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A definitely not so controversial Dragon ball toei upgrade

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This post reminded me that i also was planning a low 1-c afterlife crt 2 years ago 😭😭😭😭😭😭

Though, ima input my status as neutral for now. Waiting for more arguments.
 
You basically need to have Uncountably-Infinite (ℵ1 Aleph-1) specific numbered-dimensions (Ex: 2-D) in order to achieve a higher one (3-D) right?
 
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GarrixianXD said:
If the translation here is precise then this should be fine. I can agree for now, but it'll be useful if someone can refine the translations.

@Wankbreaker @Qliphoth_Bacikal @Agnaa @Apotheosis69
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It's funny you asked me this when someone before somewhat asked me on my wall about this sort of thing.

Even though I didn't respond for shit because the way they thought it was read got me so annoyed so LOL.

Seems like I don't really need to check since Wank and Apop were here.
 
DivineAura44 said:
Only one staff commented so far and they disagreed 🗿
(Excluding the translation helpers/content mods/calc group members, they count in my heart)
Click to expand...
There aurgment was easily explained away, they just never replied to the counter, I hardly think it counts
 
I don't think 5D Goku is that big of a stretch.

Sure, I remember Goku being Tier 2 for like 6 years by now but thats to be expected.

Dragonball is a controversial topic, especially offserver, dued to how often it can be easily it wanked to absurd proportions and sometimes downplayed funnily enough but I don't necessarily think this is one of them.

I think Possibly should work because its just 1-2 statements
 
BoastJr said:
I think Possibly should work because its just 1-2 statements
Click to expand...
But those statements are clear and the in-verse depictions of these statements are verified due to heaven being infinite in size yet finite compared to the Afterlife. What's "possibly" about it?
 
Darkmon_cns said:
Well it's fine if you disagree, I can't aurge against a stance I don't really understand. So I'll just leave it to others
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You understand me pretty well, else you do not understand your own argument.
1. You claim there is a mention of it being transcendental, hence has a 4th spatial dimension.
I will like for you to show me where? A statement of transcending without prove of how means nothing as far as the wiki goes.
2. You said heaven is infinite and the afterlife contains it.
Sure infinities can be subsets of each other. Exhibit A- set of all numbers that ends with one is infinite and is a subset of set of all odd numbers which is also infinite and is also a subset of all numbers which is also infinite.
3. When we look up at the sky, the animators did not draw heaven or depict in the sky.
This is not even an argument

These are your 2/3 arguments, suffice to say they are all weak and proves nothing remotely close to afterlife having an extra dimension
 
PrinceofPein said:
1. You claim there is a mention of it being transcendental, hence has a 4th spatial dimension.
I will like for you to show me where? A statement of transcending without prove of how means nothing as far as the wiki goes.
Click to expand...
1. It is literally said it transcend dimensions to the point human can't comprehend it, human in dragon ball term refering to mortal, not just earth human, and human at best can only comprehend up to, at best 3 spatial + 1 temporal, if it not higher, extra dimension then idk what else that for your standard

2. Again scan said Gods from said dimension looking down on the whole mortal world while human can't comprehend it, it is literally describe the common relationship between higher dimension and lower dimension when higher dimension can see the whole lower one while the lower one can't comprehend the higher

No offense everything within the statement itself and you just cherrypicking a single line: transcend dimension and said it vague. Of course if we do that way then everything in fiction is vague
 
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Vietthai96 said:
1. It is literally said it transcend dimensions to the point human can't comprehend it, human in dragon ball term refering to mortal, not just earth human, and human at best can only comprehend up to, at best 3 spatial + 1 temporal, if it not higher, extra dimension then idk what else that for your standard
Click to expand...
I dislike arguing with people who twists scans for their own argument sake
"Higher than the heavens, transcends dimensions that cannot be seen from the human world, the gods of the heavenly land look down on all the world from this place"
Click to expand...
Here is what the scans says. And I have no interest in arguing semantics, just meaning and what it means for tiering
Vietthai96 said:
2. Again scan said Gods from said dimension looking down on the whole mortal world while human can't comprehend it, it is literally describe the common relationship between higher dimension and lower dimension when higher dimension can see the whole lower one while the lower one can't comprehend the higher
Click to expand...
Again read above, none of your scan implies this.
Vietthai96 said:
No offense everything within the statement itself and you just cherrypicking a single line: transcend dimension and said it vague. Of course if we do that way then everything in fiction is vague
Click to expand...
Actually the only part of the scan that actually remotely is the transcend dimension part
Exhibits
1. Higher than the heavens, = means nothing
2. transcends dimensions that cannot be seen from the human world = Also frankly means nothing in tiering
3. the gods of the heavenly land look down on all the world from this place = Well again nothing
Join the 3 together and they still have no substance that grants low 1-C.

And beside I made argument about the whole infinite space containing another meaning one must be infinitesimal to the other, and showed how that is wrong. And the last argument using a depiction is also baseless.

This incessant need to have Goku at low 1-C is really getting too much and too many thread has been made and each with different arguments and each has been rejected, there should be a discussion rule at this point
 
Vietthai96 said:
1. It is literally said it transcend dimensions to the point human can't comprehend it, human in dragon ball term refering to mortal, not just earth human, and human at best can only comprehend up to, at best 3 spatial + 1 temporal, if it not higher, extra dimension then idk what else that for your standard
Click to expand...
Um thats not true. and 3D+1D is 3D still so i see no reason to uphold this. if temporal = spatial upholds as the standards just say 4D theres no reason to include the temporal axis they are equal. now if they aren't equal 3D+1D is still categorically and physically 3D, and theres a reason are eyes not to appeal to reality but in this case we see stuff as 3D because of how are eyes work but in reality its more like we are seeing a 2D image. Comprehend is irrelevant because linear algebra says your wrong, the axiom of incidence says your wrong about it only going up to 3D, heck even the standard notion for topology in the backing of R^4 timelines says your wrong, considering hyperspatial and the W axis is not that hard to comprehend when you have the physical math equations backing them up and axioms.

This is the equal to arguing "You need to Prove X verse has X perceptive to prove it actually is n-dimensional because are perspective itself is limited to 3D"
 
PrinceofPein said:
I dislike arguing with people who twists scans for their own argument sake

Here is what the scans says. And I have no interest in arguing semantics, just meaning and what it means for tiering

Again read above, none of your scan implies this.

Actually the only part of the scan that actually remotely is the transcend dimension part
Exhibits
1. Higher than the heavens, = means nothing
2. transcends dimensions that cannot be seen from the human world = Also frankly means nothing in tiering
3. the gods of the heavenly land look down on all the world from this place = Well again nothing
Join the 3 together and they still have no substance that grants low 1-C.

And beside I made argument about the whole infinite space containing another meaning one must be infinitesimal to the other, and showed how that is wrong. And the last argument using a depiction is also baseless.

This incessant need to have Goku at low 1-C is really getting too much and too many thread has been made and each with different arguments and each has been rejected, there should be a discussion rule at this point
Click to expand...
Regardless of whatever the actual strength of your arguements may be, this bitter and accusatory attitude is incredibly unproductive. Knock it off.
 
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XXBenShapiroXx said:
Regardless of the strength of your arguements, this bitter and accusatory attitude is incredibly unproductive. Knock it off.
Click to expand...
Not to mention that comment is just a bunch of words mashed up together consisting of "you're playing semantics", "It doesn't mean anything" with the cherry on top being the supposed "need for a Low 1-C Goku" part. It's a great way to conveniently ignore an argument (because the argument wasn't addressed at all) and throw a jab at the supporters.
 
PrinceofPein said:
I dislike arguing with people who twists scans for their own argument sake
Here is what the scans says. And I have no interest in arguing semantics, just meaning and what it means for tiering
Click to expand...
What twisting scans about, what you quote is literally the same, you are the one who trying to be sematic thinking that somehow the texts is slightly differ mean the meaning is also differ

PrinceofPein said:
ctually the only part of the scan that actually remotely is the transcend dimension part
Exhibits
1. Higher than the heavens, = means nothing
2. transcends dimensions that cannot be seen from the human world = Also frankly means nothing in tiering
3. the gods of the heavenly land look down on all the world from this place = Well again nothing
Join the 3 together and they still have no substance that grants low 1-C.
Click to expand...
And i dislike people who isolating and picking up words by words. Seriously, you picking up certain words, said they are vague and mean nothing, then said everything, seriously, if counterargument is that easy, then everyone is a master debater by just counter: they are vague

PrinceofPein said:
And beside I made argument about the whole infinite space containing another meaning one must be infinitesimal to the other, and showed how that is wrong. And the last argument using a depiction is also baseless.

This incessant need to have Goku at low 1-C is really getting too much and too many thread has been made and each with different arguments and each has been rejected, there should be a discussion rule at this point
Click to expand...
Infinitesimal is just another way to prove higher dimension. So the only counter arguments you have is the statement is vague and somehow you narrow standard down to only 1 way to get higher tier

Now it's arguing time
1. Higher than heaven, you need to know that Afterlife is a dimension, so higher than heaven, literally mean Afterlife is higher dimension

2. Transcend dimension which the kanji itself mean go beyond/surpassing (i'm lazy to copypaste the texts but translators and OP already posted so you can look at or you will again call me twisting texts). The universe itself is 3 spatial dimensions (i'm exclude the temporal dimension cause we not arguing about time), so literally, in order to go beyond/surpassing 3 dimensions, you need to be 4th dimension at least, and universe is already infinite in size thus 3 infinite spatial dimension, literally only 4th dimension is beyond/surpassing 3 infinite dimensions. Idk how much mental-gymnastic or self-hypnotism to the point of not understand this simply logic

3. the gods of the heavenly land look down on all the world from this place. Again i love how this still prove my point

4. You conveniently leave out the human can't perceive Afterlife part

So at this point you just do not have any credibility at all, your only way to counter against me, the evidences, and others is isolating, cherrypicking texts, saying statements is vague without actually proving, accused me of twisting scans, narrowing standards down to only 1 way to get higher tier

On phone so my activity is limited so i can't exactly post scans, but i believe scans is already presented to back up my points
 
Vietthai96 said:
What twisting scans about, what you quote is literally the same, you are the one who trying to be sematic thinking that somehow the texts is slightly differ mean the meaning is also differ


And i dislike people who isolating and picking up words by words. Seriously, you picking up certain words, said they are vague and mean nothing, then said everything, seriously, if counterargument is that easy, then everyone is a master debater by just counter: they are vague


Infinitesimal is just another way to prove higher dimension. So the only counter arguments you have is the statement is vague and somehow you narrow standard down to only 1 way to get higher tier

Now it's arguing time
1. Higher than heaven, you need to know that Afterlife is a dimension, so higher than heaven, literally mean Afterlife is higher dimension

2. Transcend dimension which the kanji itself mean go beyond/surpassing (i'm lazy to copypaste the texts but translators and OP already posted so you can look at or you will again call me twisting texts). The universe itself is 3 spatial dimensions (i'm exclude the temporal dimension cause we not arguing about time), so literally, in order to go beyond/surpassing 3 dimensions, you need to be 4th dimension at least, and universe is already infinite in size thus 3 infinite spatial dimension, literally only 4th dimension is beyond/surpassing 3 infinite dimensions. Idk how much mental-gymnastic or self-hypnotism to the point of not understand this simply logic

3. the gods of the heavenly land look down on all the world from this place. Again i love how this still prove my point

4. You conveniently leave out the human can't perceive Afterlife part

So at this point you just do not have any credibility at all, your only way to counter against me, the evidences, and others is isolating, cherrypicking texts, saying statements is vague without actually proving, accused me of twisting scans, narrowing standards down to only 1 way to get higher tier

On phone so my activity is limited so i can't exactly post scans, but i believe scans is already presented to back up my points
Click to expand...
"The universe itself is 3 spatial dimensions" thats only true if the Universe is flat though. "so literally, in order to go beyond/surpassing 3 dimensions, you need to be 4th dimension at least," well thats what i think everyone has agreed on though fro Db to be Low multi is that the distance from the Universe to the afterlife requires the 4th vector it being infinite or not i don't believe matters. "universe is already infinite in size thus 3 infinite spatial dimension" no thats wrong. A infinited Sized 3D plane, is not the same as like a infinite amount of 3D spatial dimensions. Ie All you are establishing is the Distance and range of the Universe as just being infinite in sized. or maybe I am steelmaning you either way its still 3D doesn't matter its size, um no the 4th dimension is not the "only" one but the later is basically just 3.5D but no one cares so thats irrelevant.


Humans can't perceive the afterlife because its on top of the Universe we even see the camera pan out from the Universe up above the clouds, so of course there perspective can't see beyond the Universe a spiritual dimension directly on top of them.
I feel this just ends up in one big circle argument of it Just boiling down to 4D still
 
LifeRiderthe1 said:
"The universe itself is 3 spatial dimensions" thats only true if the Universe is flat though. "so literally, in order to go beyond/surpassing 3 dimensions, you need to be 4th dimension at least," well thats what i think everyone has agreed on though fro Db to be Low multi is that the distance from the Universe to the afterlife requires the 4th vector it being infinite or not i don't believe matters. "universe is already infinite in size thus 3 infinite spatial dimension" no thats wrong. A infinited Sized 3D plane, is not the same as like a infinite amount of 3D spatial dimensions. Ie All you are establishing is the Distance and range of the Universe as just being infinite in sized. or maybe I am steelmaning you either way its still 3D doesn't matter its size, um no the 4th dimension is not the "only" one but the later is basically just 3.5D but no one cares so thats irrelevant.


Humans can't perceive the afterlife because its on top of the Universe we even see the camera pan out from the Universe up above the clouds, so of course there perspective can't see beyond the Universe a spiritual dimension directly on top of them.
I feel this just ends up in one big circle argument of it Just boiling down to 4D still
Click to expand...
1. No offense, what the hell is 3.5D?, and genuine question, what system you are using?

2. Even though my grammar is shit, your comment is so incoherent

Edit: what is flat universe?, beyond flat earth we have flat universe now?
 
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Vietthai96 said:
1. No offense, what the hell is 3.5D?, and genuine question, what system you are using?

2. Even though my grammar is shit, your comment is so incoherent
Click to expand...
how do you know dimensional tiering but don't know 3.5D.....
TiltedFN said:
3.5D??
42e967d919c549077dd3f38942975a4e.jpg
Click to expand...
same for you.
This is just basic mathematical dimension stuff or otherwise called fractal dimensions. for example "1.585D" is a fractal dimension. unlike vector spaces, degrees of freedom or Hilbert spaces these are the more of the in most usual cases the "in-between but still higher then" normal spatial points as described by the degrees of freedom and as said kinda irrelevant, but its still point out 4D is not the only one higher then 3D.


"Even though my grammar is shit, your comment is so incoherent"

How is it incoherent? saying its incoherent doesn't make it incoherent in the first place. Ie You are comparing a infinite sized plane vs a oven with rails stacked infinitely which one is it. the manifold with a infinite amount of 3D structures or just a single Universe thats infinite in sized.
Ottavio_Merluzzo said:
We're on VSBW, so we follow VSBW's tiering system. Don't clog the thread with unnecessary comments.
Click to expand...
How is it unnecessary. As far as I am aware no tiering system stops fractal dimensions outside the ones who disagree with dimensional tiering itself ie disagree with the axiom of incidence. Besides they said " literally only 4th dimension is beyond/surpassing 3 infinite dimensions" guess what 3.5D is in fact beyond 3D same way stacking a infinite amount of 3D planes on top of one another is not 4D the issue is comparing a infinite amount of 3D structures stacked to like a single 3D object thats infinite in size. neither obviously will never reach the 4th no duh.

Yes ik theres some semantics to using hyperplanes, wait till they find out linear space is a thing.

Just say the field equation makes the Universe 4D thust the distance from the earth to the top of the bubble requires the 5th vector and stop these weird notions.

"Edit: what is flat universe?, beyond flat earth we have flat universe now?"

Edit: The Universe is 4D in non Euclidean geometry as far as anyone is concerned unless we are ad popliuming what literal every paper to have ever been written is just wrong and we are making up our own definition of The universe. Not like the Universe itself even produces 3=A in terms of energy. You said a 3D universe which would mean you believe the Universe is 2D+1D=3D. and not the later of 3D+1D=4D. A flat universe is when spacetime is a flat vs the later of it bending if you will upwards. Also flat earth and flat universe are not equal btw earth is still its normal shape even in a Flat universe, only the Universe is flat and that only works if you are asserting the Db universe itself is flat and not curved or like a oval/circle if you will.
 
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BoastJr said:
We Saiyans will never get 5D without 20 Pages of arguments
IMG-7331.jpg
Click to expand...
I mean i think it be funny more then the amount of arguments. Low 1-C pan vs 2-C broly.
CelestialVortex01 said:
Guys it's LifeRiderthe1 ofcourse 3.5D exist
Click to expand...
Whats that supposed to mean? fractal dimensions are a real thing. But i even said it they are irrelevant I just added there mention because they said "only" which is wrong.

idk if i said it already but voting is just based off mods right? cause i forgot again
 
I agree with the scale. Should be very logical to be accepted but unlikely would happen as staffs here probably have a vendetta against DB verse
 
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