Accelerator's Post-headshot key

[Scrlk666777]

There seems to be a bit of confusion about his Post-headshot key and this is causing confusion on why other characters like Kakine, Gabriel, Fiamma and Fuze=Kazakiri haven't been upgraded.


Should Post headshot have two seperate keys? Pre NT 22 and Post NT 22?


This was suggested in the main thread by Peter1129

AP: 7-B, High 6-A with Earth's energy | 7-B, High 6-C with Black Wings, higher with White Wings, High 6-A with Earth's energy | At least 5-B likely higher, higher with Black and White Wings | 4-B

Keys: Pre-Headshot | Post-Headshot (Pre-NT22) | Post-Headshot (Post-NT22) | Platinum Wings


I think this might stop the confusion.

Thoughts? Do you think that it should be changed or kept as it is?

 

[Peter1129]

Also remove the at least for Pre-NT22 Black Wings I accidentally added that when I was making the suggestion and forgot to remove it afterwards. His black wings was originally just High 6-C before the update not at least High 6-C.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Done

 

[Accelerate420]

Well it'd be weird to have two separate keys when they're the same char. Then again there's a few heavy differences in combat gear like Aeon magic interferance/soulhax/full on regen negation and such. I'd say having pre-headshot key is enough and NT22 should just be the current key or whatever. If anyone else thinks it'll be better for threads to have them separate then I guess that's fine, but if we do this we're gonna end up making post-(volume) key again with his next huge power-up so it feels like an overcomplication.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I would rather have the wings separated. Especially the Platinum Wings, since they require outside help to use.

 

[XDragnoir]

I agree with this suggestion. Btw, if this is accepted, will the previous matches return to the profile? Since the form used in most matches won no buff.

 

[Scrlk666777]

I would rather have the wings separated. Especially the Platinum Wings, since they require outside help to use.

I agree that Platinum wings should be a seperate key regardless. I fixed it in the OP.

 

[Peter1129]

I would rather have the wings separated. Especially the Platinum Wings, since they require outside help to use.

Only Platinum Wings as a separate key or all the wings as a separate key? I'm guessing the former right? Cause the latter would make his profile really cluttered.

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

I don't agree. this isn't a new form or anything, the only thing that changed between nt21 and nt22 is that he gained new info and doesn't need a second key.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Things he has gained in NT 22 are: Knowledge beyond the Abyss and the 78 tarot cards. Being beyond Aeons. The Clonoth

Tbf we haven't seen what any of this means yet or what new powers he might have gained from it.

 

[Accelerate420]

We can infer that him existing beyond aeons, it allows magical interferance from Coronzon who shares the same properties and his feats against neph, whose entire body is magic, is permanently damaged now. The 78 tarot cards, you'll likely need to read a Crowley book for that but even then we don't know how applicable that is to battle yet.

 

[Accelerate420]

Though tbh, he should be above even Coronzon as he went beyond the Tree itself and 'went past Keter', and Coronzon, who is beyond aeons, can only move up and down the Tree itself.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Speaking of which magical interfence still needs to be added to his page.

Yes, techically since he crossed the Abyss and then went past Keter with the new tree, he should techically be above Coronzon.

 

[Malox1696]

Guys, accel didn't really get any raw power upgrades in the novel, his pre head shoot key still has double his calculation power, the only thing he gained from ot 3 to nt22 (leaving aside wings) was the knowledge of magic vector which he can't still use without support but can divert them and new ideas for vector control, technically speaking all his feats about reflection and raw ap (not counting magic) apply to pre head shoot and ot accel, the only thing pre head shoot lacks from post head shoot is attack variety, as he did not experiment much, and magic knowledge (and 545)

 

[Accelerate420]

There are other upgrades. He clearly has more than just 'knowledge of magic vectors' as he demonstrated with Neph and literally soul-haxed Coronzon. That's an underplay.

 

[Malox1696]

i said without support and wings , with 545 he has much more things, but the 1c reflection and his raw force AP should be applicable to all key actually

edit: and technically speaking his pushing and lifting strength (not destructive) should scale with his reflection, as we even got confirmation he can reflect the rebounding force of his strike

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

Accelerators clashes with coronzon/ neph was before his epiphany (which is what hos base rating right now is on) and plat wings is what I meant if I wasnt clear when i said theres no diff between nt 21-22 accel

 

[Accelerate420]

To be fair, even without support now he should still be able to carry these magical interferance properties, as the wings were a byproduct of the Clonoth. He should, logically, retain his ability to use 'invisible vectors' to gimp Aeon magic in base key. All Qlip does is support him with the knowledge, but to Accelerator, knowledge is power, and he learned how to do so through that knowledge.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

How come there is no description for his platinum wings and there is for his other wings? just no one has written one yet or?

 

[Malox1696]

To be fair, even without support now he should still be able to carry these magical interferance properties, as the wings were a byproduct of the Clonoth. He should, logically, retain his ability to use 'invisible vectors' to gimp Aeon magic in base key. All Qlip does is support him with the knowledge, but to Accelerator, knowledge is power, and he learned how to do so through that knowledge.

deflecting magic was always possible for him (at least for the physical magic), but generally he has to get 545 support to understand magic and the Will permission to access the tree

 

[Accelerate420]

To be fair, even without support now he should still be able to carry these magical interferance properties, as the wings were a byproduct of the Clonoth. He should, logically, retain his ability to use 'invisible vectors' to gimp Aeon magic in base key. All Qlip does is support him with the knowledge, but to Accelerator, knowledge is power, and he learned how to do so through that knowledge.

deflecting magic was always possible for him (at least for the physical magic), but generally he has to get 545 support to understand magic and the Will permission to access the tree

I know, but his magical interfearance isn't a bypoduct of Will. The Clonoth was will's permission. Magical Interfearance has nothing to do with the tree itself. It's a byproduct of Qlippy having administrator rights in the system and allowed her to regain her role as an Abyss Guider and full functions. He gained the ability in base key to interfer with magic and possibly null it (maybe.) Through gaining the knowledge of the Abyss. It's not like that knowledge would just suddenly disappear from his brain if Qliphah is not there when he already experienced it. This has always been the case for Accel, who when experiencing something and learning, is able to do it whenever he wants (with the exception of outsourcing like the song/etc). Qliphah is there to fill in the blanks, yes, but he still should have a grasp on how to interfer with Aeon magic now that he has crossed the Abyss.

 

[Malox1696]

yes but it's not really related to durability or AP, his only upgrade is his magic knowledge

 

[Accelerate420]

Saying its his only 'upgrade' isn't what I'd call it, but yes. The durability/AP should be shared with all keys technically (aside from Wings keys of course). Meaning sub-rev/planet level/etc.

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

^agreed.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Guys, accel didn't really get any raw power upgrades in the novel, his pre head shoot key still has double his calculation power, the only thing he gained from ot 3 to nt22 (leaving aside wings) was the knowledge of magic vector which he can't still use without support but can divert them and new ideas for vector control, technically speaking all his feats about reflection and raw ap (not counting magic) apply to pre head shoot and ot accel, the only thing pre head shoot lacks from post head shoot is attack variety, as he did not experiment much, and magic knowledge (and 545)

Pre headshot lacks a few things actually which I just put above this comment. While Accel could always deflect certain magic attacks if the mechanics he understood.

Again, Magic interfence, being Beyond Aeons, the Clonoth, gaining knowledge that is beyond the abyss and the 78 tarot cards are not a by product but permeant. He also understands laws that was previously unknown to him. All of these things should apply to his base form by the way and not just his platinum wings.

Also what does calculation power with his pre head-shot and his post head-shot self have to do with anything? You keep bringing that up but I don't understand why.

Kamachi himself has stated that Accel's powers continue to grow, Accel gets more powerful the more knowledgeable he gets which doesn't necessarily have to include calucuations and calculations or not he still couldn't do half the stuff he could do now because he didn't have the knowledge to do so.

Pre head-shot doesn't really have much of anything to do here anyway.

 

[XDragnoir]

Anyway, I think the pre-headshot already had the strength limit of the reflection removed, so any other addition would be unlikely.

 

[Accelerate420]

The only thing that should be added to pre-headshot is the same AP and durability stats along with speed really. Yes, he does get 'stronger', but it's not as if his vectors or speed gets physically better. He always had the stats, he just didn't bother displaying them really because he hadn't thought about it yet. Either way it's fine, I just think it makes sense to give him the same stats across the board but so long as the stats are there in general I guess it's not a big deal, just a thought.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Reflection should be the same regardless as Accel's reflection ignores magnitude which should also be the case Pre headshot but no nothing else pre-headshot should change and it should stay Tier/AP 7-B/City Level with 6-A/Multi-continental with borrowing earth's energy. Theoretically he could have but it can't be proven.

But as I said above Pre-headshot Accel doesn't really have much to do with anything. Only his Post-headshot self does.

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

Accelerate420 is spot on.

 

[Accelerate420]

Well it doesn't matter to me, but it's not like Accel learned a new method to move as fast as he does or hit as hard as he does, that's my point, pre-headshot should still scale but I'm fine with leaving it as is if that's not good enough proof.

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

I don't really see any good argument against it, myself.

 

[Scrlk666777]

The trouble with upgrading his Pre-headshot AP and Speed would mean upgrading others, which I don't agree with.

I think the only one I agree with his Fiamma but for different reasons as his LPSAD key should probably read 5-B, likely higher or even 5-B, likely far higher.

It's possible that Accel has always been on Planetary level and Sub-Rel in speed but the trouble is he has never shown these feats until recently regardless of whether or not he has always been on that level or not.

The trouble is it's a what he could always do vs. what he has shown to be able to do argument.

 

[Malox1696]

yes but he didn't get any upgrades on his calculation power, all he gained during the story were his magic knowledge and new way to apply his vector control, punching is not related, speed maybe but his reaction time are the same at least

leaving aside that he should have 1 c pushing and lifting strength for his passive vector reflection

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

No one should scale to Accelerator pre injury because he never tries at anything.

 

[Scrlk666777]

@Malox

Again Calculation power doesn't have anything to do with anything here. It should be clear to you that Post-Headshot Accel is stronger than Pre-Headshot Accel due to various reasons.

Obtaining magical knowledge is one of the things that makes him stronger compared to his Pre-Headshot self.

Plus imo the whole calculation thing has never really been an issue and apart from Accel saying he only has less than half of his original calculating abilites, it's never actually really been shown that he was weaker. The only things that has hindered him is the 15/30 minutes battery life and Electrical interfence.

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

perhaps he should have a variable tier. something like:

Attack Potency: Varies. City level up to At least Planet level if serious

 

[Malox1696]

@Malox
Again Calculation power doesn't have anything to do with anything here. It should be clear to you that Post-Headshot Accel is stronger than Pre-Headshot Accel due to various reasons.

Obtaining magical knowledge is one of the things that makes him stronger compared to his Pre-Headshot self.

Plus imo the whole calculation thing has never really been an issue and apart from Accel saying he only has less than half of his original calculating abilites, it's never actually really been shown that he was weaker. The only things that has hindered him is the 15/30 minutes battery life and Electrical interfence.

accel ability it's never been about power, it literally works by calculation the starting vector and the desired one


"For Accelerator, that could be lethal. In order to alter vectors, he needed to calculate the vector before changing it and the vector afterward. His unconscious reflection was no more than him solving the simplest equations without thinking about them."

obv having less calculation power means he can't control more complex equations (not bigger number but more variable)

when he punches something obv the attack would scale with whatever he is hitting thanks to the reflection (not really destructive force just pushing one), while any other ranged attack he uses would only get boosted to the max he can calculate

 

[Scrlk666777]

@Malox

By the way 1-C pushing and lifting power? There's no 1-C in lifting strength. It's done by Class. So what would be immeasureable, I think.

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

well, more calculation power means you can handle more complex vectors at once.

A battle between espers is a battle between calculation ability aswell, a theory mina explicitly showed accelerator the hard way.

In his manga he also lacked the calculation ability to keep up with the taotei and the qiong xi (Whatever those mechs name were) and thus their ability when working in conjunction were able to affect him. once he defeated one of them the other ones ability couldn't harm him anymore, with Accelerator noting you can't harm him with calculations that sloppy.

 

[Malox1696]

to be noted they were both lvl 5 "robot" and accel had half his calculation powers