8-B Brackets Semifinals Part 2

[Sir_Ovens]

The fact that Hunter's arsenal directly counter's Ouma's and the fact that we all can't agree on that.

 

[GyroNutz]

Not really 'directly counters', Ouma has a couple of ways to easily win, just that Hunter's wincon is more likely.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Besides the blitz, Hunter is well equiped to dodge and withstand Ouma's winds.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

ouma stoms i will re post reasons in a moment

 

[First_Witch]

ouma stoms i will re post reasons in a moment

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok so first to Bambu's post:

>Ouma has no resistance

I mean what? Resistance to what?

>Gets Nulled

Bambu y u do dis? For real, every reason im giving is with the "Ouma is nulled". Why bring it up again? It's not like anyone is arguing Ouma resists the null.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

On to why Ouma stomps:

1. Ouma cannot be hurt by Hunter (his insane durability, thick skin, tough body and blazer trait which severely decreases the effectiveness of anything physical). No bullets will ever be able to pierce through Ouma, it's just not gonna happen, not with the insane durability gap and all those layers of resistance on top of it all.

2. Gasses won't work either due to vacuum blades as i said. It's done through raw physical pushes. He can just push the gasses away.

3. Anything Ouma does is 1 shot. He just waves his hand and the wind pressure will kill Hunter. The fact that it's just wind pressure means it will have a huge range and it cannot be blocked + it ignores a very decent amount of durability (can 1 shot 98 ton dudes). Dodge can only get you so far against things that you cannot see (like lack of air) and with that much range. What's the biggest thing Hunter has dodged with his passive dodge.

4. The fact that as Bambu said Ouma gets nulled, means Ouma blitzes to hell and back. As in the hunter cannot even do anything before Ouma just snaps at him with speeds he cannot even see. Due to the null there is literally nothing the hunter can set up before getting blitzed. Coats, gasses, machines etc, he will always be too slow compared to a nulled Ouma.

5. Why do we somehow assume Hunter will just pull everything off quickly enough? Invisibility cloaks (which Ouma has fought like 4 times before and trashed, users like Ikki and Stella who can even create clones on top of that), dodging thingy etc. When will he ever do that? How will that be faster than Ouma swinging his arm?

Anyway for these reasons, we conclude:

-Nothing in hunter's arsenal can actually deal with the level of Durability Ouma has and if anyone brings up bullets that pierce through tier 6 defenses then it just means Hunter either is going to have everything that works on a level beyond 8-B restricted or he's gonna get kicked from the brackets like everyone who had something above 8-B (Ouma included).

-Ouma just blitzes and 1 shots with most things he has.

So it's basically Hunter cannot put Ouma down, where Ouma winks hunter and it's game over.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Hunter can't null the vacuum blades if they're not from air manip.

I mean. It is, it just isn't done via magic. That's literally what he's posted twice now is that they just aren't magic and done through sheer force, which Hunter can still neg as it negs Kushala who does the exact same thing.

Now, I have my laptop again and am not posting from a tiny ******* phone, so let's look at this.

Ouma has no resistance to drugs, paralysis, has no counter to literally any mantle Hunter whips on (Temporal, Windproof, Ghillie, etc, though Windproof will be a non-issue if dragon element is used immediately).

I bring up Ouma getting nulled because that's literally what happens. After all, you're the man that sits there and says "that's just how it works lol" and cannot understand the same thing happening to you? Hunter nulls the air itself being shifted. Kushala creates storms, tornadoes, and pushes blizzards about with his wings by sheer force. Hunter nulls. So yes. Ouma gets nulled.

Now onto your redundant points.

1. I'm not aiming to harm Ouma. Drugs work much faster. That's not to say Hunter can't harm him, they absolutely can, but we don't really need to in this case.

2. Nulled, proven above.

3. No it isn't, Temporal Mantle/Ghillie Mantle/literally just grapple hooking around hard nulls. Since he won't have any of his neat tricks he'll just be swinging about with a sword.

4. Already debunked.

5. Because it's all simple movements. Pull one trigger, Ouma is nulled via Elderseal. Drop one thing, Ouma is asleep. Literally everything but Hunter's actual weapon swings are performed in one swift action.

For these reasons we conclude the validity of Ouma's arguments are bunk and made to put Ouma in a much finer light than he realistically stands in this fight. Hunter can negate 90% of Ouma's arsenal and has a means to counter the other bits or just outright incap him from the start.

For posterity's sake, I will post the current votes since reasoning hasn't truly changed yet.

Ouma: 2 (PsychoMaster, Firephoenixearl)

Hunter: 6 (Sir Ovens, Mr. Bambu, First Witch, TacticalNuke, GyroNutz, CinnabarManx)

Incon: 0

 

[Psychomaster35]

Mm, sure. To speed things up, since its hopeless, changed to Hunter FRA. And that is grace.

Ouma: 1 (Firephoenixearl)

Hunter: 7 (Sir Ovens, Mr. Bambu, First Witch, TacticalNuke, GyroNutz, CinnabarManx, Psychomaster)

Incon: 0

 

[Firephoenixearl]

1. No drugs won't work. If they do not pierce Ouma's skin. Paralysis, etc none of it will work.

2. Nope, not nulled. That's like nulling AP and the laws of physics. I need you to hard prove me everything kusha thingy does is through raw AP and not ability. Which you can't because otherwise "every other dragon" would do the same, via flapping their wings, but since they don't it's just done through air manip.

3. Not with blitz.

4. Im sorry you debunked Ouma blitzing Hunter's blink? Im sorry what?

5. Ouma blitzes all of those actions.

Again it's a stomp in Ouma's favor. Gasses will get passively undone the moment Ouma gets nulled due to the wind pressure.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Grace begins, then.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Psych

Don't count votes yet, we're still arguing stomps here.

And literally all of those votes were casted the moment we said "he can bypass the barrier".

And we still need Dargoo to explain why he allowed someone who negs tier 6 stuff into this.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Now, my closing statement.

"Looks like Omuas chance of winning was BLOWN away by the winds".

Now onto the next round please, Dargoo.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

1. Gas, Earl. Gas.

2. Already spoken about and told you why it would work, you simply saying "nuh-uh" doesn't work.

3. See 4.

4. See Witchy.

5. See 4.

Right-o.

 

[GyroNutz]

I mean. It is, it just isn't done via magic. That's literally what he's posted twice now is that they just aren't magic and done through sheer force, which Hunter can still neg as it negs Kushala who does the exact same thing.

It'd be the same as Hunter nulling the air pressure from one of Saitama's punches, not through some elemental ability. If Kushala does something similar to what I said, then I'll concede.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

1. He resists paralysis by nature. Also gases get blown away the moment ouma gets nulled due to the release of air.

2. No you didn't Gyro also doesn't approve of the "he negs AP" all you're doing is saying "he can" but no arguments to prove why he negged that.

4. No. Ouma bltzes with speed amp, which Witchy said "will work".

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It'd be the same as Hunter nulling the air pressure from one of Saitama's punches, not through some elemental ability. If Kushala does something similar to what I said, then I'll concede.

I'd still like some proof that Kushala does AP and Hunter nulls.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It is both elemental abilities (it can breathe out something like a bolt of air pressure) and physical attacks (flapping its wings generates groups of tornadoes).

Literally just look at the boss fight videos of Kushala on YouTube.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

physical attacks (flapping its wings generates groups of tornadoes).

That's just air manip via flapping wings though. No other dragon does that, even ones with comparable AP. That's the issue.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Kushala Daora literally causes natural disasters by existing. So yes, Kushala's wind manip far outclasses Ouma's.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

And yours is just air manip via physical force, which is literally the same thing.

And... actually, others do generate tornadoes, Kushala is just the most recent one. If you want a low tier one that also creates air pressure stuff, Paolumu works. Also comes from current gen.

The point is, what you're describing can be nulled, we have provided examples with searchable visible evidence.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Kushala Daora literally causes natural disasters by existing. So yes, Kushala's wind manip far outclasses Ouma's.

Yes the wind manip does, not arguing that. What im saying is, Hunter doesn't negate AP and world physics. It's just heavily out of context. I love how the argument is like "he flaps so that means he did it with AP", air benders wave their hands, doesn't mean they manipulate air with AP. There has to be a statement he did it like that. There is none here.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

What do you mean? How blatant is creating tornados by flapping your wings? Kushala isn't using chi or magic to create those winds, its just strong enough to do it by physically existing and moving around.

Heck, the main schtick of Elder Dragons is that their existence causes natural disasters. They physically cause them.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Some guys manipulate other elements in Monsterhunter so don't bring up "everything is natural".

He has shown wind manip with a lot of other things, and no other dragon can cause the same wind manip with wing flap. What i there to say it isn't just him manipulating wind again? What are you gonna say next? Temari's fan is physical wind moving? Yes she moves her fan but it's done through other means.

 

[Moritzva]

I mean, it's not really new knowledge that Bambu's characters are traditionally very strong. The Hunter is another one of those guys who borders on being too strong for Brackets.

But so does Ouma and especially "I-Have-A-Giant-EE-Blade", so all's fair in the end.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Except half of Hunter's stuff trash tier 6 beings. Apparently all his bullets, gasses, drugs, null, work on tier 6 beings. That's not in the rules.

 

[GyroNutz]

Gasses, drugs and null working on tier 6 beings isn't anything ridiculous, considering the null is limited afaik to elemental abilities. If the bullets pierce tier 6 beings, then that is a problem.

That being said, Ouma is practically invincible when it comes to haxless standards so I don't know how fair he is either. Although he technically doesn't break any of the rules...

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Gasses, drugs and null working on tier 6 beings isn't anything ridiculous, considering the null is limited afaik to elemental abilities. If the bullets pierce tier 6 beings, then that is a problem.

Null maybe not, but:

Tank tier 6 winds and vacuum.

Can negate air moving on a tier 6 level

Gasses can work on beings with metabolism far beyond normal 8-B.

Drugs can weaken 6-B AP

Traps can trap 6-B beings

and ofc all bullets apparently pierces tier 6 beings.

This is like a skull knights but instead of EE, he has everything on a tier 6.

 

[Psychomaster35]

So... would that be disqualification due to mentions of illegal tier stuff above 8-B?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

The bullets pierce tier 6 creatures, but their actual AP is crap against them; at least the 8-B equipment is.

Also Hunter is still 8-B. The guy can still be hit by AP better than his dura. Ouma has a win-con, but Hunter far outclasses.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So... would that be disqualification due to mentions of illegal tier stuff above 8-B?

Either that or Dargoo comes up with something for this.

Ouma for example while he has things beyond his tier it was all restricted:

His 8-A AP

His 8-A stat amp

His 8-A wind defense abilities

His Low 7-C wind attack

(his speed but that's for equalization purposes so it's understandable since a lot of people got that)

While literally all of Hunter's arsenal goes to tier 6 but no one brought that up at the start. So it's really up to Dargoo.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The bullets pierce tier 6 creatures, but their actual AP is crap against them; at least the 8-B equipment is.

Bullets cannot cause tier 6 destruction dude. Just the fact that it can pierce 6-B defense without dura neg (if it had dura neg it would work on beyond 6-B) means the bullet has 6-B AP. Just cus it cannot do enviromental destruction doesn't mean it's not to tier 6.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Also I would like to remind everyone that the mantles are absolutely crap against physical attacks and does jack to stop them besides Temporal. This is a special case where Ouma's main method of attack is something the Windproof mantle specifically negs. As someone who plays Monster Hunter I can assure you, Windproof is useless in fights.

As for the other 6-B stuff, they are all avoidable to much lower tiers. Whether or not those lower tier guys can withstand them or not is debatable.

Like bullets can be dodged. Tranq bombs can be avoided. Traps can be avoided. Hunter doesn't stomp if his opponent has very real ways of winning.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Bullets cannot cause tier 6 destruction dude. Just the fact that it can pierce 6-B defense without dura neg (if it had dura neg it would work on beyond 6-B) means the bullet has 6-B AP. Just cus it cannot do enviromental destruction doesn't mean it's not to tier 6.

We don't give AP to piercing attacks. That's why Red vs Blue was downgraded from 8-B to 9-A. Piercing damage is calc stacking.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

> Tier 6

Nothing Hunter has is tier 6 in this key. What he does have is drugs which don't matter on tier, the occasional paralysis trap, some power null, etc.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So what you're saying its, it's ok if you use other tier 6 stuff as long as there is a really small chance to avoid them right? The bullets can be a literal machinegun but apparently there is a slim to none chance of dodging everything so it's fair right?

So basically you're saying i can name Akabane Kuroudo for the 8-B brackets cus there is a really small chance you can put up a good fight and he acknowledges you and doesn't law you to oblivion?

Or Misogi Kumagawa cus you can put him to sleep via Hunter's darts eh?

Ok gonna have to keep that in mind in the next brackets. I wonder if it's ok to name Desperado Ikki or Edelweiss for the 8-A brackets cus there is an extremely small chance that you don't get affected by the passives.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean, it's not really new knowledge that Bambu's characters are traditionally very strong. The Hunter is another one of those guys who borders on being too strong for Brackets.
But so does Ouma and especially "I-Have-A-Giant-EE-Blade", so all's fair in the end.

I try to add as much versatility as possible if I must add someone to brackets, boyo. If you can't have one cover-all hax, then cover all paths with other stuff.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

> Tier 6
Nothing Hunter has is tier 6 in this key. What he does have is drugs which don't matter on tier, the occasional paralysis trap, some power null, etc.

Yes those, his wind resistance, his bullets which pierce tier 6 durability. Nothing much. Drugs do matter on tier actually. You don't drug Goku with the same drug that almost killed a 10-B. Ouma's whole body is not normal (steel bones, muscle fibres, nerves etc), but i cannot be arguing Ouma resists the drugs, not when they can weaken tier 6 beings.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

So what you're saying its, it's ok if you use other tier 6 stuff as long as there is a really small chance to avoid them right? The bullets can be a literal machinegun but apparently there is a slim to none chance of dodging everything so it's fair right?
So basically you're saying i can name Akabane Kuroudo for the 8-B brackets cus there is a really small chance you can put up a good fight and he acknowledges you and doesn't law you to oblivion?

Or Misogi Kumagawa cus you can put him to sleep via Hunter's darts eh?

Ok gonna have to keep that in mind in the next brackets. I wonder if it's ok to name Desperado Ikki or Edelweiss for the 8-A brackets cus there is an extremely small chance that you don't get affected by the passives.

What do you even mean? There's no small chance here. Hunter can be soundly defeated by any other 8-B. You just have to not fall under the one of the prerequisites of his mantles. Heccing Wolf could have been in this tournement and he beat Hunter fair and square.

 

[First_Witch]

Woudnt Wolf slap most of the Brackets fighter though, outside of the current top dogs?