About "Supporters/Opponents/Neutral" in verse pages and Knowledgeable users (Staff Only)

[Antvasima]

I strongly agree with Medeus.

 

[Bobsican]

Yes, such sections are best remaining overall, but having some more explicit guidelines over what's expected from an user that bothers indexing itself into a respective verse page on these sections is a good idea as said before.
We still need what to agree on for such more explicit guidelines, however.

For the record, this is what we currently have:

Supporters/Opponents/Neutral​

• A section where members who are familiar with a series, or franchise, can add their names under different sections, depending on their opinions about it.

Supporters​

• A list of members who like a certain verse.
• To link a specific user page into the supporters/opponents sections, use the format written below, except for the "" part surrounding the username.
• [[User:"Username"|"Username"]]

Opponents​

• A list of members who dislike a certain verse.

Neutral​

• A list of members who feel neutral about a certain verse.

Overall, I think the "are familiar with a series" part needs to be emphatized, as this keeps being ignored and seems to be the main issue currently.

 

[Slacjow]

I don't think an Opponent is always a person who dislikes the verse.
If I add myself to the Opponents its because I disagree with ratings of that verse, not because I dislike the verse. Why would anyone waste their time to edit a verse page he simply doesn't care about?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I don't think an Opponent is always a person who dislikes the verse.
If I add myself to the Opponents its because I disagree with ratings of that verse, not because I dislike the verse. Why would anyone waste their time to edit a verse page he simply doesn't care about?

Me... I put myself as an Opponent for two verse because I dislike the series'

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

How about members adding a symbol next to their username, to signify that they are interested in participating in CRTs for the verse and want to be contacted for them?

 

[Bobsican]

That seems as something plausible, but optional of course, in the long run it could become consistent at the very least for all the trending series on the site.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

It sounds like a great idea but it'd probably be the most difficult to implement. Graphical changes to how the users are displayed on the forum would take a lot of work, and we'd presumably need to do this both on the wiki and on the forum.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

A minimum-effort implementation is possible, something like: users individually adding [CRT] next to their username in the verse page's Supporters/Opponents/Neutral section if they want to get involved in CRTs.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

A minimum-effort implementation is possible, something like: users individually adding [CRT] next to their username in the verse page's Supporters/Opponents/Neutral section if they want to get involved in CRTs.

That actually doesn't sound half-bad.

 

[Agnaa]

I'd be okay with just adding the [CRT] thing next to people's usernames.

 

[Bobsican]

As many seem to find the above fine, now the only thing left would be to edit a bit the Standard Format for Verse Pages accordingly.
Perhaps just right at the end of the "Supporters/Opponents/Neutral" section the following could be added right after:

Note: If the respective user is knowledgeable and willing to participate in Content Revision Threads, [CRT] is to be added to the name right after the respective username, for example:

Supporters​

• SampleName1
• SampleName2 [CRT]

It's to be noted that on the Supporters/Opponents/Neutral section, one should only index itself on it if it's remotely knowledgeable enought to at least know the currently indexed statistics (This part is open for changes TBH), rather than sheer bias or lack of.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Disagreeing with statistics ratings doesn't really sound like something that should qualify someone as an opponent. Also, I'm not sure if adding [CRT] at the end is the best approach as most people would naturally assuming simply having names or links on the profile encourages contacting them. If you don't want to be contacted, it might be wisest to simply remove name if it comes to that.

 

[Bobsican]

In that case that could be mentioned instead in that case, which would change the note to just:

"Note: Please don't index yourself in this section if you're not willing to participate on Content Revision Threads for it, or aren't knowledgeable enought for such."

 

[Antvasima]

Given that it would take a very long time to properly implement a "[CRT]" revision, and the members who have not added it yet would recurrently be automatically assumed to not want to help out with revisions, it seems more practical to simply change:

"A section where members who are familiar with a series, or franchise, can add their names under different sections, depending on their opinions about it."

To:

"A section where members who are knowledgeable about a series, or franchise, can add their names under different sections, depending on their opinions about it."

What do you think @AKM sama ?

 

[Agnaa]

There is a point there about the people who have already added themselves. Is having different expectations of it going forward worthwhile if people have already added themselves despite not necessarily being knowledgeable about a series?

 

[Bobsican]

Well, yes, as said before, it helps a lot to keep such sections friendly for users regarding CRTs, and not just a list for users to add themselves just to state if they like, dislike or are neutral on a series, especially considering the Standard Format for Verse Pages already asks for this as a sort of requisite, although, as mentioned before, the issue of this being ignored has been noticed.
It could also be cleaned up in the long run, in the same way we've done to the extremely inactive and banned users.

 

[AKM sama]

I strongly disagree with the sentiments in this thread.

We have the Knowledgeable Members list for a reason.

The only reason that "Supporters" is ever the go-to for asking for CRTs is for when people haven't added themselves to the Knowledgeable Members List.

You say While the Knowledgeable Members List is also a thing, that thing isn't updated each time a new verse is made without someone manually doing it. but that holds equally true for the supporters section on the verse page. All of this needs to be done manually, so why would we duplicate a function we already have? It's completely and utterly pointless.

I also think it's very neat to have the Supporters/Opponents/Neutral section not worn down with the baggage of how "knowledgeable" you are about the verse. If you don't care about it that's fine, not everyone has to, but you don't have to take it out for everyone else who does.

If I had followed this thread, I would have said the same thing as Agnaa.

@Ant I think that wording change seems fine. Although, it wouldn't have that much of an effect in practice.

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe "A section where members who are very familiar with a series, or franchise, can add their names under different sections, depending on their opinions about it." would be a better wording?

 

[Bobsican]

Well, I already have in mind some Supporters/Opponents/Neutral sections to clean up in verse pages, but I guess I'll have to manually ask each user for reference at its time.

 

[AKM sama]

Maybe "A section where members who are very familiar with a series, or franchise, can add their names under different sections, depending on their opinions about it." would be a better wording?

If you ask me, the previous wording is fine. For very knowledgeable members who can contribute to verses, we already have the KML. So this supporters/opponents/neutral list doesn't really have to mimic that. Even people who are not so knowledgeable, but still familiar, should be allowed to add their names.

 

[Bobsican]

Just to be sure, in that case members that have no knowledge whatsoever of the series beyond what's on the profiles or the verse page description wouldn't be allowed to be added? Otherwise I have to ask what would be the minimal criteria.

 

[AKM sama]

No, I don't think such members should be added. The purpose of that list is to still serve a purpose, and it does if it contains members who are even somewhat familiar. But those who are not familiar at all (besides the pages and descriptions) just clog up that list for no gain at all. We're still an indexing/debating platform, not a fan site where people can just come and add themselves in a list for no reason at all.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. AKM sama is probably correct.

I suppose that we should drop this discussion then.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, we still have to specify the minimal criteria or so, or otherwise leave it up to the user to a degree like how the Knowledgeable Members List works.

 

[Antvasima]

Bobsican, we have told you that we think that it is a bad idea to enforce any changes, and you seriously need to tone down your sheer intensity in general. I appreciate that you are trying to help, but we are very overworked right now, and do not have the time to constantly deal with all of your different suggestions.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, that part could be kept for another day in that case.
For now what has been agreed on can be applied.
Or in other words, this thread should be closed, we already got some references and clarifications from this regarding the respective "issue".

 

[Antvasima]

We agreed to not do anything.

 

[Bobsican]

Correct, so this thread can be closed, as said before.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for being reasonable.