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8-B psychopathic tournament: Psycho Mantis vs Mukuro Ikusaba

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8-B Psychopathic Tournament MATCH 2​

  • Speed is equalized
  • 10 meters apart
  • Battle takes place in Madness Combat Nevada
Both are 8-B (Makuro is in her second key)

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Psycho Mantis: 6 (Expectro2000xxx, XSOULOFCINDERX, Chariot190, DontTalkDT, Popted2, AnAverageUsername)

Mukuro:​
 
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Someone list off this chick's good points in a cohesive bullet point list and I'll do the same for Mantis. This will enable us to list off the cool shit first and in one go in a quick, non long as **** manner first before starting to debate and what not.
 
My analyzes from profiles alone:
So it's 16.27 vs 23.55 tons in Mantis favour.
Both can do mind stuff. Not sure how Mantis' brainwashing works, but Mukuro does mental effects via acupuncture or singing apparently.
Aside from that Mokuros main advantages seem to be immense skill, instinctive reaction and the ability to see the world in slow motion.
Mantis has his invisibility, but that can likely be countered by Mokuros instincts and enhanced senses.
Mantis main advantages hence seem to be his intangibility, precognition and posession?

I think that comes down to how the characters use their powers in character... and the details on the mind stuff both have.
 
Am pretty sure that Mukuro won't go for her madness hax right off the bat. She'll probs try to engage Mantis with gunplay first-and-foremost than thinking of using her hax. Her acupuncture shit is also probably not usable in combat since the only time she did use it was with a woman who was tied up and unable to fight back.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Am pretty sure that Mukuro won't go for her madness hax right off the bat. She'll probs try to engage Mantis with gunplay first-and-foremost than thinking of using her hax. Her acupuncture shit is also probably not usable in combat since the only time she did use it was with a woman who was tied up and unable to fight back.
Click to expand...
Then Mantis would have a big advantage if he goes for his mind stuff in-character.
Does he, though?
 
PM's precog can help counter skill. Hell, it takes someone as skilled as Snake to get past Psycho Mantis' illusions. I doubt Mukuro is on that level even with her enhanced senses.

The only reason Snake stood a chance against Mantis was because Snake was able to resist pretty much everything he had.

Between his mind reading, precog and illusions, Mantis has full control of this fight.
 
*Mind Reading and Precognition /Retrocognition. Utilized against Solid Snake. This enables Mantis to read his foe's moves and actions they will take, know what they're gonna do, before they even do it. This is quite helpful as displayed against Snake as, as long as Mantis was reading him, Snake, even with all his skill, could barely land even a single hit on him, Mantis simply knew it was coming ahead of time and dodged (dude literally read Snake's inputs, literally, Mantis breaks the 4th wall a lot, dude's a ******* input reader), whether it be melee, gunfire, grenades, and more. Snake got around this by emptying his mind, going full autopilot and not being cognizant of his actions at all, whether that be attacking, defending, and the consequences of said actions, basically, Snake whipped out Ultra Instinct to bypass Mantis mind reading as if Mantis couldn't read his mind to know what was coming, the attacks could hit (Of course Mantis can make use of his abilities and skill to dodge attacks still, he just can't zero diff neg them now, he has to actually TRY to dodge like a normal person). There are other ways around this but emptying your mind and going UI is the best counter and the counter Snake canonically used (by switching controller ports but hey, it be like it do), another counter, though one that might not be useful in matches is making Mantis see himself, Mantis hates the way he looks (his face to be exact), if he sees his face or a vision of it, it ***** with him so bad he can't use his powers right, if his foe can make him see himself, this would basically **** him up and render him vulnerable in not just this, but almost everything. Anyway this definitely gives him a solid advantage, as he'd know what she's going to do, and can work around it. He also has retrocognition, he can see the past of others, this enables him to know his foe's capabilities and what not. Of course, even if you take away mind reading, he also has precognition, being able to see other's futures and actions, this isn't exactly easy to counter, but I'm also not sure how combat applicable it is, he never uses precog in a fight, he relies on mind reading instead and the only dude he fought he could've used it on doesn't even have a future to read, if we compare him to fellow esper in Ursula tho, it can be used in combat, but it has to be used manually, like he has to actively go "shit, I wanna see this dude's future [insert precog], hmm ok I see". Unlike mind reading which is passive for the most part and something he has to actively try and prevent (it's why he wears the mask, it helps insolate his thoughts), precog is an ability he must take manual action to use, so while it can be used against his foes and in combat, it's also possible to get one over on him if he relies only on the precog.

*Mind Control and Body Puppetry, actually not helpful, Mantis can mind control people, **** he can even make people kill themselves (like when he was gonna have Meryl blow her brains out), but in order to mind control at a whim, he needs a special music (something to do with psychic wavelengths, don't think about it to hard) Without it, in order to mind control he needs to do a psychodive into the minds of his target or it takes awhile (which could be done if he had prep but he doesn't), this isn't exactly easy, aka he can't do it in a match, it isn't feasible against his foe, or most foes without the tune.

*Flight, he can fly, tbh not much to say beyond that, he can float around, go into the sky, maybe play the long range spam game if he wanted, etc. Gives him some decent mobility.

*Projectiles, he has projectiles, not much to say beyond that, he can use TK to toss shit, and he can toss multiple things at once from multiple directions, might be good at limiting ways to dodge him by having multiple attacks come from multiple angles. He also has psychokinetic attacks, which looks and functions exactly like Shadow Ball from pokemon, he just tosses a shadow ball. He also did some gesture attacks at Snake, which moved the controller ig, so he has some attacks that have zero visible or physical mass to avoid.

*TK, now this is the big one, he has some good TK, he can toss shit as mentioned, but that isn't all he can do, and he can even have objects circle him for defense. And his TK is pretty ******* solid, it's Class M as he could, as a child, lift up the thousand ton mecha Sahel and fly it over 4000km. It's not his lead (using tk to toss shit is a lead tho), but if he wanted he could readily try and just immobilize his foes with his TK if pushed into a corner. This chick is Class M tho so she'd be able to resist, though that isn't to say she could do so easily, it'd still slow her down and **** with her, potentially opening her up for attacks.

*Range, he has a 3km range, not much else to say, if things get into a range game, he's quite good to go.

*Illusions. He can make his foe hallucinate, as displayed here. Though as can be seen, it isn't infallible, it can be broken out of as shown when Snake does exactly that. (Then again not everyone can be as chad as Solid Snake).

*Invisibility, Mantis actually has a Stealth Camo on him, this works by refracting light making him optically transparent and completely invisible, Mantis used this to spy on Snake, and in combination with Mantis intang/flight/etc, he managed to net get caught as he was completely invisible, didn't make any noises, and didn't **** with anything (Snake having some enhanced senses to a degree), though his isn't perfect, it can't be used forever, it needs breaks once in awhile, also it can give you super aids (it leaks radiation). Anyway this can be helpful, it enables Mantis to slip away, reposition, **** off, get attacks in without being seen, and so on, but unlike Snake he doesn't abuse this, he mostly uses it to spy, but it's an option he has and one he could very well lean on. Thermal or Infrared counters this, if someone can see in infrared or has thermal goggles or what not, he's visible as his stealth camo only makes him invisible by refracting light, it actually outputs a bit of heat and radiation making him appear more pronounced on those things.

*Teleportation, exactly that, he just teleports around, he can teleport out of the way of attacks, he teleports into different positions, behind his foe, in front of them, away, etc, teleport into an attack and then teleport away, etc. This could be useful in avoiding attacks, getting attacks in, and just being a pain in the ass.

*Fire manip. He can control fire, unlike his illusions above, he actually can manipulate flames, ignoring TmoF exists because of him bestowing power to Volgin, he burned down his hometown and a few other things.

*Intangibility. As it says, Mantis can render himself intangible to phase, but it has to be done manually, he's never shown attacking while doing this, but it can be used to avoid attacks like phasing through gunfire, but if he is caught off guard, isn't ready or flat out attacked before he can do it (Like Venom did in V, using his perception manip he can manage to strike Mantis before he vanishes), it'll of course hit him. Basically, Mantis can weave this into his combat, it's good to avoid attacks he can see coming without risk, and is also used to phase through obstacles, like going through a wall, which is usually how he used it in context. He uses this a lot, but it's a bit sparse, in a fight, he whips it out when he's getting overwhelmed to reposition safely.

*Forcefields, they be that.

*Madness hax, he has madness hax, but it ain't on the profile, I literally just found out he had it like a few days ago when going through lore for the MGS CRT, so you can ignore this if you want, but he can apparently make dudes go mad.

*Skill, he isn't Snake but he was a member of FOXHOUND, which required a whole fuckton of training, skills, physical conditioning and more, which doesn't matter because he doesn't fight physically, doesn't use weapons, doesn't do espionage, etc, but I mean, at least he knows how to and knows it when he sees it? Only really good thing is stamina, he has some good stamina, even as a child, he could exert his powers for who knows how long without rest, when he transported Sahel across the ocean with his mind alone over 4000km (given he was keeping pace with a chopper, probably like 12 hours based on how fast the chopper was and thus how long it'd take for them to get to africa).

Everything else is useless, immortality isn't combat applicable, biomanip is only used once, no idea how it can even be used in a match, and the 4th wall shit? No idea how that would function, like yeah he can cause the TV to black out, he can change your POV, etc, but that does what exactly in universe? Like maybe it could be argued the perception manip where he makes your POV into HIS POV, but besides that, the rest may as well not do anything.
DontTalkDT said:
Then Mantis would have a big advantage if he goes for his mind stuff in-character.
Does he, though?
Click to expand...
It his schtick, in character it's almost all he uses, some of it may as well be passive and some of it IS passive.
Veloxt1r0kore said:
His mind stuff require many thing iirc to make it work
Click to expand...
Mind Control/Puppetry requires the Mantis Hymn but mind reading, precog, tk, psychokinesis, etc is free game.
 
Chariot190 said:
*Mind Control and Body Puppetry, actually not helpful, Mantis can mind control people, **** he can even make people kill themselves (like when he was gonna have Meryl blow her brains out), but in order to mind control at a whim, he needs a special music (something to do with psychic wavelengths, don't think about it to hard) Without it, in order to mind control he needs to do a psychodive into the minds of his target or it takes awhile (which could be done if he had prep but he doesn't), this isn't exactly easy, aka he can't do it in a match, it isn't feasible against his foe, or most foes without the tune.
Click to expand...

Chariot190 said:
It his schtick, in character it's almost all he uses, some of it may as well be passive and some of it IS passive.
Click to expand...
So it is almost all he uses, but not actually helpful?
 
DontTalkDT said:
So it is almost all he uses, but not actually helpful?
Click to expand...
He usually has his mind control tune playing at all times, in the Shadow Moses Incident they just played it all throughout his locale. Not exactly the same situation here.
It's something he uses at every given chance would probably be a better way to word it, he can use it without the Hymn but it's not feasible in a match.

(Mind reading, precog, telepathy, etc he uses at like all times, it's just mind control/body puppetry/possession that he can't use on a whim, though he elads with it when able).
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
Yeah, i'm not going to forced myself challenging a bible lmfao
Click to expand...
I only listed off what he could, I haven't actually made an argument for or against him yet. Plus doesn't this chick have some wacky powers of her own?
 
Yeah, but i'm not the best to explain some of her stuff she can capable do, especially with all of that wall of text i got instantly overwhelmed 😂
 
Chariot190 said:
(Mind reading, precog, telepathy, etc he uses at like all times, it's just mind control/body puppetry/possession that he can't use on a whim, though he elads with it when able).
Click to expand...
Would it be fairer if i gave him access to those abilities? or would that make it pushed too heavily into his favor?
 
Unless his foe has resistance to mind control (and he does have pretty potent mind control, it just has that one hymn caveat but he can control over a hundred people at once and it even lasts a bit after his death too), he'd unironically be able to instantly take over them and have them commit suicide without even looking at them or even needing to be close to them (Which is something he actually has displayed, as mentioned, he was going to have Meryl take her own gun and blow her brains out if Snake didn't stop it b̵y̵ ̵k̵n̵o̵c̵k̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵M̵e̵r̵y̵l̵ ̵o̵u̵t̵ ̵c̵o̵l̵d̵).
Mantis has a lot of shit going for him already, being able to go "lol blow your ******* brains out" the moment the match starts is to much imo.
 
Chariot190 said:
Unless his foe has resistance to mind control (and he does have pretty potent mind control, it just has that one hymn caveat but he can control over a hundred people at once and it even lasts a bit after his death too), he'd unironically be able to instantly take over them and have them commit suicide without even looking at them or even needing to be close to them (Which is something he actually has displayed, as mentioned, he was going to have Meryl take her own gun and blow her brains out if Snake didn't stop it b̵y̵ ̵k̵n̵o̵c̵k̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵M̵e̵r̵y̵l̵ ̵o̵u̵t̵ ̵c̵o̵l̵d̵).
Mantis has a lot of shit going for him already, being able to go "lol blow your ******* brains out" the moment the match starts is to much imo.
Click to expand...
Methinks that makes it a stomp for Mantis, then. Mukuro doesn't have any resistance to mental shit, nor does she have any bullshit luck like her eggy husbando has. Thus, she likely instantly kills herself the moment the match starts due to Mantis' haxes.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Methinks that makes it a stomp for Mantis, then. Mukuro doesn't have any resistance to mental shit, nor does she have any bullshit luck like her eggy husbando has. Thus, she likely instantly kills herself the moment the match starts due to Mantis' haxes.
Click to expand...
Not sure if you noticed, but he literally cant make her kill herself once the fight starts.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Huh, my b. Missed the hymn caveat. So I assume Mantis needs to say a few words to activate his hax?
Click to expand...
Everything is thought based, though he is one for theatrics and likes to show off his powers, but he only did that when his first attempt at killing Snake failed and only because he could afford to as Snake let him talk shit, in a fight he might say some shit but nothing detrimental to himself.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
Mantis FRA.

Also, Mantis is a ghost right? Because in that case Eri would be his worst enemy in the tournament.
Click to expand...
Eri's has a few good opponents they gotta get through to fight Mantis.

(she actually has to get to the semi-finals to fight mantis, assuming mantis doesn't lose to anyone)
 
FarerPurple said:
Eri's has a few good opponents they gotta get through to fight Mantis.

(she actually has to get to the semi-finals to fight mantis, assuming mantis doesn't lose to anyone)
Click to expand...
Yeah I know, it's just that in the case that they end fighting Eri would probably stomp since as necromancer her speciallity is controling the dead and her soul manip would become combat applicable in that case.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
Yeah I know, it's just that in the case that they end fighting Eri would probably stomp since as necromancer her speciallity is controling the dead and her soul manip would become combat applicable in that case.
Click to expand...
yeah... her first oppponent is Hank, so she's already got some big boys she needs to get through.
 
If nobody gives me reason to vote Mukuro I kinda have to, so ye.
 
Well, I can't argue for Mukuro since I don't know her series. So with only Mantis having been given arguments, I will vote Mantis.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
Mantis FRA.

Also, Mantis is a ghost right? Because in that case Eri would be his worst enemy in the tournament.
Click to expand...
No, or well, he is in 4, but we're using MGS1 Mantis. Mostly because MGS4 Mantis, the undead ghost variant is useless without a host and the character he bound himself to doesn't have a profile so we literally can't even if we wanted to.
Though if it was ghost mantis, him being exorcised might have worked, in canon after he reveals himself as a ghost, The Sorrow (the ACTUAL big dick chad of MGS 8-B's) rolls up and BFR's his ass to the afterlife forcefully, effectively exorcising him.
 
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