- 167,857
- 76,474
- Thread starter
- #41
Well, it wasn't intended to be a big issue, but it has an inherently explosive nature currently, and we needed to create a new rules text via our usual standard procedure.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
A possible new rule for gender sections in our character profile pages
- Thread starter Antvasima
- Start date
-
- Tags
- editing rules
- Status
- 167,857
- 76,474
- Thread starter
- #42
That seems like an unusual enough circumstance to not need a specific regulation. It also feel a bit insensitive to mention.
- 11,807
- 7,371
A bajillion different things can be a factor in a match, my Alliance section addition could've been a factor in a match, a character's greatest fear can be a factor in a match, their relatives can be a factor im a match, their mental conditions can be factor in a match, their species can be a factor in a match.
It's not an excuse to jam in every single thing we can think of to be a factor in the match, onto the file.
No. There isn't your case. You aren't Shakespeare where you can invent your own definitions, AKM, in fact it's offensive for you to suggest so.
How unfortunate, so I suppose we should just not list a character's sex then.
We are NOT WIKIPEDIA, we are VERSUS BATTLES WIKI. 90% of the matches biological sex is just not a factor.
You're inventing an issue where isn't one, nobody will be completely inept in understanding a character's dynamics if they don't know if their **** are real or something.
- 10,285
- 2,761
I mean, gender specific hax exist, like Ocean Sirens of folklore. vsbattles.fandom is aiming to index all of fiction.
- 31,398
- 27,689
Gender-specific hax should be looked at on case-by-case basis when it appears; we don't need a single overriding policy for that at the moment.
- 11,807
- 7,371
Having minor colored responses isn't hostilities, in that way alot of things I can paint as hostilities.
I haven't insulted either of their capabilities, and have addressed their points, but if their logic is ridiculous then I cannot help if me pointing it out makes them look worse.
- 4,703
- 1,634
There is also the fact we need this listed on our site rules
- 11,807
- 7,371
Just discuss it on the thread.
- 11,135
- 14,120
I'm fine with the suggested draft as long as we make a mention of their biological sex in the summary with full context, whether it is part of their early life or any given key, since I feel the information is relevant for gender-specific powers.
- 167,857
- 76,474
- Thread starter
- #51
I think that this seems like a better solution, yes.
- 10,285
- 2,761
- 11,807
- 7,371
Gender specific powers barely get used in a Vs. Debate sphere, I'm active on the wiki forum, it's irrelevant, so no I disagree with unnaturally forcing trans characters to be outed somewhere on the file.
If a user want to do that it's fine, but it isn't something to be ******* mandated lol
- 31,398
- 27,689
Characters can't be "outed" on an indexing wiki. That's like complaining that a spy character has their true name revealed on their profile when the character is supposed to be undercover. On a wiki for fictional characters, that kind of thing is irrelevant.
- 10,285
- 2,761
“Barely” means it’s used, therefore it’s included into all. What are we to do when someone uses a gender-specific Hax in a debate? Ignore them, trash them, shame them for using a power in a vs debate?
- 11,807
- 7,371
Wow Damage congrats on nitpicking my terminology and voiding my entire response's context.
It's annoying to do that, to be blunt, especially when I'm arguing two different users at once right now with barely any support.
- 31,398
- 27,689
Apologies if I came across as nitpicking; just wanted to address that part.
- 11,807
- 7,371
Are you aware of slippery slope fallacy, Elixir?
- 11,807
- 7,371
I don't think the actual message is hard to comprehend, if it is I can repeat it for you.
- 11,135
- 14,120
So something like this:
"Always consistently use the preferred pronouns of transgender characters in their character profile pages, and only list the gender that they identify as in this section of the pages in question, not anything further. Any further details can be provided in the summary if need be."
"Always consistently use the preferred pronouns of transgender characters in their character profile pages, and only list the gender that they identify as in this section of the pages in question, not anything further. Any further details can be provided in the summary if need be."
- 10,285
- 2,761
Sure… (having that as your response kinda ticked me off)
… but who is using fallacy here? I don’t think I am by being someone who is trying to keep in mind for all possibilities is being the one using fallacy and I’m not calling things irrelevant cause I said so.
- 31,398
- 27,689
I'm sorry that I've annoyed you, but just because you're discussing something with another user doesn't mean a second user can't jump in.
- 167,857
- 76,474
- Thread starter
- #64
Impress, you are still being unnecessarily aggressive in my view. AKM and Damage mentioned that most transgender people do not seem to consider Fandom's standards offensive, given that they were approved by representative organisations and are officially used in most international companies. Those are valid fact-based arguments, even though I personally prefer to show consideration towards the minority that do find this offensive and also try to maintain a peaceful environment here by doing so.
Abstractions
Femur Breaker
VS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Administrator
Content Moderator
Human Resources
- 2,639
- 2,831
This is a strawman of the argument.
- 167,857
- 76,474
- Thread starter
- #66
Well, that would likely offend a considerable part of our trans-members as well.
- 31,398
- 27,689
@Antvasima; why would that be offensive? That is the exactly same wording proposed earlier in the thread but with the addition that any extra details can be added in the summary section.
- 4,703
- 1,634
I not sure on this as I think AKM meant the summary we provided of the fictional characters. Like a short bio or something
- 4,922
- 2,329
Why is this even a thread?
Just list them as their preferred gender ffs, if you need to be explained why you should refer to someone by their preferred gender I think you have bigger issues to deal with then whatever you’re doing on this site and forum
Just list them as their preferred gender ffs, if you need to be explained why you should refer to someone by their preferred gender I think you have bigger issues to deal with then whatever you’re doing on this site and forum
- 4,703
- 1,634
We also need to get this listed in a ruling page. https://community.fandom.com/wiki/Gender_Identity_Guidelines#General_Style_Guide
I think the editing rule will do.
I think the editing rule will do.
- 11,807
- 7,371
Damage attempting to now lecture me for my minor ass exasperations.
Literally calls something I said dumb when I said beforehand it was a minor terminology error.
But besides that if my method of speaking causes someone offense when I don't even levy insults at them then I think the debate site needs to realize people have different ways of talking sometimes.
In different contexts. I demonstrate that, they still double down on it, and I am addressing it. Stop acting like I cannot address them especially when they're inconsiderate of the context at hand.
Completely disagree with the lastmost part, again, a user can add them, mandating it is the exact same issue as listing it in Gender section.
- 10,285
- 2,761
What strawman? I’m not preventing changes from being made. I’m trying to raise a voice for a minority of fictions that does have gender-specific Hax. We should take those abilities into account for all standards if we are indexing all of fiction, not only making policies to the loudest voices in the room.
I’m advocating gender-specific Haxes on vsbattles.fandom only effect what someone identifies as and making a note of that.
- 11,807
- 7,371
...mate it should just be case-by-case and discussed on the thread itself.
- 11,135
- 14,120
By summary I meant the summary section.
The last phrase is "if need be". It's not mandatory. People need to know where to mention any details if they want to, if the need arises. The need can arise depending on context about a key or a character's past life.
Abstractions
Femur Breaker
VS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Administrator
Content Moderator
Human Resources
- 2,639
- 2,831
You're advocating for a specific listing of AMAB or AFAB with said argument in mind, but are attempting to appeal to an extreme by saying that because people do not want this listing, that they would also trash or shame people for bringing up said gender-specific power in the middle of a debate despite people never saying this. You aren't tackling the argument and instead conjured up your own and attacked that as if it was their argument.
- 10,285
- 2,761
But that leaves it open to be discussed about in terms of biology and I can already see the toxic arguments getting someone banned from the wiki… sigh, nevermind. We could always use the entertainment. :/
- 167,857
- 76,474
- Thread starter
- #77
Well, I thought that the idea of including any form of information about the assigned by birth gender was stated to be considered offensive here.
Anyway, just to clarify Damage's and AKM's motivations here, to prevent further false accusations, it definitely isn't remotely about transphobia, it is just about that they are high-level (borderline professional) extremely dedicated wiki editors who want to include all valid information about characters, and follow the established regulations to the letter. That's it.
Many of us are basically nerds here, in a good way. We are fixated on organising and listing facts all day long, and deliberately removing such information can feel very unnatural to our mentalities due to this.
- 11,807
- 7,371
It's still implied to be encouraged. It shouldn't be encouraged.
No need to unnaturally attempt to address it on the file.
- 11,807
- 7,371
Not to be the person but like, again, that's ignorance if they're being persistent in their beliefs yet still.
- 31,398
- 27,689
I would say that isn't an attempt at a lecture from me... but that'll sound like another lecture, so whatever.
People having a different opinion to you doesn't mean they're being inconsiderate or disrespectful. You just seem ultra-fixated on your perspective being the only correct one.
We're not ignorant. We just see things differently to you. Just because somebody sees something differently to you doesn't mean they're missing some vital information or belief that will adjust them to the "correct" viewpoint.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
