Abstract Existence for Kingdom Hearts (World)

[Nehz_XZX]

Picking this up from this thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/4008355#277.

First we should make clear what hearts are. A heart is one of three things out of which the average person consists of in Kingdom Hearts. The other two things are the body and the soul which are stated to be separate. There are several statements regarding the nature of the heart:

Xehanort calls his heart his essence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co8TBDdadfQ&feature=youtu.be&t=983

Kairi's heart is referred to as her essence.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/522251946124640268/669829358558380052/20200123_010219.jpg

Chirithy states that the heart being destroyed makes one fade out of existence entirely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co8TBDdadfQ&feature=youtu.be&t=1256

Xemnas says destroying Lea's soul would not affect Lea's heart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeXTCPpHio8&feature=youtu.be&t=230

In the last thread we discussed whether or not this makes hearts concepts. An argument against this was that essences do not automatically qualify as concepts as they are defined on our Conceptual Manipulation page and that hearts need to be of an universal scope in order to qualify.

The resulting question as what concepts that aren't universal in scope qualify led to the creation of this thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/4013199. In the end it didn't really lead to anything. We also still have to decide as what the ability to manipulate hearts qualifies as since this is a pretty major ability for the Kingdom Hearts verse.


Kingdom Hearts should have Abstract Existence for the following reasons:

Kingdom Hearts is the collective heart of the World: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538624028831907850/623252344779309071/unknown.png.

Kingdom Hearts is formed by gathering the hearts of all worlds: https://www.khwiki.com/Xehanort's_Report#Xehanort.27s_Report_III.

Every existence has a heart and the collection of all kinds of hearts results in Kingdom Hearts: https://imgur.com/a/uajMYOt.

"The heart of worlds was a great heart that gathered everything that formed those worlds: the natural things such as the trees in the forests, the oceans and rivers, the flowers and such. A Kingdom Hearts is considered to be an aggregation of the originally invisible "proofs of life" known as hearts.": https://www.khwiki.com/Director's_Secret_Report_XIII#Part_1_-_ABOUT_THE_WORLD_OF_KINGDOM_HEARTS

The presented evidence shows that Kingdom Hearts is made of hearts which are essences and in regards to it's power and the things it embodies, Kingdom Hearts is quite easily universal and beyond in scope. This would give it Abstract Existence (Type 1).


If Kingdom Hearts gets Abstract Existence, then this would result in Conceptual Manipulation for the X-Blade and the Keyblade for the following reasons:

The X-Blade can be used to control Kingdom Hearts which is why Xehanort wanted it in the first place.

This video at 8:19: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvMBFFH3aPw

The Guardians of Light were busy keeping Kingdom Hearts shut due to it being a bigger threat than Xehanort.

This video at 12:13: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vozdC4HlFs.

Sora and the others closed Kingdom Hearts after they defeated Xehanort.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'll follow for now, but may comment later. And prefer more input first.

 

[Elizhaa]

Personally, I am neutral. I do believe Dragon agree with Abstract Existence for Kingdom Hearts (World) in the prior and Conceptual Manipulation for the X-Blade in the thread; I think he said he wasn't sure on Keyblades having Conceptual Manipulation .

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This was something he said on Discord.

But this is why I no longer bother with Kingdom Hearts, Bleach, Kingdom Hearts, Naruto, Kingdom Hearts, Dragon Ball, Kingdom Hearts...Kingdom Hearts...........

 

[Bobsican]

Mmm... I guess we have no choice but to ask non-knownoledgeable staff members at this point, which is already the case anyways.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

This was something he said on Discord.

But this is why I no longer bother with Kingdom Hearts, Bleach, Kingdom Hearts, Naruto, Kingdom Hearts, Dragon Ball, Kingdom Hearts...Kingdom Hearts...........

Who said that?

 

[Elizhaa]

Dragonmasterxyz

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Personally, I am neutral. I do believe Dragon agree with Abstract Existence for Kingdom Hearts (World) in the prior and Conceptual Manipulation for the X-Blade in the thread; I think he said he wasn't sure on Keyblades having Conceptual Manipulation .

Keyblades would have a much weaker version of the Conceptual Manipulation for being able to affect Kingdom Hearts. Multiple Keyblade Wielders together couldn't do much else other than keeping it shut.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Dragonmasterxyz

Does that mean I shouldn't contact him about Kingdom Hearts again?

 

[Antvasima]

Are there people listed in the Knowledgeable Members List or staff members listed in the Kingdom Hearts verse page that you can contact about this? Otherwise we will likely have to leave the KH profiles as they are at the moment.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I've contacted them all with the exception of Mr. Bambu who told me that he passes at Kingdom Hearts.

 

[Bobsican]

As I've said before, I support this stuff, but staff input is needed here.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. You can ask some other staff members as well if you wish.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Currently there is no need. For now I'll just wait.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Does that mean I shouldn't contact him about Kingdom Hearts again?

Should I or should I not contact Dragonmasterxyz because of Kingdom Hearts threads?

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Personally, I am neutral. I do believe Dragon agree with Abstract Existence for Kingdom Hearts (World) in the prior and Conceptual Manipulation for the X-Blade in the thread; I think he said he wasn't sure on Keyblades having Conceptual Manipulation .

If affecting an Abstract Existence (Type 1) is Conceptual Manipulation, then Keyblades definitely have it from being able to keep Kingdom Hearts shut. It would be a pretty minor form of Conceptual Manipulation since said feat was done with multiple Keyblades and they couldn't do anything else.

 

[Antvasima]

Should I or should I not contact Dragonmasterxyz because of Kingdom Hearts threads?

Preferably not, if he has said not to do so.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Preferably not, if he has said not to do so.

Understood.

 

[Antvasima]

This KH thread does not seem nearly as unreasonable as the other ones though, so you can probably ask some other knowledgeable staff members to help out.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

This KH thread does not seem nearly as unreasonable as the other ones though, so you can probably ask some other knowledgeable staff members to help out.

I'd claim that whether or not they are unreasonable is still up to debate. I'll contact the Knowledgeable Members for this thread.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

This KH thread does not seem nearly as unreasonable as the other ones though, so you can probably ask some other knowledgeable staff members to help out.

It seems like as if I already contacted the people that were listed as Knowledgeable Members for Kingdom Hearts. Is there anyone else you'd recommend me to contact?

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe a few administrators and content moderators.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Maybe a few administrators and content moderators.

I've contacted three Administrators and three Content Moderators.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

By the way, as a minor observation, you seem almost as fanatic as I am when it comes to editing this wiki, but the difference is that I am focused on trying to help solve a lot of situations, whereas you mainly seem to cause me more work.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Okay.

By the way, as a minor observation, you seem almost as fanatic as I am when it comes to editing this wiki, but the difference is that I am focused on trying to help solve a lot of situations, whereas you mainly seem to cause me more work.

I am? I'm not really trying to make more work for you.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, my apologies if I was too harsh. I was very tired when I wrote that.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Well, my apologies if I was too harsh. I was very tired when I wrote that.

It did come across as harsh to me but I assumed that it was probably meant less harsh then what it came across as to me. Does the majority of what I'm doing on this wiki really cause more work for you?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, you seem rather overzealous in terms of editing rate, and dealing with all of your discussion threads causes some work for me, yes.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Well, you seem rather overzealous in terms of editing rate, and dealing with all of your discussion threads causes some work for me, yes.

I'll try to refrain myself with the number of discussion threads I make then.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. You can focus on only the most important revisions.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

You're welcome.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

Feel free to contact the staff members listed in the Kingdom Hearts verse page. You can tell them that I would appreciate their input.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Feel free to contact the staff members listed in the Kingdom Hearts verse page. You can tell them that I would appreciate their input.

I have already contacted them shortly after making this thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, you can politely remind them if you wish. This particular KH thread does not seem very controversial.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Okay.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Done.

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

You're welcome.