the supporting Eng text. What some people are debating is if Future Dream’s size can be scaled to other dreams, which I don’t think it can’t.

Also future dream being infinite is only supported from that one translation, which after newer translation shows it doesn’t mean in the spatial sense, it means in the “never ending” sense.

Foxthefox1000 said:
You can't have a finite amount of things make up an infinite space. It just requires an infinite amount at that point.
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this thread is literally trying to prove that there’s an infinite amount of potential dreamers, which would thus back the idea of future dream only being scalable to its size because it’s a collective…
 
Agnaa said:
There is nothing in the blog like that. The closest is the Nintendo of America preview where they're just talking about the settings for it where they mention the endless mode (not a lore statement in an interview, just a game mechanic).
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The descriptions of the size are as already starting as endless so it would count as lore independent from that endless mechanic; especially the TV dialogue on the purple box explaining the new location. The location is an endless ScareScaper that they climb so again it's not due to the Luigis adversity.

Agnaa said:
unless you think the country is infinitely large
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The Sabuko context is Sabuko (Subcon) is called a dream world in its own right, the land is just part of it, extending to the stars and such held on that world that we see in the night levels which are further confirmed as stars in the official guide for smb2.

I'm not going to enable the Super Paper Mario / Paint/ etc. arguments since I'm overall neutral on those and imo they involve some Wario cross scaling. Don't mind particularly if you want to discuss it though.
 
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Mephistus said:
The descriptions of the size are as already starting as endless so it would count as lore independent from that endless mechanic; especially the TV dialogue on the purple box explaining the new location. The location is an endless ScareScaper that they climb so again it's not due to the Luigis adversity.
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Where is this statement you're talking about? Since I can't find it in the blog.
Mephistus said:
The Sabuko context is Sabuko (Subcon) is called a dream world in its own right, the land is just part of it, extending to the stars and such held on that world that we see in the night levels which are further confirmed as stars in the official guide for smb2.
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It still doesn't say what you claim it does; you claimed it said that "as many dream worlds exist as people who dream in the verse", but that was not said.

EDIT: I've come to think that this was wrong, and that the video was badly translated.
 
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I'll check my notes.


I think you are under the impression the Subcon inhabitants are being referenced there as the people seeing dreams; rather than the picture showing him hopping between dreams with the outside being dream bubbles of real world people sleeping below. So I'm not really sure what the actual duck.
 
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Mephistus said:
I think you are under the impression the Subcon inhabitants are being referenced there as the people seeing dreams; rather than the picture showing him hopping between dreams with the outside being dream bubbles of real world people sleeping below. So I'm not really sure what the actual duck.
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No, I'm saying that the translation says that there are as many Subcon inhabitants (called Subco) as there are dreams. I can tell from listening to it that they're referred to without an "n", while the country is referred to with an "n" (which can be seen at the start of the video).

It seems weird, given what we're explicitly told, to assume that the image is showing a literal representation of Birdo jumping between two separate dream space-times, rather than an artistic representation of Birdo going around parts of Subcon.

EDIT: I've come to think that this was wrong, and that the video was badly translated.
 
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Mephistus said:
Ah ok that's something I wouldn't know about I just read subs man.

The translation I got doesn't specify that; so news to me
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Actually ****, listening again I think I was wrong. I relied on when the translations included the "n" or didn't, but that seems inaccurate. It seems machine translated, and looking at the context of what's actually said, I don't think there is a distinction. There are as many of those realms as there are people who dream.

I'm gonna go back and edit my posts to account for this.
 
Agnaa said:
Don't ignore that the 7 are split 4-3 over whether it should be solid, or just a "possibly/likely". That distinction still needs to be worked out.
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With regard to that 4-3, flat vs 'likely/possibly' split that's seeming to hold up progress within the thread, what else should be discussed that may not have been already? For example, was there something in particular within the original blog that is in need of discussion besides what has already been discussed? Something that could use more explanation, or be expanded upon within that blog that may get the ball rolling again?
 
Mephistus said:
I have actually a scan or two I'd like to share if you guys don't mind waiting a day for translation. It's from the Japanese version of lm2. (Which btw the hd version will have ScareScaper :))
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That's definitely alright but I feel like unless it's contextualizing the endless mode idk if it will mean much.
 
I think just rate them as "2-B, likely/possibly 2-A" as a compromise as there are people that are still iffy on a flat 2-A rating (and it would be nice as Sonic and Mario would have the exact same rating lol).
 
Idk who is making the downgrade thread, whoever you are, please just do it here before this thread conclude as it will save time. Meph bought ya some extra time. Appreciated.
 
Well it will save more time? And not only that you'll build a stronger arguments of a non 2-A cosmology It'll be a lot easier for a separate downgrade thread to get FRA'd without second thought. Especially a mario downgrade thread since its normal practice here. Those are my few cents.
 
ZespeonGalaxy said:
Well it will save more time? And not only that you'll build a stronger arguments of a non 2-A cosmology It'll be a lot easier for a separate downgrade thread to get FRA'd without second thought. Especially a mario downgrade thread since its normal practice here. Those are my few cents.
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So the main reason you're suggesting this is because if I didn't do it this way, people would agree with me? Hmmmm yes very sound logic I must concede, well played.

In any case, dropping a massive CRT in the middle of a CRT that most staff have already moved on from is incredibly stupid. It won't even save time, because people will be far more likely to evaluate a new CRT than a CRT contained within another CRT.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
CRT that most staff have already moved on from is
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Or they are waiting for mephs translation. 🧐 just suggesting whatever counterargument is against tier 2-A. Thats what I look forward to, to be said here. Regardless whether you drop your crt itll probably get fra’d cause oh no cosmic mario is no good apparently. My last cent since its derailing now.
 
ZespeonGalaxy said:
Or they are waiting for mephs translation. 🧐 just suggesting whatever counterargument is against tier 2-A. Thats what I look forward to, to be said here. Regardless whether you drop your crt itll probably get fra’d cause oh no cosmic mario is no good apparently. My last cent since its derailing now.
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We have to wait on some translation stuff as well, just some final confirmations really, but we have no idea when they’re coming, so it wouldn’t be the best idea to drop them here and now, especially not in a thread that already has majority agreement and something that would require making an entire new cosmology blog for lol.
 
As recorded in the OP. Bolded are staff with traditional voting rights

2-A: LordGriffin1000, DarkDragonMedeus, Planck69, CloverDragon03

2-B, possibly/likely 2-A: KingTempest, Maverick_Zero_X, Dereck03

2-B: Agnaa, Armorchompy, Uchihaslayer
 
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I was told content mods weren't by Ant a while ago. Plus, our Discussion Rules say
In order to ensure that all revisions are thoroughly reviewed and approved, it is necessary for a minimum of two staff members to sign off on any proposed changes. The concluding evaluations must be handled by Thread Moderators, Administrators, and Bureaucrats, who should make an effort to base their evaluations on valid arguments, not personal opinions.
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