Removing Power of the Verse from Verse pages

[DMUA]

Or at least the template, obviously instating this as a mass edit that has to be done IMMEDIATELY just bogs things down

Either way, to the point... Does anyone actually use this as a frame of reference? Like, let's look at how the standard format describes the purpose of this section.

This section should explain how strong the characters/items in the series are in general, and what sort of abilities that they hold.

Alright, that's cool, but you know what else (ideally) explains how strong the characters/items in a series are. along with their abilities?

The actual pages linked to the verse.

They also provide substantially more nuance and explanation than one section can afford, without bogging you from actually directly viewing the characters within said verse that you came to look at. I can't speak for everyone, but I've personally never felt any strong desire to actually put significant effort into it, exactly because going into any detail would just be prattling on in a both inferior and redundant fashion.

That's all

 

[KLOL506]

Get ready to be decimated by Ant and his bureaucrat army

 

[KingTempest]

Here we go
Although I agree. "This is a very strong verse" for the tier 6 goobers when there's 6 other full tiers above that

 

[Planck69]

Sure, I suppose.

 

[DMUA]

Get ready to be decimated by Ant and his bureaucrat army

If he has a strong take on it, I guess that's how it's going to go, but this isn't really a statistics change or even truly major, given the quality of... basically all Power of the Verse sections, I think?

Like, I visited the very first thing that popped into my head, RWBY, and let's see here...

Although starting out relatively small in terms of power, the verse has grown as the series went on, showing off a great variety of techniques. It is also fast, having clocked in some hefty hypersonic speeds before the first episode even aired.

To start, students from Huntsmen Academies are around Large Building level, with the main characters and Pro Huntsmen being Multi-City Block level.

The Maidens such as Cinder Fall are Small City level from her breaking through Ozpin's shield and are comparable to each other in strength. Ozpin also sits at this level for visibly injuring Cinder with the full power of the Fall Maiden.

Some objects in the verse are also capable of powerful feats. The Long Memory, wielded by Ozpin and later Oscar Pine varies in strength based on the output released, but the highest shown is Mountain level for destroying Monstra and the surrounding Tempest storm. The Relic of Creation sits at Island level for its casual feat of lifting and maintaining the city of Atlas in the air.

For top tiers, Salem at her strongest stands at Large Island level for lifting and launching an entire river of Grimm Liquid. Ozma, the original form of Ozpin, also stands at this level for battling equally against her, matching her magic and killing her multiple times.

Finally, the verse also has two supreme beings, the Gods of Light and Darkness, one of whom is responsible for the shattered state of Remnant's moon. The two were also responsible for the creation of Acres in the Ever After, an alternate realm, with some possessing starry skies, making them Multi-Solar System level in power.

It has...

• Outdated statistics that people just forgot to update in light of any recent revisions
• The speed rating is mentioned once, out of bold, and never brought up again as attack potency escalates
• No abilities listed whatsoever
• Only briefly mentions why things are even at that tier, as I mentioned this is sorta something chronic to the section's concept innately

In general, it's not really very helpful and just provides another thing to edit which people seem to pretty consistently forget about.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Always felt like a redundant section to me, personally. I don't mind this at all.

 

[CurrySenpai]

I agree somewhat but mainly because people just don’t put enough work into them to make them actually useful/informative.

Regardless, yeah, hopefully you don’t get Appeal to Tradition’d. God speed, DMUA

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Alright, that's cool, but you know what else (ideally) explains how strong the characters/items in a series are. along with their abilities?

The actual pages linked to the verse.

there are abilities and characters/feats that don't have profiles/aren't linked to the verse... So knowing how strong the verse is also deals with outliers and other stuff kinda

Otherwise kinda natural currently while leaning with disagreeing

In general, it's not really very helpful and just provides another thing to edit which people seem to pretty consistently forget about.

This is true tho but most of the time it's because people cluttered it with too much unnecessary information I feel like

 

[DMUA]

there are abilities and characters/feats that don't have profiles/aren't linked to the verse...

They should be, though. If you're going to make a whole verse page, you should be able to fill it up with different profiles that would still express this (Unless specific characters just don't have information to make a page from, by which case they're irrelevant and shouldn't be noted whatsoever)

So knowing how strong the verse is also deals with outliers and other stuff kinda

I'd think it'd do the opposite, if anything. It just gives you the highest end stuff with minimal detail, that's not going to tip you off on a rating not being consistent with what's shown in the series (Especially if people just don't update it and thus actively misinform you about what isn't an outlier, as I presented by throwing out RWBY offhand)

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

there are abilities and characters/feats that don't have profiles/aren't linked to the verse... So knowing how strong the verse is also deals with outliers and other stuff kinda

Outliers, generally speaking, don't get added to that section regardless.

In any case, we have the Calculations section for that sort of thing.

 

[Megaraptor149]

Agree, because sometimes i lazy do write Powers of the Verse when doing Verse page Creation.

 

[LordTracer]

I agree, it’s a pretty redundant section and the Calculations section (plus the actual profiles, of course) should be more than enough to show how strong a verse is.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Outliers, generally speaking, don't get added to that section regardless.

In any case, we have the Calculations section for that sort of thing.

And not everything gets calculated or even accepted to begin with since people don't have any clue how strong the verse is, making the process much more slower...

They should be, though. If you're going to make a whole verse page, you should be able to fill it up with different profiles that would still express this (Unless specific characters just don't have information to make a page from, by which case they're irrelevant and shouldn't be noted whatsoever)

Or specific characters just haven't gotten a profile yet or may never will... Which is possible and the information from the verse will be quite informative for that

I'd think it'd do the opposite, if anything. It just gives you the highest end stuff with minimal detail, that's not going to tip you off on a rating not being consistent with what's shown in the series (Especially if people just don't update it and thus actively misinform you about what isn't an outlier, as I presented by throwing out RWBY offhand)

Don't know about RWBY but if many characters can move and are stated FTL yet have no profiles for any of them, the verse page will be the only one to inform you about any of that

At that point if we aren't going to inform the people about the powers of the verse, there's no point in having a summary as well since profiles can do that instead also... That's how I see it

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I do agree that "Powers of the Verse" is kinda redundant as it is, however, if I was to make it useful, I'd complete change it.

What would I change it to? Well, I think I'd use the entire section to list who people scale to, so that users can figure out scaling chains without having to use guess work or hunting through pages to find which character has the feat explanation.

I'd format it something like:

Character A (MHS+): Character B. Character C, Character D etc.
Character A (High 6-A): Character B, Character C,, Character D etc.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

What would I change it to? Well, I think I'd use the entire section to list who people scale to, so that people can figure out scaling chains without having to use guess work or hunting through pages to find which character has the feat explanation.

don't they kinda already do that? I guess that's like an optional thing instead of a necessary thing

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

And not everything gets calculated or even accepted to begin with since people don't have any clue how strong the verse is, making the process much more slower...

Then.....just calculate the feats you want to have calculated? It's not like we can just eyeball ratings for feats without calculations, anyway.
And if something is rejected for whatever reason, then that means it's deemed incorrect by our standards. As a result, it's obviously not going to be added to the forefront of the Verse Page.

I'm just really not seeing how a combination of the Calculations section and the profiles doesn't solve all of these problems you're bringing up.

You want to list all of the Verse's calculations, even the ones that aren't used on the profiles? The calculations section will do a far more comprehensive job of that than the "Power of the Verse" section ever could.

You want to see how powerful individual characters are, as well as their powers, abilities, intelligence, etc? Then the profiles are the way to go for you.

It's really simple. That section is just redundant, and it doesn't help that 99.9% of the time it has zero effort put into it.

 

[Wokistan]

I also like how nobody can agree on what counts as relatively strong or weak or whatever so you have series that cap out at tier 8 being called strong (because in real world terms, tier 8 is indeed very high) and then you have series that cap out at like tier 4 being called weak (because it was written by someone with tiersitis I guess). I think the calcs section does the job a lot better than this does.

 

[KLOL506]

And not everything gets calculated or even accepted to begin with since people don't have any clue how strong the verse is, making the process much more slower...

I'm pretty sure that's 100% against the rules. You have to have some sort of calculation or explanation blog for the feats at hand now.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

You want to list all of the Verse's calculations, even the ones that aren't used on the profiles? The calculations section will do a far more comprehensive job of that than the "Power of the Verse" section ever could.

You want to see how powerful individual characters are, as well as their powers, abilities, intelligence, etc? Then the profiles are the way to go for you.

It's really simple. That section is just redundant, and it doesn't help that 99.9% of the time it has zero effort put into it.

I'll give verse pages and the information about the powers won't be viewed on calculations or just a single profile page

One, two, three.. I don't think it's necessary to give anymore but you get what I mean, some of those information won't be on calculations or on a single profile page

 

[KingTempest]

I also like how nobody can agree on what counts as relatively strong or weak or whatever so you have series that cap out at tier 8 being called strong (because in real world terms, tier 8 is indeed very high) and then you have series that cap out at like tier 4 being called weak (because it was written by someone with tiersitis I guess). I think the calcs section does the job a lot better than this does.

Kimetsu no Yaiba

For detailed information about the series, see the Kimetsu no Yaiba Wiki. Kimetsu no Yaiba (鬼滅の刃 Kimetsu no Yaiba, lit. "Blade of Demon Destruction"), also known as Demon Slayer, is a manga written and illustrated by Koyoharu Gotōge and is published by Weekly Shonen Jump. The series started on...

vsbattles.fandom.com

In terms of speed, the verse's characters are pretty fast

Caps at MHS

In terms of Lifting Strength the verse is decent

Caps at Class 50

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Kimetsu no Yaiba

For detailed information about the series, see the Kimetsu no Yaiba Wiki. Kimetsu no Yaiba (鬼滅の刃 Kimetsu no Yaiba, lit. "Blade of Demon Destruction"), also known as Demon Slayer, is a manga written and illustrated by Koyoharu Gotōge and is published by Weekly Shonen Jump. The series started on...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Caps at MHS

Caps at Class 50

this stuff with subjective sentences isn't really informative and seem quite unnecessary tho

 

[DMUA]

One

Orochi possesses all the statistics listed, alongside the elemental manipulation, soul manipulation, and teleportation. I don't know why you picked this example.

two

That just treads into the grounds of the section itself being too long in the process of talking about statistics better explained on the characters themselves, but I guess this counts for what you're trying to say.

three

As mentioned before, calculations covers all the statistics, you can see it directly below this section without being bogged down by in universe terminology that directly contradicts the feats within (A grade 2 would die to a shotgun by statements, is 9-A by direct showings). Cursed Energy Manipulation linked soon after also explains a ton of the abilities there.

 

[Livinmeme]

I disagree, it is used as a way to express the relative powerlevel of the entire verse, and give a quick summary (usually the hax), the section being most of the time redudant is the fault of the editor, not...Well an inherent problem with "power of the verse".

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I do agree that "Powers of the Verse" is kinda redundant as it is, however, if I was to make it useful, I'd complete change it.

What would I change it to? Well, I think I'd use the entire section to list who people scale to, so that users can figure out scaling chains without having to use guess work or hunting through pages to find which character has the feat explanation.

I'd format it something like:

Character A (MHS+): Character B. Character C, Character D etc.
Character A (High 6-A): Character B, Character C,, Character D etc.

IMO this is a lot better.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Orochi possesses all the statistics listed, alongside the elemental manipulation, soul manipulation, and teleportation. I don't know why you picked this example.

The first verse I got . That page doesn't inform you about how the scaling works tho

As mentioned before, calculations covers all the statistics, you can see it directly below this section without being bogged down by in universe terminology that directly contradicts the feats within (A grade 2 would die to a shotgun by statements, is 9-A by direct showings).

They still give rough estimates and information you don't need to spend a long time looking for... And calculations aren't everything, one can accidentally fall and cause an earthquake that's 6-B yet exists statements that puts that character for higher... the verse page will be able to explain why characters scale higher than the calculations

 

[Propellus]

Meh, I've never really cared for this part as I don't really use it. The list of Calculations and Explanations parts should already give the viewer an idea of how strong a verse is anyway if that wasn't enough. So I don't mind this being nuked

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Every verse should ideally be able to get by with a "this is a very strong verse", with no further elaboration.
If we just copy and paste this to each of the verse pages, with no deviations, the problem should solve itself.

 

[Armorchompy]

Power of the verse be like: "This is a very weak verse, as most of the characters can only obliterate city blocks with their attacks, and the god tiers only barely surpass the power of the strongest nuclear armaments built by humanity. However, it has somewhat passable speed, as the mid tier characters are easily capable of surpassing the speed of light, and niche but useful hax, as everyone in the verse can passively make your intestines shoot out of your mouth by looking at you funny"

Yeah remove away

 

[Nierre]

Verse pages like Naruto and One Piece, have a "Notes" or "Scaling" section under their Calculations sections where they explicitly list out where characters scale to:

"City level+ characters such as [Character A] and [Character B] scale to 53.15 Megatons due to downscaling from [Character C]"

or

"The highest 6-C characters such as [Character A] and [Character B] are scaled 8x stronger than the higher 6-Cs (401.99 Gigatons)"

I think it'd could be good, especially for bigger verses that have alot of characters and/or calcs, to adopt something like this as to replace that section.

 

[Armorchompy]

I think having a scaling section is very good but that's not what the section is for currently

 

[Damage3245]

Since we have the Calculations section on Verse pages, I think it would be fine to remove the "Power of the Verse" section which seems obsolete.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Verse pages like Naruto and One Piece, have a "Notes" or "Scaling" section under their Calculations sections where they explicitly list out where characters scale to:

"City level+ characters such as [Character A] and [Character B] scale to 53.15 Megatons due to downscaling from [Character C]"

or

"The highest 6-C characters such as [Character A] and [Character B] are scaled 8x stronger than the higher 6-Cs (401.99 Gigatons)"

I think it'd could be good, especially for bigger verses that have alot of characters and/or calcs, to adopt something like this as to replace that section.

Here's the thing...

They don't ******* tell you which characters are XYZ scaling. In order to use one of those, it should be required to put the AP/dura scaling in the notes section on the profiles

And at that point why bother

 

[Stefano4444]

Yeah Power of the Verse seen kinda pointless and redundant since we already make sections of everything else between Calculations, Scaling/Multipliers, Cosmology and Power System/Physiology.

 

[Reiner04]

Yeah that's better but shouldn't this be staff thread?

 

[Damage3245]

Good point. I'll move this to be a staff thread.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Can I participate because I’m just saying we could use this on FC/OC wiki frfr

 

[SeijiSetto]

i think it's a valid removal
no need for subjectivity on what's considered strong and the calculations section as well as putting exact values on profiles using the notes section covers things

 

[CurrySenpai]

Alongside the section being largely redundant I feel, I'd also like to say that it can just be incredibly incorrect and subjective. By nature of being a battleboarding forum there's no objective way to gauge a verses strength and I've seen some pages go "They're pretty strong with Relativistic speeds, as well as City Level attack potency!" (lacks any sort of hax thus making them lose many matches) and sometimes it's the inverse with strong hax but weak physicals.

Also, most matches on the wiki are speed equalized anyway, so while yeah you can try to say that a verse is strong in its own number tier and whatnot, if we were really to be objective then no verse would be "strong" besides like Tier 4 to 0. and smurfs

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Don't really care much, it's mainly used for brief description while other verses go into a bit more detail. However, given we started adding explanation/cosmology pages, and the existence the calculation section would give you a general idea of feats but an issue is that calculations stop at 3-A, calculations do not take into account verses that run Tier 2 characters and above, but usually those verses have Cosmology blogs. For example, the W.I.T.C.H. verse has only two calcs on the Calculations section, that in know way is enough to understand how powerful the verse in description wise. However, the explanation section has a blog that contains all the information regarding the tier 2 ratings. For another verse I work on, I added a scaling section which explains what feat the characters are scaling to for easy understanding.

Plus as mentioned in the OP, reading the profiles gives you this information (if their not garbage in that regard). Overall, I think if it stays, we should remove all that "this verse is strong because" or "this verse is not to powerful but", because any verse can be considered "powerful" or "weak" compared to another. I'd suggest just "The verse contains characters who can [insert various feats here], talk about skil and abilities and so on not every feat is calculated so going over additional stuff isn't an issue, and before anyone says "just get the feat calculated and just add it to the calc section", y'all know damn well how that process be going so don't. However if we remove it, a lot of verses need to shape up (even some of mine) in terms of providing better descriptions on the calc or potential scaling/explanation pages and what not.

So I'm fine with it's removal, just need to make sure the verse pages provide enough detail on other sections because we all know how some people barely deep dive in our profiles.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I have mixed thoughts but will go over some ideas. While I do agree that it's redundant with just looking up the many linked pages, redundancy in itself isn't harmful and it could potentially save people the trouble of looking up a whole bunch of profiles. Our calculations page also often points out where various scaling chains starts. Though it's worth noting that calculations doesn't cover High 3-A and above same with Infinite speed/Lifting strength and above. Though, most verses that have those often have a "Verse explanation blog" that could make up for that.

And yeah, calling verses "Weak, Very Powerful, or somewhere in between" are always controversial. A verse being called weak just because common foot soldiers are Tier 8, which is still crazy for human soldier standards and Tier 6 god tiers. Likewise, being called, "A very powerful verse" due to the existence of a Tier 4 weapon. That's another thing, some verses are too focused on just the very strongest character/weapon when describing weak or powerful. Some verses have uber strong god tiers when everyone and everything else is normal level. Other verses also may peak at tier 8, but the catch is basically everyone is that strong, even a bunch of random civilians. So at minimum, being called "Weak or Powerful or anywhere in between" I agree should be removed as opposed to listing tiers, speed ratings, list of notable hax abilities, ect. But calculations already cover tiers and other stats. And High 3-A and above if any + walls of haxes can also be covered in a "Explanations" section or an Explanation blog post.

So I suppose neutral but leaning towards agreeing with the removal.