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About GER's range

Chariot190 said:
Guide says "those defeated by GER will have even their death set to 0". (One may even say "kill" so there you go).
The BFR aspect though, **** if I know, it's vague as shit as to when he can do it, just that he can (BFR and death aren't exactly connected so who knows, honestly just take things at face value) but as for the actual death aspect of it, it seems to need something like a death or at least a near death state to initiate according to guides.
Click to expand...
Death Manipulation fits that part actually.
 
If the range has been accepted then it'll be something like:
At least Two meters with Gold Experience Requiem, Tens of meters via Life Sensing, likely higher (Stated in the JOJO-A-GO!GO! guidebook that the abilities of Gold Experience have evolved), Low Multiversal for its Return to Zero (Could capture Diavolo in a cycle of infinite deaths across what seem to be parallel worlds), possibly Multiversal
 
SSJRyu1 said:
OK, thanks for clarifying. Perhaps we should add those scans and explanation as to why he needs to actually kill them in order to initiate the death loop as a brief note if it's not already on the profile somewhere. It is a pretty common question, and I doubt anybody would be opposed to adding it.

Oh, btw after looking at the thread I would recommend RTZ get Low Multiversal, possibly Multiversal in range.
Click to expand...
Probably. Though the profile actually does specify that already, just doesn't have scans.

Also as for the pebble, the specifics don't matter. Base GE cant do that. He explicitly needs direct contact with whatever he's turning into a organism, even if GER imbued a object with life manip, and then flicked it and had that energy transfer over to the broken pillar, or if he didnt, that's still beyond what base GE could do, who needed physical contact with his hands. So abilities to a greater extent still works.
 
Do we even know the context of what GER does when he returns his target's death to zero?

I always thought it was universal range at max since it doesn't really take you into any other universe. It's causality manip, whenever Diavolo dies, his death is reset and a new possibility of him dying is opened up. Infinite possibilities, hence, infinite deaths.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
I always thought it was universal range at max since it doesn't really take you into any other universe. It's causality manip, whenever Diavolo dies, his death is reset and a new possibility of him dying is opened up. Infinite possibilities, hence, infinite deaths.
Click to expand...
So what is your side about this?
 
My side is based on what you can present to me.

So far I have not seen any evidence of RtZ being greater than universal myself in the manga. If anyone has any real evidence to show that it has anything more than universal range, I'll take a look at it and decide.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
So far I have not seen any evidence of RtZ being greater than universal myself in the manga. If anyone has any real evidence to show that it has anything more than universal range, I'll take a look at it and decide.
Click to expand...
The Death Loop isn't a separate ability to RtZ. And GER sends them to certain worlds, "worlds" in the context of JoJo being universes themselves as seen with D4C, which ability proves this even if it's another universe.
 
Yeah I need evidence, my guy. Telling me this won't convince me that the whole "sending to worlds" bit is literal or true.
 
Chariot190 said:
The world inside the mirror is literally universe sized tho so bad example.
And I have no proof? Its on you to prove the negative Efi, even though there's beyond enough proof, you just happen to act like it doesn't exist. And no, that's quite literally what you're ******* saying, if the cosmology is the same, guess what? Those infinite universes co-exist simultaneously with both the original parts, and Part 7-8, there is no-inbetween. If Part 1-6 and 7-8 exist in the same cosmology, they also exist simultaneously with all those universes. Stop using actual false equivalences like Cream, it's astoundingly bad of an example.
And that's without getting into the fact that as a mere concept, parallel worlds in JoJo, no questions asked, are heavily established, like holy **** Efi, but yes let's assume arbitrary made up shit instead of the established norm because you it shows us instead of writing a whole part based around it.




Except it isn't, you can keep saying it is, but it won't magically become true the more you say it. Just because you call something a gimmick and then decide it's limited to just Part 7 because "oh those universes are arent that different that MUST mean those universes are only exclusive to Part 7" is put simply, completely bullshit. The og timeline is only a different thing from Part 7, in that it's, a parallel world, in which there's an infinite amount of them. Why, is it because Part 7 is technically the original universe that makes you say this? Well tough luck on that front, that's just how it is, Part 7 is the original and Part 1-6 is retroactively a derivative (Assuming you believe Diego's theory or take that one bit at direct facevalue, though all we can say is that the corpse itself is a singularity truly). Doesn't change the fact they're explicitly apart of the same multiverse, simply parallel worlds, much like the infinite Funny establishes to exist.



Oh, you're unironically trying to say JoJo has two multiverses and the heavily established multiverse that Part 7 sets up is only connected to Part 7's world, even though it's made explicitly clear that all those parallel worlds exist simultaneously, side by side, in an infinite amount. Co-existing in a multiverse, and Part 1-6 is just one of those parallel worlds. It's very simple to see a gimmick? I mean, you're seeing a gimmick where there is none, because the original universe and Part 7-8 are quite ******* literally just parallel worlds, out of infinite, that co-exist simultaneously. You're ******* unironically saying that the infinite universes that exist and co-exist side by side don't actually exist simultaneously side by side, but are actually only connected to Part 7's world and no other dimension in the entire cosmology, even if said dimension just so happens to be explicitly a parallel world much like those very same infinite set of worlds, while also saying they can't co-exist side by side, because if they ******* did, that would also mean they exist side by side with the main because they are quite literally the SAME thing.

Actually, its you who wants to prove that Part 1-6 and 7-8 aren't actually parallel worlds as how the verse establishes them to be and apparently trying to say JoJo has to sets of multiverses now, but one is just some arbitrary size you made up and one is infinite, but they're actually not the same because you said so based on a "gimmick" you think exists because parallel worlds happen to have similarities and are based on Part 7's world (even though that's actually just a hypothesis in context, and doesn't even change anything because, yeah, it's true, but that also applies to the og timeline as well).



"Seem to be the very same" "except size because I said so". Again, established concept. If they seem to be the same, chances are, it's the same.



The **** do you mean weird fanfic rules? It's unironically canon. It's been established, full force, what a parallel world in JoJo is, what it entails, what they look, that parallel worlds exist ad infinitum side by side, that parallel worlds are just alternate worlds much like others, and that these dimensions are, as one would have assumed, are just simply alternate universes. And here we are given alternate worlds, that existed prior to GER, and are blatantly shown to be, for all intents and purposes identical to the main world, and fits in with the established conventions of what a parallel world in JoJo is, then why the **** are we going to say they aren't simply just an alternate dimension, ie, a parallel world, over your completely arbitrary and ridiculous inability to call a spade a spade for some reason. If not universes what are they are? Don't answer that, that was rhetorical. Also stop saying it's a gimmick, if it was a gimmick, it wouldn't have gone on record saying that "yeah all these dimensions actually co-exist side by side as parallel worlds in a infinite multiverse, neighboring each other, and that's simply how the cosmology works now lol".


Well my bad then but that's what I'm getting from this.

Yes. That's what I'm saying. If we're shown pre-existing parallel worlds that for all intents and purposes are just, well, alternate variations of the main universe. And the verse establishes that parallel worlds exist infinitely simultaneously, side by side, and the worlds we're given adhere to everything we know an alternate dimension to be in JoJo, and we know alternate dimensions in verse are actually universes. Why in the **** would these death loop worlds not be parallel worlds as they're established? Occam's razer Efi. If we know what a parallel world in JoJo is, and these adhere to what we know about them while also being an alternate world in and of itself, the logical conclusion is call it what it is, not treat it like something it's not.


Ok then the infinite dimensions in Part 7 also co-exist side by side with Part 1-6 if they're the same multiverse? Like, that's what I'm saying here, and if you agree they exist in the same multiverse????

And at this point, I have no idea what you're arguing besides treating an alternate dimension that adheres to what we know to be a parallel world, in a verse with an infinite amount of them, to not be a parallel world.

Given I was under the impression of you trying to argue they don't exist in the same multiverse, I clearly don't know what you're going for and given you on record in this post said that the infinite multiverse is actually just Part 7 verse exclusive, which is an impossible contradiction, as if the part 7 infinite multiverse is exclusive to Part 7 and not connected to Part 1-6, then that means Part 1-6 and 7 arent in the same multiverse, otherwise they would, by virtue of being the same multiverse. It's one or the other Efi. And saying lol gimmick and treating the infinite multiverse to by some hyper exclusivity thing that exists in a bigger multiverse is complete conjecture you made up, as that's the only way Part 1-6 could be in the same multiverse but simultaneously not be apart of the infinite multiverse of Part 7.


That kinda makes things even worse Efi, you're now actually making up shit to say Part 7's worlds =/= Part 1=6 but Part 1=6 exist in the same multiverse but arent connected to the multiverse established in Part 7. Actually baffling.


Do I need to write a list every time a established alternate universe sized world in JoJo is simply called "a world"? **** dude I guess Part 7-8 arent actually alternate universes because they're called "worlds" a lot.
The worlds GER sends a target into is, for all intents and purposes, an alternate world, to the main one. And guess what that entails? You guessed it, actually being an alternate world. Also I don't know why you keep using the mirror world as an example, the mirror world is literally a mirror world, it's identical to the main world, just without life. Unless you're about to say a world that's a complete mirror to the main world and is identical except that life doesnt exist in it is actually not that and is some arbitrary size you made up.
Again, I'm calling a spade a spade, if a alternate world in JoJo is shown, and it's filled with people, life, day, nght, etc, there's literally no reason to assume it's anything but a parallel world in a verse that fully established that those exist in infinity.
Hell I'd even go as far to say that should be the default assumption in general for verses, I'm not about to say the something like the mirror world in Pokemon from Gen 6 or some of the ultra spaces arent universes because it's common sense.



No, it's actually straightforward, you're just setting an arbitrary limitation on something because, well I actually don't know why, this is baffling all things considered. There's a pretty big ******* difference between a Dark space that exists nowhere where nothing exists within it, everything that enters gets annihilated and is a completely unique phenomena within the context of the verse at large. Compared to "alternate world that looks exactly like the main one with people, history, space, time, day, night, etc and behaves exactly as one would expect lol". Like actually be realistic here Efi, do you not see the difference between the two? Also man in the mirror is still a bad example. And no, not as far as we know, as far as we know, they're parallel worlds, **** you make it sound like these worlds are brought into being by GER, no, these worlds blatantly existed prior, they didn't pop into existence when GER did his thing, they had their own history and timeflow, we see that blatantly. So if we're shown a world, that has a timeline, people, etc, yeah, spade a spade, not a lol arbitrary made up dimension. Hell the fact it has people and a history should be sufficient enough as the only worlds in JoJo to have those are established since to be parallel worlds.



False equivalence. The mirror world (despite being a ******* universe in and of itself) has those because changes in the real world are instantly reflected continuously at all times in the mirror world, you drop a pebble in real world? A pebble magically gets lifted up and drops 1:1 while you do it in the real world. A city will appear in the mirror world because it will be created 1:1 100% identical simultaneously in parallel to the real world.
That's not the same as an alternate reality having people, civilization, time, history, space, day, night, etc through no outside force besides the fact it's an alternate world, and when we know parallel worlds exist ad infinitum, and this is literally just that, spade a spade. Also how in the **** is having civilization, history and an entire humanity a "tiny factor", ******* NOTHING in JoJo BESIDES parallel worlds has those.



But apparently it's a fake parallel world.



"Alternate dimension/world". Ah yes, so Cream and the mirror world are good to go then? Efi, you do know common sense and context clues exist. Like ****, I'd maybe, maybe, agree with you it we weren't talking about a verse that establishes this shit in full force.



I honestly don't know what you're doing, I'd say it's you being overly strict, but I don't even think that's what's happening, its ******* baffling to me where even having a argument over what should be obvious as ****.
Also your mirror world example is probably the worst one you could have used, also a false equivalence as outlined above, also missing the whole "entire civilizations" part. Or the fact we know what differentiates that realm.
Here it's literally just a pre-existing alternate world that RTZ dropped Diavolo's ass in. That's literally it, there's nothing special about it, it's just an alternate world. And in the verse where we know exactly what a parallel world is, why in the hell are we even arguing this.
Click to expand...
Sir_Ovens said:
Yeah I need evidence, my guy. Telling me this won't convince me that the whole "sending to worlds" bit is literal or true.
Click to expand...
Read the post posted by chariot
 
You see, D4C actually shows and explains the mechanics of travelling to other universes and has tons of feats to back it up including AU Diego.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
Wh-

Absolutely none of that is a scan backing up your stance.


Again, where's the contextual evidence?
Click to expand...
I'm not doing an appeal to authority thing, but I asked Chariot to reply. He'll be the one answer for you, I'm not really good with multiverses.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
Wh-

Absolutely none of that is a scan backing up your stance.


Again, where's the contextual evidence?
Click to expand...
Did you.... Even read the thread? The death loop thing is a part of RTZ, if GER can revert someone's death back to zero infinte amount of time across and ad infinitum of universes then there is no wonder that reverting actions back to zero should also scales to it
 
manu_zarri said:
that's the best i could find
Click to expand...
Yeah ok, cool. But absolutely none of that tells me that Diavolo is getting sent to alternate universes. His death is being returned to the point where he isn't dead and sent to another possible continuity in the timeline where he dies in a different way.

To my understanding, that's just causality manip. GER isn't "reaching" into infinite worlds, he's rewinding Diavolo back to that point where he activated RTZ and sending him into another possible way to die infinite times. Think of it this way, GER was made to hard counter Diavolo's ability to avoid any future where he does not come out victorious. Any future where Diavolo would have died is still a possibility, just one that never happened. GER takes that possibility and every other infinite possibility and makes it a reality for Diavolo.

This is why we see Diavolo die in ways and places unrelated to Italy. Those were deaths that could have happened to him, had he made different decisions in the past, or have been born in a different country, or any of the infinite ways he could have come into existence and died.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
Yeah ok, cool. But absolutely none of that tells me that Diavolo is getting sent to alternate universes. His death is being returned to the point where he isn't dead and sent to another possible continuity in the timeline where he dies in a different way.

To my understanding, that's just causality manip. GER isn't "reaching" into infinite worlds, he's rewinding Diavolo back to that point where he activated RTZ and sending him into another possible way to die infinite times. Think of it this way, GER was made to hard counter Diavolo's ability to avoid any future where he does not come out victorious. Any future where Diavolo would have died is still a possibility, just one that never happened. GER takes that possibility and every other infinite possibility and makes it a reality for Diavolo.

This is why we see Diavolo die in ways and places unrelated to Italy. Those were deaths that could have happened to him, had he made different decisions in the past, or have been born in a different country, or any of the infinite ways he could have come into existence and died.
Click to expand...
that's an assumption tho
 
Sir_Ovens said:
To my understanding, that's just causality manip. GER isn't "reaching" into infinite worlds, he's rewinding Diavolo back to that point where he activated RTZ and sending him into another possible way to die infinite times. Think of it this way, GER was made to hard counter Diavolo's ability to avoid any future where he does not come out victorious. Any future where Diavolo would have died is still a possibility, just one that never happened. GER takes that possibility and every other infinite possibility and makes it a reality for Diavolo.

This is why we see Diavolo die in ways and places unrelated to Italy. Those were deaths that could have happened to him, had he made different decisions in the past, or have been born in a different country, or any of the infinite ways he could have come into existence and died.
Click to expand...
Except said Causality Manip makes so that every single place in each death is different from each other. The manga proves that said possible deaths are in different worlds.

Also like @SSJRyu1 said, didn't you read like each comment Chariot and Efi made?
 
I've read the arguments and I absolutely do not believe GER's abilities extend beyond the main universe. Showing me deaths where Diavolo dies in different places that are not Italy does not immediately mean alternate universes. It could be different places and times within the prime universe. There's just not enough information to assume that GER has a range greater than Universal.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
I've read the arguments and I absolutely do not believe GER's abilities extend beyond the main universe. Showing me deaths where Diavolo dies in different places that are not Italy does not immediately mean alternate universes. It could be different places and times within the prime universe. There's just not enough information to assume that GER has a range greater than Universal.
Click to expand...
You don't have them too...
 
Yes but my argument takes less mental backflips to arrive to than "GER has multiversal range because he can send his opponents to other realities"

My argument uses abilities we established that GER already has and fits within the themes of his abilities.

If you want to disregard my argument that's fine too. But in no way are Efi or Chariot's reasons any more valid than mine.

I'd settle for Unknown at worst, Universal at best.
 
Literally just woke up, would the death loop explicitly sending Diavolo into a different world in every other media GER is featured in where this ability is used be sufficient till I break it down? Because that is indeed the case, every time the death loop shows up in other media, it's blatantly or outright said "yeah this is an alternate world thing going on".
 
Sir_Ovens said:
Yes but my argument takes less mental backflips to arrive to than "GER has multiversal range because he can send his opponents to other realities"

My argument uses abilities we established that GER already has and fits within the themes of his abilities.

If you want to disregard my argument that's fine too. But in no way are Efi or Chariot's reasons any more valid than mine.

I'd settle for Unknown at worst, Universal at best.
Click to expand...
i doubt it's sending diavolo in another point of time, in the first jojo universe there are no countless deaths of a dude recorded
 
Also let’s keep in mind GER has an unquantifiable superiority over MIH who has Uni+ range. So just flat out Uni range is wrong

Nevertheless I agree with Chariot and think he makes the most logical sense.
 
Unquantifiable superiority doesn't mean anything when the parameters GER is supposedly superior in aren't told to us.
 
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