Accelerator's Post-headshot key

[Malox1696]

No it hasn't been hinted that his angel forms drain more stamina. The only thing that happens is that he seems to lose quite a bit of energy after the wings but not with the wings. There was no sign of it after Platinum wings though.

Well it was hinted in nt 6 by kekinay, but using active vector control already drains stamina (all esper work like that) his reflection tho does not as it's cost is almost 0 (works while asleep) so it's like - 3 minutes over him not using them or something Platinum tho should not Drain stamina unless he mixes magic

 

[Malox1696]

"You partially installed the power's directionality into the calculations for your power? Tch. That is the number 11 which exists in the Qliphoth yet is not an imaginary number. Is that the guide to the upside-down tree I built? This awkward product of science has insolently reached the level of Probationer!?"

"Yeah, that's right. I'm new around here, so be nice. And I thought newcomers were called Neophytes, but whatever. Now, don't forget this one thing: I'm not like you people who've stopped working after mastering these things. I'm going to absorb as much as I can to keep growing as much as possible!!"

"…!!"

In other words, the more power he was given, the stronger he would grow. Just like launching a largescale cyber-attack on the enemy, only to have them analyze it and learn how to do it themselves.

^I dunno how you can say Accel powers cant grow any stronger when you read these parts.

Stronger =/= more calculation powers, he can become stronger by controlling more forces, exploring magic, more efficient formulas, in fact that's the point of accel and how Aleister wanted to use him, a perfect learing and translating machine, any unknown force is translated, added and reverse engineered ( he will be a monster once he fully learns magic)

 

[Scrlk666777]

@ZERO7772

Malox is clining to something that was said nearly 40 volumes ago even though there is plenty of evidence of Accel's powers growing stronger both in the actual novels, like you pointed out and Kamachi himself.

@Malox

No he said that he can't substain the winged forms for that long and he was only guessing, like he was only guessing when he said the wings were made out of Dark Matter, which they aren't. Kakine doesn't actually know anything about the wings.

 

[Malox1696]

That's why I said hinted, and it makes sense considering we already know esper power cost stamina(or something) so using them more and controlling more forces = more stamina spent, but we can't quantify it

He does get stronger but he does not gain increased calculation power as it's literally not his, and again reflection is 1 equation unlike vector control 1c shield is for all forms

 

[Scrlk666777]

The wings aren't connected to his esper power, they are seperate and the stamnia issue has never been a problem for Accel at all.

There you go again about the calculation power. It was said nearly 40 volumes ago. Things change and it's been stated many times that his power has grown stronger, again both by the author himself and the actual text.

And also does it really matter if the calculation power isn't his own? All that matters is that we know he has grown stronger. Like in OT 21 he struggled against Gabriel big time but I have no doubt that if he fought Gabriel again now Accel would win, even in base. Why? Because he's grown stronger since OT 21.

 

[ZERO7772]

Isn't this getting off topic? Are we giving Accel a new key or not?

 

[Scrlk666777]

@ZERO7772

Yes it is. This was the problem in the first place when it went off topic and it'll probably keep going off topic as well.

I don't think we're going to get anywhere with this.

 

[Malox1696]

Obv he would trash Gabriel, his magic can't harm him now that it's update with magic data and he can simply trash him by cutting his power source, I don't understand why u get angry at me, he does get stronger u are just pointing the finger at the wrong attributes, he updating his formulas is much better (consider that formulas alone can boost from lvl 4 to 5 and the dark may project exist) as his calculations power right now is only bested by multiple connected lvl 5 or mass processing devices like Mina, the angel form best attributes are not the boost to his calculations but instead the increased forces he can manipulate and understand

Edit:for some reason u think this is nerf but it's not

 

[Scrlk666777]

@Malox

I'm not angry at you. Why would you think that? I just don't understand where you are trying to go with all of this or rather what you are trying to say.

Are you trying to say that there's no difference between Pre NT 22 Accel and Post NT 22 Accel?

 

[Malox1696]

There are differences but are they worth the new key ? As AP and dura will be applied to other forms is it worth a new key or do we keep 1 with everything? In my opinion just keep 1 but it's the others choice (I don't like bloated key)

But as said I would update all key with the field upgrade and the dura negation/AP scaling (from reflection) for all key (it's his minimum force with just reflection using vector control he can achieve more ex: vs a 7c he can use just reflection for AP of 7a or add in vector control for much higher power, vs 3a he would just have reflection to boost his melee to 3a but vector control is 5b so not much to add) as explained above

 

[Scrlk666777]

Tbh we don't really know enough about this newly acquired magical knowledge and how effective it will be in regards of his vector manipulation and his reflection. It didn't really help that his fight with Neph wasn't seen after he gained the abyss knowledge and had the 78 cards installed in him. I mean this is knowledge that Aleister himself desperately wanted, and got in the end.

I think I get where you are coming from now but correct me if I am wrong. You think 5-B should be his base AP for all his forms, including Pre-headshot as he should have the same AP due and dura should be the same.

 

[ZERO7772]

This is ridiculous, his angel forms are much stronger than his base form

 

[Malox1696]

5b for other key I'm unsure (for a lot of reason, mainly magic knowledge for example instead of using the force of the planet and using up all his remaining battery he could have used the telsma in the area to boost his projectile to 5b skipping a lot of calculations and so easily spammable like the waters droplets ) but his reflection update should be applied to all key and the AP scaling/dura negation (up to 1c) too should be applied to all key

 

[Malox1696]

This is ridiculous, his angel forms are much stronger than his base form

Duh it would apply to all forms As all have access to reflection

 

[Scrlk666777]

This is ridiculous, his angel forms are much stronger than his base form

They are but we can't really scale them except Platinum wings, even they are likely to be stronger than what we have seen as well.

 

[Peter1129]

So what are the conclusions of this thread bump.

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

Dunno. Forgot what was happening.

 

[Accelerate420]

Bump.


Changes that need to be made are Light and Gravity additions to his profile due to his feats in OT15 and him freely allowing the vectors of light and gravity to affect him in OT5. Pre-headshot should scale to post in terms of speed and AP since Vectors don't magically get stronger the weaker your brain power gets.

 

[SchroKatze]

It wouldn't scale to the winged forms or post nt22 Accel. Anything else gets scaled.

 

[Accelerate420]

No, but post NT22 Accel is still post headshot so it'd scale there, not to the wings. To add, Accelerator with platinum wings should have the added benefit of reflecting 'all magic' or at least something along those lines, as the Curtana could only hit him due to the Phase-slicing mechanic.

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

this whole post 22 stuff isn't even what's being discussed. it's his feats of fighting 5-bs before that. and his pre injury vers is stronger.

I wrote reasons above but Incase people don't read the entire thread i'm still of the opinion to make base pre injury Accel At least 5-b likely far higher

 

[SchroKatze]

Oh, true, true.

And yeah, Curtana would only slice through his barrier if it used the slicing exactly inside of it, otherwise the attack would get reflected.

 

[Accelerate420]

It's weird as hell to make the one with higher calc power the weaker one. The only thing that changed is his application of the ability between them, but in terms of vector power to the vectors (which shouldn't really be quantifyable to begin with but for the sake of the wiki) they should be equal to eachother in that respect, but definitely not scaled to Clonoth.

 

[SchroKatze]

Pre-HS scales due to being more powerful unless the wings are involved. And he will get f'd by magic due to not really understanding it yet (Tho the "weird reflection x magic interaction" still valid.)

 

[Accelerate420]

Yeah, it'd probably be best to maybe put that in to Pre's durability. I think Pre-NT22's key should be pretty much gone entirely though honestly but that's the least of the problems with the profile.

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

Just because he jobs like all hell pre injury doesn't mean he can't match the output of his weaker self who does try.

Honestly don't see a counter to this.^ IIRC I don't recall much disagreements before either, hopefully we can finally resolve this

 

[Accelerate420]

i have no idea how to wiki code so I'm not able to do the deed if it gets unlocked, just a heads up. Hopefully we can get the attention of a mod or admin for this.

 

[SchroKatze]

We should get a Black Wings pic too, just a little addition to the profile.

 

[Malox1696]

Technically speaking his output would always scale to whatever he touches by durability up to 1 c as the reflection is would reflect the force of object resisting the changes, this would be for all keys


add information analysis and analytical prediction thanks to his ability to translate everything he senses to vectors


and is pre head shot form should have 1 c durability too

 

[Accelerate420]

Vectors aren't really quantifiably tierable. Technically yes they should be 1-C or even higher all depending on who is attacking but if we did that we'd get a shit-ton of mismatches.

 

[Malox1696]

well it would just scale to it, it would be no different from durability negation and would only work in melee or where he can apply remote vector control with reflection, reflection is just a formula, if accelerator himself moves instated of the object moving it does not matter (instead of 2b attack coming to accel, he moves towards a 2b durability, durability to changes as breaking moving etc, not whole durability, the situation would be the same)

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

Think we should just ask someone to unlock the profile to apply the changes at this point. if anyone has a issue with this I will kindly reply. Waiting 4 months for this is bad enough.

 

[Scrlk666777]

I think these changes are outdated as there is talk that pre-headshot Accel might be updated to 5-B but either way the page should be unlocked soon enough to apply the new changes that happened in NTR. The thread is already up for that.

Thread:3314289

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

that's all this thread has been talking about though. Sorry I wasn't talking about the OP

 

[Scrlk666777]

There's a tiny bit more discussion in the other thread or rather other things to discuss if this should happen. Like Kakine's scaling to Accel being removed which really he shouldn't have been scaled to Accel in the first place, espeically since Accel was holding back in the first fight. Actually Kakine's AP should really be revised anyway, even without the changes