A references for common feats page?

[Mr. Bambu]

Crushing a car. Never done crushing calcs but it seems some are on there and crushing a car is more common than destroying it.

 

[Antvasima]

Your vaporization calc should have been evaluated first tho. Assalt was already working on it.

If there is a feat that has not been evaluated and accepted in the list, it should be removed.

 

[KLOL506]

Not to mention that the latent heat values of other materials are also missing.

And apparently the fact that you need to reach temperatures higher than 1250 degrees celsius to properly cremate anyone is also missing.

 

[Flashlight237]

Huge problem with the fist thing. A study on the human hand shows that the average human fist has an area of 0.043 square meters (43 cm^2).: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/154193128603000417

I measured my own fist and got an area of 40.32 cm^2, and I'm 5'6" tall. And yes, I measured my hand right where a fist would land in a punch. Either my hand is huge (my hand is 17.6 cm long and 7.8 cm wide; thumb not included and fingers put together), or the 25-square-centimeter figure is waaaaaaaaaay off.

 

[KLOL506]

Apparently in FanOfRPG's calc, Lina already mentioned to add the values of latent heat of vaporization of water with the specific heat capacity of water (Meaning, you have to use both to get the values). Aguilar told me the same thing. I guess Votron only used the latent heat of vaporization part and forgot the specific heat part.

I also found the values DT was asking for when he wanted to know where the 982.2 degrees celsius value came from. Here.

 

[Agnaa]

Huge problem with the fist thing. A study on the human hand shows that the average human fist has an area of 0.043 square meters (43 cm^2).: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/154193128603000417

I measured my own fist and got an area of 40.32 cm^2, and I'm 5'6" tall. And yes, I measured my hand right where a fist would land in a punch. Either my hand is huge (my hand is 17.6 cm long and 7.8 cm wide; thumb not included and fingers put together), or the 25-square-centimeter figure is waaaaaaaaaay off.

I don't have a ruler on me but the measurements you gave feel way off for a fist to me.

That study you linked measured the surface area of the hand (people opened their palms and they measured both sides as far as I can tell) rather than the surface area of the fist.

 

[Antvasima]

If there are calculations in the list that were not accepted by DontTalkDT or part of the previous official standard calculations, they should be removed as fast as possible.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, have the previously mentioned relevant images been added to the page yet?

 

[KLOL506]

If there are calculations in the list that were not accepted by DontTalkDT or part of the previous official standard calculations, they should be removed as fast as possible.

I removed the human vaporization calc because it was missing both the specific heat capacity and latent heat of vaporization of other materials (Which multiple calc members said had to be added to find the final value). The rest were accepted tho.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[Flashlight237]

That study you linked measured the surface area of the hand (people opened their palms and they measured both sides as far as I can tell) rather than the surface area of the fist.

"Surface area was measured photographically. Mean surface area for one hand (spread) was .054 square m (2.9% of Dubois surface area); for a fist it was .043 sq m (2.3% of Dubois)."

You should have read more closely.

 

[Flashlight237]

Also, for any other doubters, here are some measurable photos for my hand (in case you ask, yes, I only clipped my right thumbnail; I haven't really planned to be forced to use my left hand for photographic references).: https://imgur.com/a/dLduWg6

 

[Votron5]

@KLOL

I tweaked FanofRPG's original calculation to DontTalk specifications, so there should be no errors in the human vaporization calculation.

Also, I did add in the latent heat value for water but not for the rest because DontTalk said it should only be for water and not the rest of human body. DontTalk specifically said that in this thread.

Also, the specific heat capacity was calced for every material making up the body.

And I found a link to replace the dead link that DontTalk mentioned in Fan's original calc.

And the changes I made to the calc line up with Assalts thread. The only mistake I can see I made is that I added latent heat capacity with specific heat capacity (Even then IDK if that's a mistake since DT said to include it with water, not to necessarity take away specific heat capacity)

 

[KLOL506]

Aguilar said to add both Specific Heat Capacity and Latent Heat of Vaporization. Assalt also said the same thing, that it would make the overall result higher. Lina Shields, a former calc group member, also said the same thing in FanOfRPG's blog's comment section, saying the following:

"While it needs to be stressed that latent heat is a factor in changing the state of a material from a solid, to a liquid, to a gas, the above calculation regarding specific heat is a good enough lowball, since the actual value for this is likely going to be higher. Anyways, let's check the calc...

Since the temperature change is 1343.5 degrees Celsius, we will be using this value as Delta T.

Q = (Mass)*(Specific Heat)*(Temp. difference)

• Water = (37.2)*(4178)*(1343.5) = 208,708,963.2 J
• Fat = (10.54)*(2348)*(1343.5) = 33,248,830.52 J
• Protein = (9.92)*(3421)*(1343.5) = 45,593,445.92 J
• Minerals = (3.72)*(2348)*(1343.5) = 11,734,881.36 J
• Carbohydrates = (0.62)*(2348)*(1343.5) = 1,955,813.56 J

Add em all ups to get a value of... Qtotal = 301,241,934.6 J, or 0.072 Tons of TNT

An addition for this would be Q2 for water, since said water changed state from a liquid to a gas upon vaporization, which involves latent heat of vaporization. This is the only part of the calculation that we are certain on.

• Latent heat of vaporization of water =
• Q2 = (2257000 J/kg)*(37.2 kg) = 83,960,400 J
• Qtotal = 385,202,334.6 J, or 0.0921 Tons of TNT

Not sure about the latent heat of vaporization for substances other than water."

I guess it was my bad on the "latent heat for every element" part.

And judging by DT's comment, it does seem to indicate that he advocates adding in the latent heat of vaporization of water alongside the specific heat capacity, which matches up with Aguilar's comment.

 

[Votron5]

Next batch:
24. Vaping a human: "Average body temperature is 97.7┬░C or 37.5┬░C " one of those shouldn't be ┬░C.

Page regarding skin & bone melting doesn't load for me.

982.2┬░C-37.5┬░C = 944.7┬░C Ôëá 1343.5 ┬░C


Aside from that I would include the latent heat for water. For the rest it doesn't make sense to do so, but for water it's a good idea.

I'm only following DT's words he said in this thread. He specifically said it doesn't make sense to use latent heat for anything else in the calc other than water.

Also the temp difference should be 944.7 C, as quoted above.

 

[KLOL506]

I meant that it indicates that he also recommends adding the latent heat of vaporization of water alongside water's specific heat capacity only.

The temperature diffrence seems to be correctable according to DT's standard, not really the main problem tho. I just used Lina's comment to show that only water's values of specific heat and latent heat of vaporization should be added together, the other components can simply use specific heat.

In any case, I have messaged DT about this.

 

[Votron5]

If you check the history lf revision on the references page, you will see that I did exactly that. I added the latent heat of water with the specific heat of water and did that only with water. I also had specific heat of water calced to DT's suggestions.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/index.php?title=References_for_Common_Feats&diff=4194354&oldid=4191563

I am confused why you deleted it when there should be no problems with the calc. I can kinda understand if it should be peer reviewed by someone in the calc group, that I can understand (Which It shouldn't since it's pretty much the same calc just with different numbers). But, that doesn't seem to be your main concern or argument. You've even said that I didn't add in the specific heat for the rest of the materials, when that simply isn't true, as you can see in the link above.

 

[KLOL506]

Huh.

Wait, your specific heat capacity value seems to be wrong.

According to this calculator, with the temperature change of 944 degrees celsius, it's above the 100 MJ range if the water is in liquid state. You also forgot to add the specific heat value of water with its latent heat of vaporization value, because I'm only able to find the latent heat according to the history.

And what I meant by adding was...

Latent heat of vaporization+Specific Heat= value of water (Hope that clears confusions)

 

[KLOL506]

So,

This calculator gives the value of 146.834 MJ for water of 37.2 kg when it comes to specific heat. (I used the liquid state of water). I think you forgot to multiply the value with the temperature rise, because 37.2*4.178 kJ per kilogram*944 degrees celsius= 146,834 kilojoules, or 146.834 MJ, not 146,834 joules.

And this calculator gives the value of 84.247 MJ for water of 37.2 kg when it comes to latent heat of vaporization.

Adding the two gives me a value of 231 MJ for water alone.

 

[Votron5]

Ah, another conversion error on my part. Thank you for clearing the mixup. I didn't add the specific heat capacity and latent heat of water together in the beginning because I added the those values together (Along with the other values) in the conclusion. So, it would be unnecessary to do that in the beginning when I would get the same result.

The conversion error is easily fixable.

 

[KLOL506]

Ah. I see.

Now I think the calc is okay to go (With the new values and all). But I think you should have specified in the beginning so that readers can easily understand how the values were obtained without much hassle.

 

[KLOL506]

Also, I did some digging and Wikipedia's Crematorium page gives me values of 760 degrees celsius to 1150 degrees celsius, which averages out at 955 degrees celsius. Maybe we should use this instead.

Also looks like the values for other materials are in joules even tho using specific heat capacity would make them megajoules too.

EDIT: YUP, as I suspected. You mistook the element's values in joules instead of megajoules. I'll redo the calc here, I guess.

EDIT 2: Surprise, surprise, DT has confirmed that you would need to add water's values of specific heat and latent heat of vaporization together to find the final value.

 

[Votron5]

I think it would be best to use the high-end temperature due to the whole body being vaporized almost instantly.

 

[Votron5]

Also checking that crematory wikipedia page, it doesn't give a source for that 760 to 1150 number so I do not know how reliable that number is.

 

[KLOL506]

I think it would be best to use the high-end temperature due to the whole body being vaporized almost instantly.

Fair point.

Also, I found this about the temperatures.

 

[Votron5]

I believe the vaporization feat should be fixed now taking in account all the criticisms.

And that source I already linked in the feat. That is how I got the 1800 F temp.

 

[KLOL506]

Oh.

 

[KLOL506]

Okay, calc'ing time.

Let's start with water.

https://www.thoughtco.com/chemical-composition-of-the-human-body-603995

Crematoriums usually operate at temperatures of 1400┬░F-1800┬░F (760┬░C-982.22┬░C) according to this link.

I'll use the highest value of 982.22┬░C.

Average body temperature is 37.5┬░C

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_body_temperature

So the temperature change is by 944.72┬░C

http://endmemo.com/physics/specificheat.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_body_weight

The average human is 62 kilograms

STEP I

I will start with water

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_water

60% of human mass is water, or 37.2 kilograms.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/water-thermal-properties-d_162.html

The heat capacity of water is 4.1813 kilojoules per kilogram according to wikipedia. Our Calculations page states a number of 4.186 kilojoules per kilogram.

Plugging the values into this calculator, we get 146.946 megajoules.

Latent heat of vaporization of water is 2,264.705 J/kg

Plugging in the values into this calculator, we get:

84.25 megajoules STEP II

https://www.itis.ethz.ch/virtual-population/tissue-properties/database/heat-capacity/

Average amount for body fat is 2.348 kilojoules per kilogram (or 2348 joules per kilogram)

Fat seems to be 17% of body mass, or 10.54 kilograms going by the numbers shown

Plugging it into the specific heat energy calculator, that's 23.37985 megajoules.


STEP III

Protein makes up 16% of body mass, which means it makes up 9.92 kilograms of the body

https://www.itis.ethz.ch/virtual-population/tissue-properties/database/heat-capacity/

Muscle has a heat capacity of 3.421 kilojoules per kilogram

That's 32.0603 megajoules, plugging it into the specific heat energy calculator


STEP IV

For minerals, it makes up 6% of body mass, or 3.72 kilograms.

Cortical bone is 1.313 kilojoules per kilogram.

Plugging the values in the specific heat calculator gives us:

4.61435 megajoules


STEP V

Carbohydrates make up merely 1% of human weight, or 0.62 kilograms

https://www.researchgate.net/post/W...s_for_liquid_amorphous_glass_and_solid_states

Heat energy of sugar (carbohydrate) is 1.255 kilojoules per kilogram.

Plugging the values in the specific heat calculator gives us:

0.735087 megajoules

Conclusion

Adding in all the values, we get 291.985587 megajoules (Small Building level)

EDIT: Seems I made a mistake with the specific heat values of water. It's actually 146.946 megajoules.

 

[Votron5]

Our results are pretty close, 291,896,110.5 J for me. I think the reason we got different number was because you had 944.72 C and I had 944.7 C

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah, it would be pretty close, but 944.72 C is the more accurate value, so I went with that.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Oh yeah, forgot that change in temperature was actually high balled for human vaporization. Anyway, glad to know final result is still more or less the same.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Before I start looking over everything else here I will just comment on the last three:

47. Blowing up canons: I find a slightly lower density for cast iro, but that's ok. This requires the actual link to wikipedia that the weight claim is based on. Aside from that ok.

48. Bending steel rod: I think there was a debate about what the bending area should be and I am not really sure.

49. Crushing ring sized diamond: I should start with saying that diamons in rings can actually be seriously tiny. Hence, I don't think this is a standard for any ring diamond.

A source for the 110,000 should be added.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

48. Well for fragmentation and violent fragmentation, in reality not the whole thing is broken as pieces are left, yet we still use volume of the whole thing.

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalkDT

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I will add the cannon calc to the page.

 

[KLOL506]

Bump

Okay, so the dura needed to be covered in fire is left to be calc'd properly, since I can't use the luminosity calculator for starters.

 

[Antvasima]

Since DontTalkDT has finished his evaluations, should I lock the page, and add it to the footnote sections of the Attack Potency and Durability pages?

Or is there something left to do here?

 

[KLOL506]

The fire-based calc is left to be redone.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Antvasima]

So should I lock the References for Common Feats page, and add links to the Attack Potency and Durability pages?