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A small problem with the Katekyo Hitman Reborn revision.

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So I noticed that Katekyo Hitman Reborn was upgraded to island level recently thanks to the series having reliable multipliers, however while reading that thread I noticed a small problem. Byakuran´s 1.7622 gigatons was multiplied by 7, which is inacurate since it was Enma who recived the boost and was already stronger that the version of Tsuna that defeated Byakuran.

Thus I would like to propouse a solution. The first thing would be to determinate how strong Tsuna was with the vongola gear, and considering that Tsuna was stomping 80% Byakuran with only 50% of his power, it seems fair to asume he was at least twice as strong as him, making him 3.5244 gigatons,

Now the second th
C54cf2709783f61df97355829ba8a33d193eb7e7 144148 728 1053
ing would be to determinate how strong Enma was pre 7 days, and for that we need to find out how durable the original Vongola rings were. Now considering the next image:

This is important because it stablishes that rings can break if the user is too powerful, this means that the orinigal Vongola should be able to withstand a power equivalent to Tsunas 3.5244 gigatons. That, and the fact that Tsunas Xburner was unable to damage Byakurans Mare ring, which is similar in nature to the Vongola rings means that Enma must have at minimun twice the power of Tsuna with the original Vongola ring.

This would leave pre 7 days Enma with at least 7,0488 gigatons, which multiplied by 7 gives us 49,3416 gigatons.

Yeah it was a lot of text just to say "Tsuna is twice as strong as Byakuran and Enma was twice as strong as Tsuna before the 7 days" lol. Opinions?

Also apologies in advance for any spelling or gramatical errors, english is not my first languaje, and I hope that what I just wrote wasnt just nonesense.
 
Hmm, I don't ever remember there being a statement regarding the rings requiring to be overpowered in order for them to be broken. Didn't Enma and his gang specifically targeted the rings when they started their invasion rather than just fight tsuna's gang?
 
Well, IIRC we used 2x multiplier for stomping on verse like NNT. So I guess that 2x for stomping is ok. But that's just my opinion, let's see about other's opinions for this first.
 
Yeah, I recall that statement. It's why Hibari's rings break after he uses them, and why the Vongola and Mare rings, in part, are so important.

I was trying to low ball things so as to be as consistent as possible. Seeing as how the two statements don't contradict, this would be fine, seeing as how Tsuna was stomping after receiving an obvious power amp.

I can honestly see things either way. This is a bit more of a higher balled version of them, which I suppose is fine as it only includes an extra two times multiplier. But, seeing as how Enma specifically targeted the rings, like glassman says, I think it would be best to keep the low balled version of them, as it is the most fair way to evaluate them. An increase to twenty times over the course of one fight seems like a bit much. Byakuran being ten times stronger than Tsuna originally makes sense as he absorbed the flames from the verse's strongest fighters at the time.

If other folks would want this to go through, then I wouldn't be opposed, as the statement like is explicit and Tsuna begins stomping him. Not to mention that Byakuran takes damage from white applause, indicating that Tsuna is somewhere above him in power. I just think the low ball is a safer bet for the time being.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Hmm, I don't ever remember there being a statement regarding the rings requiring to be overpowered in order for them to be broken. Didn't Enma and his gang specifically targeted the rings when they started their invasion rather than just fight tsuna's gang?
Regarding Enma, that would be incorrect, Enma was fighting them and and the rings were broken as a side effect of the fight.

Vs Enma 1
Vs Enma 2


The start of the fight

Vs Enma 3
Vs Enma 4


Enma stomping

Vs Enma 5
Vs Enma 6


Rings being broken.

Vs Enma 7
Vs Enma 8


And considering that Byakuran´s ring didnt broke even after reciving the impact of Tsunas Xburner, an attack that is higher that its normal Ap, I would say Enma had to be at least twice as strong than Tsuna.

Katekyo Hitman reborn-Byakurans death
Katekyo Hitman reborn-Byakurans death 2
 
Higher than his normal AP doesn't mean twice necessarily.

As for the gravity manip, resisting that, unless by a special ability, is based on lifting strength. Enma didn't pour his flame powers into the ring, he crushed them past what their lifting strength would allow. But his seven times multiplier is already accepted, so I suppose that's a mute point.
 
I'm kinda meh on that. It is consistent, so I guess it's not exactly unusable. I guess it should be fine. It's the only difference between the current scaling and the one you've presented.

Perhaps message YungMazi as well. His input would help here.
 
May I ask if you can contact with them for me? I am new here and I am having problems finding that person. I apologize for the inconvenient.
 
@Xanxussama

If we apply every stomp/one-shot in KHR to a 2x multiplier it would be a huge upgrade in the final arc alone considering the fact that Tsuna gets stomped, then comes back stronger 3 times in the final arc.

@Everyone

As far as the upgrade goes. I see the logic behind it...but I think putting OVR Tsuna at 2x full power Byakuran is a bit highball. A more accurate number would be 1.5x - 1.8x.


As far as the Enma deal....I see the logic behind that as well...but to use the fact that Tsuna didn't break Byakuran's mare ring as reasoning for Enma being at least 1.5x - 1.8x is a bit of a reach IMO, because Enma was used as a plot device for shounen escalation....and that would also bring about plot holes concerning the end of the series (For example...Byakuran could fight with his mare ring, despite now being at least as strong as Enma was previously...same with Xanxus who has an even weaker ring)
 
Yeah I see what you mean regarding breaking the rings, I didn't even thought about the problems that would had caused for the final arc.

About Byakuran and OVR Tsuna, what about we calculed 80% Byakuran and make Tsuna twice that? Since after reading the fight they were closer that I remembered being before Tsuna went all out. That would make OVR Tsuna 2.81952 gigatons and Post 7 days Enma 19.73664 gigatons.
 
Well, seems like posting in my phone ****** up my message somehow, and my attempt to fix it made it worse. I will fix it when I go home and I am not bound to my phone.
 
So to summarized so far, upgrading Tsuna to twice as strong as 80% Byakuran seems to be accepted so far, however my resoning behind upgrading Enma to twice as OVR Tsuna was not.

Do you guys know any other knowlegable member that may have something to say regarding this?
 
Well, aside from broken rings. I still think that we can still use stomp/one-shot logic for this. Like I said that some of page also got tier from stomp logic, such as Ragyō Kiryüi which have High 7-A key from chain stomping from a Mountan level feat or Selvaria Bles which get 8-B tier from chain stomping from a 8-C+ feat. So I think that we should reconsider about this too, case by case of cause.
 
I don't think we should use stomp logic here. Kill la Kill is different as their chain is incredibly long such that bumping them up a tier is nowhere near ridiculous. But we have calced feats for KHR, so I think it's best to just use multipliers based upon what we have. In particular since stomping in the verse can also involve using a particular technique, fighting better, etc. Overall strength is always involved, but it's not necessarily the only thing.
 
Ok, then drop stomp logic. But how about just put pre 7 days Enma to around baseline 6-C? Since now we agree that OVR Tsuna is 2.81952 gigatons and baseline 6-C is 4.3 gigatons which is around 1.5x gap. We see that Enma completely stomp Tsuna, so 1.5x stronger shouln't be exaggeration, right? IIRC, Esdeath used to be 6-C by stomp a High 7-A+ character too. So I think that just pre 7 days Enma is ok.
 
@Theglassman12 & Litentric Teon

What are the TLDR conclusions here?
 
@Antvasima

Well basically we agreed that that original vongola ring Tsuna was 1.6 times stronger than Byakuran, based on 50% Tsuna being somehow equal than 80% Byakuran.

Regarding Enma, we are currently discusing how much stronger he was in comparason to OVR Tsuna, and since Tsuna would now be 2.81952 gigatons and pre 7 days Enma stopmped him, we though on making P7D Enma baseline 6-C and then applied the times 7 multiplier.
 
@Litentric Teon @YungManzi Your thoughs on making pre 7 days Enam baseline 6-C and then applied the times 7 multiplier?
 
I can close this if the changes have been made, but I would prefer a verification from other members first.
 
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