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No, he is unquantificable superior to every system road on jojo. meaning also range mesurament (that exist on jojo, it's actually very important)
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About GER's range
- Thread starter Zencha9
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Lets just say it's unquantifiable superiority because You will never reach the truth (jokes xd)
But yeah it's true tho
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Can we not use me as a scapegoat.
I'm just calling a spade a spade, it's blatantly shown in manga that Diavolo is transferred to different locations and even different times confirming that whatever is happening, it sure as hell isn't the same place locale he once was.
Other media goes further and clarifies that the reason for the drastic discrepancy in times, days, locations and more within each death, is due to the fact he was being sent to a alternate world and or worlds. Which merely just tells us what was happening in the manga rather the actively changing anything much and coincides with what we see.
It's quite straightforward all things considered.
The options would be saying the death loop is a continuous temporal shifting ad infinitum as Diavolo is explicitly transported to different times and even days within continuous succession+teleportation or that Diavolo gets sent to alternate dimensions, and given the latter is what other media runs with and has less issues lorewise as the former, which, fyi, is the alternative if we say otherwise, that isn't up for debate, I'm more inclined to go with that one if only because anyone official material that gets their hands on GER goes with that as well.
And in that case, well is the alternate dimensions universe sized? Well yeah, I'd say so based on the established conventions.
I'm just calling a spade a spade, it's blatantly shown in manga that Diavolo is transferred to different locations and even different times confirming that whatever is happening, it sure as hell isn't the same place locale he once was.
Other media goes further and clarifies that the reason for the drastic discrepancy in times, days, locations and more within each death, is due to the fact he was being sent to a alternate world and or worlds. Which merely just tells us what was happening in the manga rather the actively changing anything much and coincides with what we see.
It's quite straightforward all things considered.
The options would be saying the death loop is a continuous temporal shifting ad infinitum as Diavolo is explicitly transported to different times and even days within continuous succession+teleportation or that Diavolo gets sent to alternate dimensions, and given the latter is what other media runs with and has less issues lorewise as the former, which, fyi, is the alternative if we say otherwise, that isn't up for debate, I'm more inclined to go with that one if only because anyone official material that gets their hands on GER goes with that as well.
And in that case, well is the alternate dimensions universe sized? Well yeah, I'd say so based on the established conventions.
We're outright told he can't even be measured using the same scale due his superiority. The parameters are explicitly told to us, speed, power, range, potential, permeance, precision, with power being explicitly stated to exceed all existing stands as a given example. Though obviously I'd like to rely on the actual feat he has and not scaling in this instance.
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And just to actually give an idea of how absolutely ****** the differences between the deaths are.
Album.
Death 1. Killed by GER (Or defeated, and the next part is the first death, either way).
Death 2. Killed by thug in the same place and time as Gio on April 6th, in the tibe river, around 6am.
Death 3. Completely different location; morgue. Time is 11am (11:20 in the anime),already dead 40-50h though but the the day is the 25th of an unknown month (Part 5 ends on April 6th and Diavolo was killed on April 6th at around 6am initially).
Death 4. Completely different location: city. Time is the dead of night as opposed to the 6 or 11 in the morning now.
Cuts back to Gio, only a minute or two has actually passed if even, not all these impossible time jumps as Diavolo is going through which includes even jumps between weeks at minimum.
Cuts back to Diavolo
Death 5. Completely different location; what seems to be the countryside. Time is now middle of the day, not night which has last seen death was in.
It's made perfectly clear, that Diavolo is no longer in the same time as Gio, nor the same location. So unless we're about to say GER's death loop can send people through time (which wouldn't quite make sense but eh), the alternative is just to go with how other media treats this aspect, and that's alternate worlds.
Album.
Death 1. Killed by GER (Or defeated, and the next part is the first death, either way).
Death 2. Killed by thug in the same place and time as Gio on April 6th, in the tibe river, around 6am.
Death 3. Completely different location; morgue. Time is 11am (11:20 in the anime),already dead 40-50h though but the the day is the 25th of an unknown month (Part 5 ends on April 6th and Diavolo was killed on April 6th at around 6am initially).
Death 4. Completely different location: city. Time is the dead of night as opposed to the 6 or 11 in the morning now.
Cuts back to Gio, only a minute or two has actually passed if even, not all these impossible time jumps as Diavolo is going through which includes even jumps between weeks at minimum.
Cuts back to Diavolo
Death 5. Completely different location; what seems to be the countryside. Time is now middle of the day, not night which has last seen death was in.
It's made perfectly clear, that Diavolo is no longer in the same time as Gio, nor the same location. So unless we're about to say GER's death loop can send people through time (which wouldn't quite make sense but eh), the alternative is just to go with how other media treats this aspect, and that's alternate worlds.
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Except GER was made unquanitifiable to be superior to quanitifiable Stands. MIH and Notorious B.I.G. may have infinity in their speed, but other parameters were still quanitifiable.
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Do you have the exact quote? Because being +1 stronger than them is also superior to them. I'm much safer with Unknown.
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We do treat it as +1 as a minimum to be safe though? Hell we dont even do that, we just treat it as equal to the highest thing to be safe, not above, just equal.
Though I'm not quite so sure what MIH or BIG have to do with this thread, there range isnt helpful here, supports nothing, and BIG's range is explicitly defined to mean a certain thing.
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Oh I'm just saying that GER's stats can't be measured while BIG and MIH stats except for speed are.
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is impossible to compare with the existing Stand and measuring rod, null stats help with it because highest value is infinite
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Wh-
The scan just says that the ability of Requiem doesn't compare to Gold Experience, not the entirety of all Stands. The statement even denotes "Stand" as in singular. It was saying that GER is way more powerful than GE.
The scan just says that the ability of Requiem doesn't compare to Gold Experience, not the entirety of all Stands. The statement even denotes "Stand" as in singular. It was saying that GER is way more powerful than GE.
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it's stands* to be exactly, because GE dosen't exist anymore for what we know, stands and their mesuring rod.
literally how you came to stand and assumed it's GE it's kinda funny.
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Did you miss the part where the reason why it has None in every stat is because it's outright impossible to compare its abilities with that of existing Stands? It's not even singular, Japanese isn't exactly a straightforward language. It's context based.
And even if it was singular, it changes absolutely nothing, why's that? Because if it was possible to compare it still use the measuring rods, it would, which it can't, because none of them fit it, because it's impossible to use them to quantify its abilities in any category.
And it sure as **** ain't like Stands don't get new stats upon evolving given every single Stand that has ever done that got it, whether that be BTD, Echoes Act 1, 2 , 3, Chariot Requiem, Whitesnake, C-Moon, Made in Heaven, Heavy Weather, Star Platinum: The World, Tusk Act 1, 2, 3, 4, etc all got new stats, and they all used the same scale, because even though in some cases they're hilariously superior, to the point it's not even funny (see Act 4), they can still be quantified using the scaling system.
Point is, Requiem's abilities simply can't be measured using the Stand stat system, it's impossible, it explicitly says that. And goes on record one page over even pointing out how his attack power exceeds all existing stands in general (so yeah, he's not just superior to GE in stats, he's outright pointed out to exceed every Stand in attack, to give you an example of just how encompassing his superiority is), confirming that yeah, GER is hot shit.
And even if it was singular, it changes absolutely nothing, why's that? Because if it was possible to compare it still use the measuring rods, it would, which it can't, because none of them fit it, because it's impossible to use them to quantify its abilities in any category.
And it sure as **** ain't like Stands don't get new stats upon evolving given every single Stand that has ever done that got it, whether that be BTD, Echoes Act 1, 2 , 3, Chariot Requiem, Whitesnake, C-Moon, Made in Heaven, Heavy Weather, Star Platinum: The World, Tusk Act 1, 2, 3, 4, etc all got new stats, and they all used the same scale, because even though in some cases they're hilariously superior, to the point it's not even funny (see Act 4), they can still be quantified using the scaling system.
Point is, Requiem's abilities simply can't be measured using the Stand stat system, it's impossible, it explicitly says that. And goes on record one page over even pointing out how his attack power exceeds all existing stands in general (so yeah, he's not just superior to GE in stats, he's outright pointed out to exceed every Stand in attack, to give you an example of just how encompassing his superiority is), confirming that yeah, GER is hot shit.
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Because it's not an outlier. There ain't anti-feats against GER.
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Or it says what it says and it's taken at face value because there's no reason to assume otherwise and it even goes on record to clarify one such example of his superiority over all existing Stands on the same page as that by outright saying his attack power is beyond that of every other Stand in existence.
Is it hyperbole? Well it can't be, it outright gives an example, and it's consistent with the fact the ****** dismantles King Crimson casually, one of the strongest Stands in the verse and the stats aren't exactly known for hyperbole, hell sometimes it gives extremely precise or oddly specific values like 3m for C-Moon.
GER > other Stands. If that Stand has a stat, and it can somehow be measured using the system in any way, shape or form, GER is that > in some manner, as that statistic could be measured and his can not. And to this day it's still routinely called the ultimate Stand and or Stand ability, it's not a one time thing.
Stretching it would be assuming it applies to every single conceivable notion and capacity of all Stands but no, just the things that have and were measured using the system, obviously we're not gonna go "D4C has Multiversal+ range on his ability, so GER should too", because that ability hasnt been quantified using any system, only D4C's manifestation range has, which gave it a C and and is just 10m fyi.
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Indeed, it's context based (well in most instances anyway). But contextually, it says that the abilities of GER simply can't be measured using the Stand system (as in, it's impossible), so it honestly doesn't matter if it's plural or singular, it means the same thing in the end. His capabilities > the system.
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Oh, I'm not very familiar with JoJo's raws. is "スタンドと間じ物差し" what they call the Stand system?
I could confirm if you, like, posted another scan that namedropped it in that sorta way (on its own "stand gap ruler" feels like it could go either way imo).
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What am I supposed to see in that link? It was already posted above and was the one I was already discussing.
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That stand system is called "スタンドパラメータ", the actual rankings though that make up the system? Whatever that is yeah (ignoring specifications of the stats in particular like "Destructive Power" or "Speed").
The rankings themselves though like A, B, C, (to give a basic example) being referred to as measuring rods (scale?) checks out.
Though, I should stress this as it may not be clear, that statement is explicitly talking about and or clarifying his Stats. A good chunk of the Stands in the guide have a clarification or specification for why a stat is the way it is or something about the stat, well, right next to the stats. An example. With the rest of the page outside the box to discuss things like, its abilities or things it has done.
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Well, I was called here, so:
GER's Return to Zero and Death Loop are basically 2 different powers, one if defensive, the other is offensive. RtZ is at very least Universal+ in range due of it nulling Diavolo's Time Erasure. However, GER needs to attack the opponent itself to send it to the Death Loop, which Giorno himself said that whoever is send there isn't part of the reality anymore, hinting on them being BFR'd to another realm where they die infinitely, and thus Low Multiversal range. They work differently and mixing them doesn't make any sense.
GER's Return to Zero and Death Loop are basically 2 different powers, one if defensive, the other is offensive. RtZ is at very least Universal+ in range due of it nulling Diavolo's Time Erasure. However, GER needs to attack the opponent itself to send it to the Death Loop, which Giorno himself said that whoever is send there isn't part of the reality anymore, hinting on them being BFR'd to another realm where they die infinitely, and thus Low Multiversal range. They work differently and mixing them doesn't make any sense.
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Actually, looking at it again, the translation is something like "Because it was selected by the arrow and made into requiem, its ability is impossible to compare to [other stands that exist]/[the existing stand] and rulers for measuring the gaps {between them}." (I inferred that last part based on context, but I think that's a good assumption, and is needed for it to make sense in English)
Your earlier statement of But contextually, it says that the abilities of GER simply can't be measured using the Stand system (as in, it's impossible), so it honestly doesn't matter if it's plural or singular, it means the same thing in the end. His capabilities > the system. confused me a bit, but since it says that comparison to stand/stands and to the measuring system is impossible, it doesn't matter whether it's singular or plural, since it separately mentions the system (even if it doesn't name drop it).
Your earlier statement of But contextually, it says that the abilities of GER simply can't be measured using the Stand system (as in, it's impossible), so it honestly doesn't matter if it's plural or singular, it means the same thing in the end. His capabilities > the system. confused me a bit, but since it says that comparison to stand/stands and to the measuring system is impossible, it doesn't matter whether it's singular or plural, since it separately mentions the system (even if it doesn't name drop it).
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Thank you for clarifying, that's quite helpful.
But indeed, the quote in context is explicitly talking about why his Stats are all "None". It's not because he's weak, far from it, it's because he's to good. (Hell other half of the page outright says because his attack power exceeds existing Stand(s), he can be called the perfect/ultimate Stand).
The None's are there because GER is meant to be some God Tier of the verse using some deus ex machina item and hot shit so the author just went lol "he's beyond this whole system thing I created at the start of this part and retroactively applied to every other part". To this day he's even called the Ultimate Stand/Ability in more recent guides. (Think I even posted it before, if not I could post it again, I have some scans saved from recently).
But indeed, the quote in context is explicitly talking about why his Stats are all "None". It's not because he's weak, far from it, it's because he's to good. (Hell other half of the page outright says because his attack power exceeds existing Stand(s), he can be called the perfect/ultimate Stand).
The None's are there because GER is meant to be some God Tier of the verse using some deus ex machina item and hot shit so the author just went lol "he's beyond this whole system thing I created at the start of this part and retroactively applied to every other part". To this day he's even called the Ultimate Stand/Ability in more recent guides. (Think I even posted it before, if not I could post it again, I have some scans saved from recently).
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RtZ having Universal+ range is also because of it being called the ultimate ability, and thus being >>> MiH Time Acceleration, which is blatantly Universal+
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Except they're not. The Death Loop is just an effect of RTZ and GER doesn't have another ability aside from its life-giving power.
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King Crimson's time erase is Universal, so we don't even need to discuss the stats and the cross scaling, GER literally has a Uni feat on screen so that's the absolute minimum no matter what. It's above that where there seems to be an issue.
He meant fundamentally different.
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Just got confused, sorry ig.
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I invite you to check this blog, that is currently accepted
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Some parts are outdated, I might create a new one
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pretty much, we should wait for acausality negation to be accepter or not tho, because we shouldn't do another blog again
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Now if we're done arguing over linguistics, which ultimately wouldn't effect the fact it's simply explaining why it has "None" in every stat.
Can we focus on the actual topic? This whole thing isn't even relevant to the discussion, there isn't any stand with a ranked ability that exceeds universal+ (while Stands with higher range do exist, those abilities with such range weren't quantified in the system at all, it decided to quantify manifestation sadly, which was probably more important to quantify for a narrative purpose given D4C's multi hop doesn't even need explaining, it has a whole chunk of a part dedicated to it), and GER has a Universal range feat on panel with King Crimson so scaling isn't even required for that tier, the issue is low multi or above, which leads into "well is Diavolo being sent to an alternate world or not?".
And to that I say, well he sure as **** ain't in the place he was before, or time for that matter. And every time where this comes up in in other media, it does go with "alternate world/worlds" so, well in lack of better options and the fact we know he's gone and hopping through different times (As it explicitly outlines certain times even in the manga for different deaths for Diavolo), it's best to go with the option that coincides with canon and not just assume things like temporal shifting (which is the only other alternative given the temporal aspect, and opens up a whole bunch of other questions).
Well, I got work in a few hours, I gotta go soon, I'll obviously come back on break and when I go home, taking a nap till then. I'd hopefully think things don't get to off topic or derailed till I'm back. Though of course, if there's any specific questions, I'll answer them to the best of my ability when I see them.
Can we focus on the actual topic? This whole thing isn't even relevant to the discussion, there isn't any stand with a ranked ability that exceeds universal+ (while Stands with higher range do exist, those abilities with such range weren't quantified in the system at all, it decided to quantify manifestation sadly, which was probably more important to quantify for a narrative purpose given D4C's multi hop doesn't even need explaining, it has a whole chunk of a part dedicated to it), and GER has a Universal range feat on panel with King Crimson so scaling isn't even required for that tier, the issue is low multi or above, which leads into "well is Diavolo being sent to an alternate world or not?".
And to that I say, well he sure as **** ain't in the place he was before, or time for that matter. And every time where this comes up in in other media, it does go with "alternate world/worlds" so, well in lack of better options and the fact we know he's gone and hopping through different times (As it explicitly outlines certain times even in the manga for different deaths for Diavolo), it's best to go with the option that coincides with canon and not just assume things like temporal shifting (which is the only other alternative given the temporal aspect, and opens up a whole bunch of other questions).
Well, I got work in a few hours, I gotta go soon, I'll obviously come back on break and when I go home, taking a nap till then. I'd hopefully think things don't get to off topic or derailed till I'm back. Though of course, if there's any specific questions, I'll answer them to the best of my ability when I see them.
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And every time where this comes up in in other media, it does go with "alternate world/worlds" so
Two things with this: Firstly, another fairly common explanation is a pocket reality. Secondly, Low Multiversal or above requires being able to affect anywhere in other timelines. If it can't access other points in time, or if it can't affect something on the other side of the universe, it's only Interdimensional. Even if it is a parallel world, it has to be able to shoot someone across the universe, rather than just placing someone at a unique place on Earth in another timeline.
Two things with this: Firstly, another fairly common explanation is a pocket reality. Secondly, Low Multiversal or above requires being able to affect anywhere in other timelines. If it can't access other points in time, or if it can't affect something on the other side of the universe, it's only Interdimensional. Even if it is a parallel world, it has to be able to shoot someone across the universe, rather than just placing someone at a unique place on Earth in another timeline.
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He was definitely sent to another universe, it's the only logical deduction from Giorno's words in the last scan.
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Interdimensional: Attacks and abilities that can reach beyond the conventional space-time of a single universe, such as into external pocket realities or parts of other universes, but that may not necessarily travel a universal distance.
I don't really see it..
if rtz is working, it's working on both main and other universe
I don't really see it..
if rtz is working, it's working on both main and other universe
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That could be the other explanation, but that isn't what they go with.
When I said other media I meant other JoJo media, in regards to this ability.
As in, whenever this ability shows up in other JoJo media, not media in general, it specifies alternate world/worlds is what those effected by this ability are dropped into.
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That's understandable, I forgot to clarify, I just assumed people would know what I was talking about given past pretense. My bad.
